Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DuBois on February 17, 2014, 09:44:18 pm

Title: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on February 17, 2014, 09:44:18 pm
It seems that most of the sinew bows I see are bendy handle (maybe I haven't been paying attention).
I am wondering about sinewing a stiff handled bow.

If the length is say 62" but 9" of that is stiff handle, then wouldn't it benefit from sinew?

Also, couldn't it be sinewed from above fades to below the tips to reduce the amount of sinew needed or would you always go over the handle, regardless of it being stiff?
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Newindian on February 17, 2014, 10:09:09 pm
So long as it's a thin layer it could work out right, I've heared that a sinew backing needs to go across the handle in one peiece
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: hunterbob on February 17, 2014, 10:12:06 pm
I have seen blackhawk only sinew the working part of the limbs before.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: osage outlaw on February 17, 2014, 10:13:20 pm
PatB did a build-a-long on his stiff handled sinew backed bow.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,38869.150.html
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Mark Smeltzer on February 17, 2014, 10:18:47 pm
That would probably work on a bow of that design. I have sinewed lots of stiff handled bows (not 9" though) that is a lot of non working bow for me.
I would sinew the handle too, it wont slow up the bow any and wont lift if it's all one piece.
That being said, I havent had sinew lift on me and I normally stop a few inches from the tips.
You just have to make sure the sinew is being stressed enough to make it worth having on the back of the bow.

Mark
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: PatM on February 17, 2014, 11:27:57 pm
It will benefit if you reflex it and draw it further. It's better to just go across the handle and  reduce the thickness there but it helps to have the sinew bridge the handle to tie everything together.
 I'm sure you'll get a few people still telling you that sinewing a 62 inch bow is a waste of time. Most of them will be basing that on something they read in a book one time rather than real world testing. ;)
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Pappy on February 18, 2014, 07:40:27 am
I made a 62 inch Osage take down with just the limbes done to about 4 inches
from the tip to the fads,worked out great. :) May be to long for sinew but I liked it just fine.  ;):)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 18, 2014, 09:16:09 am
If the length is say 62" but 9" of that is stiff handle, then wouldn't it benefit from sinew?


Man I hope so! Or I just wasted time sinewing a yew bow to those exact dimensions.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Pat B on February 18, 2014, 10:45:49 am
I made 2 or 3 sinew backed bows that I did not cross the handle with the sinew and in all three cases the bows took set in the handle area. I like to make handles small and to bend slightly at full draw so I my case having the sinew go across the handle area, connecting both limbs worked better. Leaving the sinew off the non-bending tips was never a issue for me.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 18, 2014, 10:51:14 am
That sinew needs to form a matrix from tip to tip regardless of handle design, IMO. Even if that handle doesn't bend, its still anchoring the limb and tying it all together.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Pat B on February 18, 2014, 10:52:12 am
That my thoughts too Pearlie.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on February 18, 2014, 11:49:30 am
Ok, thanks everybody.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on February 22, 2014, 08:49:55 am
Design is with no recurves and about 2" reflex. With stiff handle would that still utilize the sinew enough to be worthwhile?
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 22, 2014, 09:07:00 am
I would prefer to start with 5-6" of reflex myself.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on February 22, 2014, 09:56:51 am
OK, thanks PD,
I am debating sinew vs rawhide and have been leaning to hide. This decides it then.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 22, 2014, 12:14:37 pm
I've sinewed plenty o stiff handle static recurves in the 60" to 62" range.  I prefer to go across the handle even when it's only 1 course same with the tips.  As PD says I would put in at least 5" of reflex, do it before you apply the sinew.  Apply the sinew so that the bulk of it is down the center of the limb  and use at last 3 courses.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Don Case on February 22, 2014, 01:20:03 pm
Would you define a "course". Is it a complete layer of sinew? Is it one row of bundles?
Thanks
Don
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on February 22, 2014, 03:36:05 pm
In this context I am thinking it means a complete layer, but not sure what anyone else means exactly.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 22, 2014, 04:29:51 pm
A course is a complete layer. 

