Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: half eye on March 11, 2014, 08:26:18 pm
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Hey fellas,
Was taking a break from some recent NA bows, and ran across my chart from the U.S. Forest Service. I must have read that list too many times to count, but this time I noticed the numbers for Yellow Birch....Holy Cow!!!
I had 2 staves and 3 "boards" that I cut and milled a few years ago and just never got around to working till now. The 5 bows range from 48 inches to 59 inches with draw lengths from 25" to 29" and weights from 44# up to 56/57#. All the bows are rectangular section, bend through the handle bows. 1 bow is straight single curve (w/ flipped tips) the other 4 are 5curves with varying amounts of initial set-back and tip-flip.
This wood is really something, and I dont know why it isn't used more often. There are 4 full draw pics, the bows on the rack (while building) and a chart from the numbers given by the Forest service. I included the regular bow woods they had listed for comparative purposes so you can see how the Birch compares head-to-head.
I'm sorry there is no listing for Osage or Hop-Hornbeam as this list covers "economically important commercial woods" but there is enough to give you a good idea like I said.
Hope you find the info useful, and if any other pics needed please let me know.
NOTE: The only "problem" I have run into is the way the Birch accepts stains.
rich
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Everyone of those bows are sweet!
Patrick
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Its good to know that birch works as a decent bow wood. Its on my to try list b/c I don't like following the norm, there is a lot of yellow birch where I live, and i just really like birch trees.
Those are some really killer looking bows
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Nice looking bows. Never even knew there was a yellow birch - doesn't grow in my area to my knowledge. We don't have the snow you have either!
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I see you are still battling the snow, Rich. It sure doesn't look like it has slowed you down any. Those are some sweet bows, my friend. :)
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Those look great Rich but ya know we want more pictures. ;D
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Fellas, thought I'd trow in a pic of the tree's bark, it's pretty easy to spot.
Thanks Ken,
B2, thanks and will shoot some more tomorrow
rich
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You been busy Rich! You must be tougher than woodpecker lips to make all them fine bows after scooping all that snow! I'm getting sore just looking at the pictures! Lol! I have to agree with Greg, more pics would be cool! Josh
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Great bends as always rich, so how prevalent is yellow birch in your neck of the woods, bub
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Vary similar to HHB .(first cousins ;)) It seems to be a lot harder from my experience. Difficult to dent ,even. If you can buy Birch lumber at your local merchant, it's likely going to be Yellow Birch. Birch flooring, cabinets and plywood are almost always Yellow Birch as well.As always there is going to be variance within the species, but generally speaking ,it's damn tough stuff!
Great looking bows ,Rich! I know what you mean about the stain. In the furniture industry , it's usually coloured with tinted spray lacquers and such. You could try dyes . I use the stuff from Lee Valley. Good stuff!
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I'm gonna be on the look out for some of those trees, I know I've seen some somewhere around here before. I look forward to seeing more pics of those bows Rich.
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Nice lookin bows Rich!! As is always the case ;) What kind of issues are you having with the stains not taking? Is it real spotty? Some areas ending up darker than others? If that's the case, wipe it down with paint thinner right before you stain it. That depends on your type of stain though. If you are using primitive stains, that may not be compatible.
Tattoo Dave
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Nice bows as always, Rich. We have yellow birch here but only at high elevation(5000' or so) but lots of black birch at lower elevations.
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Nice bends on all of them Rich. I am continually impressed by your work. Don't see many birch around here but there are some along the creeks, no idea what species they are though.
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Tremendous variation in this wood. I cut a promising one a number of years ago dried it and then bent a slat as if floor tillering. It immediately chrysaled along the length.
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Not sure I would have ever thought of using it,but those turned out very nice.Nice work as usual. :) Looks like you may have got a little snow. ??? ;) :)
Pappy
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Nice work Rich (as always).
Dunno if we get that Yellow Birch in the UK. Maybe if I pee an some silver Birch it will turn it?
How do you get that white background for your pics? ;)
Del
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Nice bows Rich.
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Rich I like the looks of the bow in F.D. pic number 3. What are the stats and profile of it? More pics of that one please.
