Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Wiley on March 13, 2014, 04:46:49 am
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I obtained a piece of wood from a friend with a sawmill. It was an edge cut destined for the fire pit or the smoker. He had sawn up some white oak for a bowyer who just wanted dimensional lumber for lamination/backings apparently. I believe the ends were sealed as there was no drying cracks on the ends. The piece of wood is around 1.75"-2" thick, edge off a quartersawn slab. and probably around 8 feet long at this point. The whole thing has a nice gentle reflex to it. Since being cut it has been outside but off the ground and out of the rain. Outer bark removed and i'm working on getting it down to hard wood. No bug holes or rot that I can see in it. I got it for free, so if it fails all that will be lost is some of my time.
From what I understand about white oak is that it likes to take set, but responds great to heat treating. I know if I don't get it dry enough and keep it that way it will take set even with a great tiller, but getting it too dry will make it brittle. If it survives tillering to the point of sealing, I don't think it will ever get too dry in our climate stored indoors. My friend with the sawmill down the road told me all the white oak in his house hits equilibrium at 8%, the stuff outside at 14%. Anyone know the ideal moisture content for sealing a white oak bow, I am assuming its probably a bit lower than 8%?
Beyond that, I believe I have enough material to make most types of flatbow from this piece of wood. I am undecided on which design to go with, and very open to suggestions. What type of design has worked the best for those of you that have worked with white oak?
Any other design considerations like trapping the back? Or does it perform better with a rectangular cross section? I would love to hear any other comments or suggestions as to what to do with this piece of wood.
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HRhodes from Al does quite a few white oak stave bows. His success is the reason I tried some white oak lumber on a couple with great success. I have also used white oak as a backer. I picked up as straight grained as I could find to make my bows and backers with. I never really checked the moisture, but have had good success with little set as I do generally mildly heat treat the belly. My designs so far have been a Mollegabet with a stiff handle with a rawhide backing. Also a bendy handle with a pyramid taper and linen back and several ipe and massuranduba bows with white oak backing strips.
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A white oak backed ipe is definitely on my to-do list. Will probably be one of my next lumber based bows.
I hope I can do a clean enough job of the debarking that I can get away without having to back it. The piece of wood i'm working with is so long and one size is much deeper than the other. What I trim off I may attempt to make a little bend in the handle bow while the larger piece is drying, practice heat treating on it, back it with something. Tillering a really short bow will be good practice, and apparently white oak is pretty hard to break.
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Been scraping and thinking about it and it looks to me like I could get two bows from this piece of wood if I go with a bendy handle design on one or both of them. Need to mark out the band-saw cuts, and one of them will have to be backed. Leaning towards making them both bend in the handle simply because I haven't done a bendy handle yet.
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I made my first bendy handle by accident which turned out pretty well, but a couple of subsequent attempts bent a little too much in the handle. My first was a 66 in hickory backed ipe. I left 14 inches in the middle of the bow for the riser section. When the handle popped off, I smoothed out the transition and that extra thickness in the handle made for a great circular bend with the handle barely bending at full draw. When I made the subsequent bows I started my tapers (width & thickness) too close to the handle which promoted more early bending and giving the bow less cast. The area near the handle should be saved for last IMHO. Here is a full draw pic of that first bow.
(http://traditionalbowman.com/hwdphotos/uploads/62/2/zpeynsnfgc70rn.jpg)
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Wiley, I've made a lot of bows from quarter sawed "slabs". They work great. Wait till you bandsaw out your front profile, then look at the edges if the back has a mild crown and you have 1/2" of thickness on the skinny edge it is more than enough for a bow in the 50# class (or more depending on overall length)
Here in Northern Michigan we got humidity but in my experience I have not had any trouble with white oak and humidity, I do not heat treat my bows either (for what that may be worth) It will make you a fine self bow.
You may wish to ask him what species of white oak it is, unless you know. That will help decide on your bows' shape and it bend profile.
rich
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Listen to Rich (Half Eye). He is a master of the bendy handle bows, for sure.
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im working on a white oak flatbow for a friend right now, down to floor tiller, and its finishing drying in my furnace room.
I'm hoping to get it to 9% before i finish it and seal it.
The guy i bought the stave off of has made many white oak flat bows, and he told me he's had the best luck making stiff
handled flat bows, 2" at the fades, and taper to 3/8. if your looking to get higher poundage, i'd probably extend that 2" for
maybe 2/3s of the bow length. Im only making a 30# bow, so i went with 1 3/4".