I call the method of sinew backing I use an intelligent use of sinew with the last course acting almost like a sinew cord down the center of the limb.  I've made short stiff handle recurves of around 60" long with over 30" of draw using my method and they still retained some reflex
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Don Case on February 22, 2014, 05:27:45 pm
Thanks, maybe one day I'll be able to answer questions instead of just asking.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on February 22, 2014, 05:43:15 pm
So Marc,
do you completely cover the back in the first course and then progressively narrow the courses until the last is the "cord down the middle"?
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Marc St Louis on February 22, 2014, 06:06:26 pm
Yes that is how I do it.  Also the outer parts of the limbs that don't work, such as the tips, only get 1 course
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Don Case on February 22, 2014, 06:31:34 pm
Yes that is how I do it.  Also the outer parts of the limbs that don't work, such as the tips, only get 1 course

Do you do the single layer first or last? I'm thinking last so it holds everything down.
Questions questions
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on February 22, 2014, 08:39:53 pm
The other way Don.
Entire back covered in first layer then a little narrower, then a little narrower again until it is just a strip down the center. sinew binds to itself real good without glue and even better with it.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: mikekeswick on February 23, 2014, 04:07:06 am
The reasoning behind stacking your sinew is that the highest section down the center gets strained more than if you had a flat back. Mainly because sinew can stretch to about 85 elongation and wood a whole lot less. Sinew/glue is about 1.3sg so its heavy stuff...no good putting heavy stuff on the limbs if you don't make the absolute most of it. That's why they advised you to go for a lot of reflex before sinewing.
I think it's definately worth sinewing a 62 inch bow. One of my best recurves is 64 ntn, sinew backed osage - 63#@28 and it does 185fps with 9 grains per lb and that's in the near constant high humidity here. When I hear it's not worth sinewing bows over 50 inch or whatever I always wish I could hand them that bow..... ;) ;)
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on March 06, 2014, 10:07:15 pm
So I'm still debating the sinew. This is not a recurve but it does have 3" reflex and I could pull it into about 5" when sinewed. Would this utilize the sinew enough to be worthwhile?

62" long with 9" stiff handle  ;)
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Danzn Bar on March 06, 2014, 11:32:38 pm
Hell Yes!  even with just my limited experience...................I've use sinew on a static where the static part was not sinew and it was well worth it.  I'll post it later when it its skinned, it is very dry/cured/stable after about 500 shots. and still holds some reflex.
DBar
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2014, 03:12:57 pm
Im tillering a 62" stiff handled sinew backed bow this weekend doobs, Ill let you know how GREAT it works!
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on March 07, 2014, 03:43:20 pm
Alright fellas, I think I will just do it  ;D  >:D
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: berzerk64 on March 07, 2014, 03:44:30 pm
When in doubt, glue on deer parts. 
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on March 07, 2014, 04:55:03 pm
How long is the draw on that bow PD?
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2014, 04:56:26 pm
27-28"
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on March 07, 2014, 05:01:14 pm
I'm going for 26". Still should be respectable with 5" reflex huh?
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2014, 05:05:00 pm
I have exactly 5" Im starting with before any bending of any sort. At 26" Id snip an inch off each end of your rig. But, either way will make a great bow.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: DuBois on March 07, 2014, 10:07:40 pm
OK, she's down to 60" and gonna get it on tonight  >:D
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 15, 2014, 10:25:56 am
All done doob's. Its been shot maybe 100 times now. I started with 5" and stopped at 2 3/4". Not too bad for a stiff handled 60" bow ( I snipped 1" off each end) pulling 27" plus.
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: Cameroo on March 15, 2014, 10:52:45 am
All done doob's. Its been shot maybe 100 times now. I started with 5" and stopped at 2 3/4". Not too bad for a stiff handled 60" bow ( I snipped 1" off each end) pulling 27" plus.

Got any beauty shots??
Title: Re: Stiff handle and sinew
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 15, 2014, 10:53:46 am
Not yet Cam. Ill have it done in 6-7 days.