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I got a large stash of rough sawn yellow birch cut 10 years ago or more.
Rich can you show the back profile and give a few dimensions?
I assume that it needs to be abit wider...I never make bendy handle bows, but alot of backed bows.
Nice bends in those bows too!
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Rich, you nailed it again... 8) Never would have considered that wood... 8)
Don
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I will get you fellas closer pictures and measurements this afternoon, for sure.
Josh, dont know about tough, but I can tell ya that cabin fever sucks big-time >:D
bubby, badly....it's not super plentiful, but does seem to grow in stands where the ground is more wet than the hill tops and ridges
Lostarrow, yes it is, around here it's not held in high regard by the loggers, who will run it down with their skidders to get to the maple and ash. Once on the ground it doesn't do very well at all.
Thank you to all for the nice comments, but it was passing on the idea of the wood, not just some more bendies,eh?
Eastern, Jon will get the dimensions and close up picks posted as soon as the morning honey-do's are done.
Dell, It might be the very same tree as some folks around here call this tree "silver birch" cause of the bark color. I'll get the scientific name up with the next post.
Pappy, Dell.....that's what 170" of snow cover looks like after 2 days above 32....now it's going back to minus digits again for a while.....I'm thinking that spring may arrive around July ....maybe ::)
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Silver Birch is a different tree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betula_alleghaniensis
Here's a pic of the nice sinew-backed one that Marc made a number of years ago.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Marc-St-Louis/media/Sinew%20Backed%20Bows/Yellow%20Birch%20Recurve/FullDrawBack.jpg.html?sort=4&o=3
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You can see from the map that was on the info page PatM posted where I live is in the very southern most part of yellow birch range but here it is only at higher altitudes. Mountain Ash(Roan) is another tree that only grows at high altitudes here.
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Those look very good to me Rich! I love seeing different wood used. Yellow Birch is one I'd like to try someday. Congratulations on those.
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Fellas, here are some more pics and dimensions:
The scalloped Chippewa bow is 53" , 1-3/16" wide at the grip ( parallel 8") , 1-1/16" mid-limb and 3/4" tips.....thickness is 5/8" at grip, 7/16" mid-limb, 5/16" at tips. Flat backed stave 45# @ 26"
The yellow bow is quarter sawn board 58" long and 49# @ 28"...grip is parallel for 10" and is 1-1/4" wide, 1" @ mid-limb, 11/16 @ tip. It is 5/8 thick at the grip, 1/2" at mid limb and 1/4" at the tip.
The small white bow is a concave back stave, 53" and 44/45# @ 23" tillered to 26"....10" parallel and 1-1/8" wide @ grip, 1" wide midlimb, and 5/8" at the tips. It is 5/8" thick at the grip, 1/2"+ at midlimb, and 3/8" at the tips.
The darkbow (last) w/o string (qs board) is to show the stain coloration of the birch. Bow is 60", 55# @ 28" and is tillered out to 30" ( specs that my friend wanted) This bow is parallel for 12" and 1-1/4" wide at the grip, 1-1/16" midlimb, and 3/4" at the tips. The thickness is 3/4" grip, 9/16" mid-limb and 3/8 at the tips.
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rest of the pics
Pat M beat to the distribution map and name ( Betula alleghaniensis) but also has the common names of gray birch, silver birch, and swamp birch. The silver birch in Europe is like our white paper birch so dont believe it is the same.
Anything else please advise.
rich
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rich
good lookin bows as allways
I got a big yeller birch in the back yard
might hafta cut that sucker.
Kevin
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KH, it'll make ya some very fine and tough bows sir.....
rich
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All those bows are awesome! I made a recurve from a yellow birch board once. I actually thought it was hickory when I first bought it. I really like the wood. That bow shot and still shoots really nice but has developed some crystals. I'm not blaming the wood. I'm not sure my tillering skills where up to snuff when I made it or perhaps it's not the best design for that wood. I have a couple of others in the works. I hope they turn out half as good as yours. I think with good design and good tillering it's good bow wood as you have well shown. Thanks for sharing. Awesome as usual.
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Love those bows! The coral snake bow is pretty sweet too!