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It sure is a pleasure to work though! smells awesome
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I believe it is a true white oak, Quercus alba. It definitely seem the sort of tough like white oak should be.
So your saying cut it about half as thick as it is wide on what will be the back?
I think I might aim for 40-45# on this one, being ok with it even if it comes out a bit light.
I've been to michigan during the summer more than once. The humidity seems mild compared to ours, even in the vicinity of Lake Michigan. It gets quite muggy here. Although I suppose it might be the milder temperatures that time a year that make it seem less oppressive.
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White oak is a very good bow wood. It is not as sensitive to moisture as hickory but not quit as resistant to breaking.
I don't know your draw length or poundage wanted.
Bend in the handle bow will do well.
Jawge
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Going to shoot for 40-45lbs at 26" on the longer bow maybe an inch farther just for good measure.
I took the tape measure to it and the piece of wood I'm working with is 2" wide.
I will probably have a good 5 feet of length to cut off the main piece and back with something. Will probably be a lighter poundage as the starting piece won't be quite as thick. For a bend in the handle I feel like 26" is possible with 60" of length. I know a shorter bow is harder to tiller, but the wood was free and this is more practice aiming for success. If I break it, I will try to figure out why it broke, and try not to do that again.
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Well, I was going to suggest 1 3/8" wide, 64-66" long. I won't suggest that though. :)
Remember the wood has been in the weather for who knows how long and whitewoods are not fond of "the weather".
Jawge
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I'm aware, but plan to continue anyways. I have access to around 70 acres of mixed hardwood forest that I can harvest some fresh wood from and plan to once the sap gets running a bit more and stored it a lot more ideally. As much white oak and hickory as I could ever want. This stuff is simply easy and available. As I said before if it breaks, I won't be very upset.
I'm thinking about going with a pyramid taper on them, seems simple enough to tiller. For the longer section that will have a growth ring on the back I will go for the 65-66" long. May just back both of them for due diligence because of the unknown storage. But as far as white oak goes, it's got a better rot resistance than most white woods. The wood still seems sound as far as I can tell though.
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I have some white oak beams from an old barn. I'm gonna cut em up for backing. All old growth real tight rings. 15$ for a 16' 3x4. What a dummy! I also got a 3x8x16'of tiger oak for 15$ Madey fiancé a table. That board was tight as they get
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This is that 3x8, what's left of it. It made a good table top. What ya think?
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Also my glue line sucked. But it's still very strong
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I think any design works well with white oak. My knee jerk reaction is to agree with Jawge about going 1 3/8 wide at the fades. I built some with 2" fades in my first attempts with w.o. and found them to be grossly overbuilt. I do feel that heat treating a good bit of reflex is a big help - maybe 2 -3 inches before tillering. I have never broken a white oak bow and have made some short bows with some extreme bend. White oak can be prone to taking some set, but if you are careful with your tillering and give it a good deep heat treatment, white oak makes as good a bow as any wood. I think it is as durable as hickory and as easy to steam/heat bend recurves as osage. Pretty good bow wood all the way around. Keep us posted with how it works out.
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From what I understand about white oak is that it likes to take set, but responds great to heat treating. I know if I don't get it dry enough and keep it that way it will take set even with a great tiller, but getting it too dry will make it brittle. If it survives tillering to the point of sealing, I don't think it will ever get too dry in our climate stored indoors.
As far as taking set goes, most any wood will go there. The nice thing about WO is its strenght and durability. I like it becasue of the open grain it soaks up the glue nicely. Great for backing. If it's a little to dry give it a coat of mineral oil, at least it will soak into the outer grain perimiters.
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I will hrhodes. If this one does't work out there will be many more white oak attempts in the near future. I've seen a couple of your white oak bows. You get some very impressive bends out of some real short pieces of WO. .
Progress is slow at the moment, but soon our basement will become a well tooled bow/arrow/general woodworking shop, once that is accomplished work speed will likely increase. Been working on getting a arrow shaft jig prototyped. Got some fairly decent pieces of shafts, need to add some finishing guides to reduce wobble as the test pieces spun themselves apart but hopefully soon the prototype will be ready to be put together with some sturdier materials, bolted down and I can start making some good shafts.
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I was suggesting a bend in the handle bow with those dims where the handle is h=full width narrowing to 1/2" nocks. Jawge