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What a great line of bows. Like all of them. I admire your work, Rich!
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hi rich, some really nice looking bows. i was wondering if you ever went to a site www .wood-database. com. they have all the info on all woods and there characteristics. just a little sample:
Common Name(s): Osage Orange, Horse Apple, Hedge Apple, Bois d’arc
Scientific Name: Maclura pomifera
Distribution: South-central United States
Tree Size: 50-60 ft (15-18 m) tall, 1-2 ft (.3-.6 m) trunk diameter
Average Dried Weight: 54 lbs/ft3 (855 kg/m3)
Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .76, .86
Janka Hardness: 2,760 lbf (12,280 N)
Modulus of Rupture: 18,650 lbf/in2 (128.6 MPa)
Elastic Modulus: 1,689,000 lbf/in2 (11.64 GPa)
Crushing Strength: 9,380 lbf/in2 (64.7 MPa)*
*Estimated crushing strength from data of green wood at: 5,810 lbf/in2 (40.1 MPa)
Shrinkage: Volumetric: 9.1%
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Common Name(s): Hophornbeam, American Ironwood
Scientific Name: Ostrya virginiana
Distribution: Eastern North America
Tree Size: 40-60 ft (12-18 m) tall, 1-2 ft (.3-.6 m) trunk diameter
Average Dried Weight: 49 lbs/ft3 (785 kg/m3)
Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .63, .79
Janka Hardness: 1,860 lbf (8,270 N)
Modulus of Rupture: 14,100 lbf/in2 (97.2 MPa)
Elastic Modulus: 1,700,000 lbf/in2 (11.72 GPa)
Crushing Strength: 7,760 lbf/in2 (53.5 MPa)
Shrinkage: Radial: 8.2%, Tangential: 9.6%, Volumetric: 18.6%, T/R Ratio: 1.2
**********************************************************************
Common Name(s): Live Oak, Southern Live Oak
Scientific Name:Quercus virginiana
Distribution: Southeastern United States
Tree Size: 40-60 ft (12-18 m) tall, 4-6 ft (1.2-1.8 m) trunk diameter
Average Dried Weight: 63 lbs/ft3 (1,000 kg/m3)
Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .80, 1.00
Janka Hardness: 2,680 lbf (12,920 N)
Modulus of Rupture: 18,220 lbf/in2 (125.6 MPa)
Elastic Modulus: 1,960,000 lbf/in2 (13.52 GPa)
Crushing Strength: 8,810 lbf/in2 (60.8 MPa)
Shrinkage:Radial: 6.6%, Tangential: 9.5%, Volumetric: 14.7%, T/R Ratio: 1.4
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Good looking bunch of bows Rich! The only birch we have around here are the ones that lean out over the creeks and rivers and we call them river birch so Im guessing those arent the same as yellow birch. Oh well nice bends you got on those sticks.
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I had just recently made a bow from yellow birch. It was a screamer that came in heavier and faster than I expected. I was pleasantly surprised with how well I liked it. I'd made one before that too, but that was when my skills were pretty lacking and I didn't have the experience to know what I was working with.
I was going to make a thread just like this with my bow as the poster child for yellow birch. But then as I was getting ready to take some pictures I was excerising the bow and it popped a splinter on the back. The crown was too aggressive I think. Lesson learned.
But I'm glad someone as experienced as you can corroborate the same things I had found about this bow wood.
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Looks like maybe this might be useful 8)
4g-m, thanks for the info, will get that into the mix here asap.
Hey Okie, glad ya aint gone belly up, bud >:D
slack, Never seen your bow, but all these are some sort of rectangular section with the sharp corners "mildly" rounded off. I have found that you get good results if you match the belly and back profiles that is flat/flat or low crown/low crown. The only exception in the posted bows is the concave back stave and that belly is flat and carefully tillered.
The map below is the "Native Range" of yellow birch, but I do believe that it's grown other places maybe as an ornamental or some such. There is also a picture of the "inner-bark" so ya can see just how thick it is (edge of a quarter sawn homemade board)
really hope you all get a chance to at least try this stuff.
rich
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I love your bows Rich. These are no exception. Great job man. I wish we had some yellow birch around here. All we've got is water birch I think. Grows pipe strait and long. I'll have to try some sometime. I know it's nowhere near the density though. Great bows I really like the first one :)
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Very nice. I have a yellow birch rough sawn board that I am planning on turning into a pair of skis. After that... maybe there will be enough left for a board bow! :-\
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Those look great Rich. The only birch we have is river birch. I haven't tried it yet, but it is on my list of woods to try.
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Good morning HE,
To use the info I posted earlier about the wood data base to be use full one must read the article that I will provided below. Tommy
by Eric Meier
Disclaimer: I am neither a bowyer/archer nor a materials scientist/engineer. The data and ideas presented in this article are by no means meant to be considered authoritative or precisely correlated to real-world situations. The purpose of the article is simply to foster imagination and exploration in the area of bow woods and what does/does not constitute a good bow wood.
Archery bows present a somewhat unique challenge in finding the right requirements for the best wood. In the simplest and crudest terms possible, the wood should be able to bend, but not break. With all of the data available on the Wood Database, there’s no single measurement that directly indicates a wood’s ability to bend easily without breaking. Instead, it is primarily a combination of two values: the wood’s modulus of elasticity (also known as MOE), and the modulus of rupture (also known as MOR).
Again, dealing in the simplest terms:
The modulus of elasticity (MOE) measures how easily a wood will bend, (the higher the number, the more stubborn and stiff it will be).
The modulus of rupture (MOR) measures how easily the wood will break, (the higher the numer, the harder it is to break or rupture).
In terms of looking at the raw mechanical data of woods, the best bow woods tend to be those that have a low MOE and a high MOR. (Stated another way, the best bow woods tend to be those that will bend easily, and not break.) It’s of little advantage if a given wood scores well in one area, and poorly in another (i.e., a very low MOE or a very high MOR). What is most important, regardless of how low the MOE may be, or how high the MOR may be, is the ratio of the MOE to the MOR; it must be easy to bend AND hard to break.
Given the rationale and requirements, an equation can be formed to roughly assess a wood’s suitability for bow use: (MOR/MOE) * 1000. (The added factor of 1000 is simply to bring the number to a more manageable size and avoid dealing with tiny .00xx decimal values.) For lack of a better term, this ratio will simply be referred to as the wood’s “Bow Index.”
Analyzing all the woods in the Wood Database for their Bow Index, the following results are obtained:
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Got my radar up for some yellow birch now, not sure when or if I'll run into any of this stuff around here but the sharp handsaw is always in the truck. Nice bows all around Rich, you know I like your style.
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Thanks again fellas,
Badly Bent, Idaho Matt, Howard.....got 3 sticks settin in the work room (shop and shed are still buried)2 are 72" and the other is shorter. Please PM your address's and I'll give these to you, maybe you could cover the shipping? That is if you dont mind working with a homemade board. The broad surfaces are planed flat both sides.
4give me: The way I utilize my charts is by direct comparison, in other words I dont really care what the scientific importance is in the actual numbers....I can directly compare a "new" wood to ones that I know are good bow woods and have a fair sense of it's suitability and how to approach the project. The static bending dynamics are directly involved in suitability for bow wood so by comparing the unknown to the known and using the numbers (metric or inch/pounds) as the gauge, I get a starting point.
rich
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Heck yeah Rich, I'll give it a go. Gotta head out right now but I'll send ya a pm when I get back and have a few minutes to do some of my one finger typing. ;)
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Rich, your bows are truly works of art. You are not only a talented bowyer but an artist as well.
Jawge
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Rich, your bows are truly works of art. You are not only a talented bowyer but an artist as well.
Jawge
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George, thank you sir, I admire your bows and your straight forward approach to the entire process. It's good to know a stabilizing influence like you, sir 8)
rich
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always like seeing your bows and posts.
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Just saw your offer Rich - sending you a PM.
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Greg, Idaho and Howard I can't wait to see what you do with the yellow birch...
Don
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I do love the way the bark smells and tastes for that matter......mmmmmm minty
Sweet looking bows as always!