Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Nashoba on February 08, 2014, 07:21:31 pm
-
Hi guys!
I have been on this site for a while and I am just getting around to posting my first bow. I apologize for the poor quality pictures. My camera is a $40 piece and my wife's camera was dead. I have actually had this bow finished for a while, but between college and timber cruising I have hardly had time to post anything. Anyway, on to the details.
In the summer of 2012, I cut a 3" Pignut Hickory from a hill bank and stripped the bark off as soon as it fell. Using a method that my grandfather showed me when he was teaching me how to carve bows, I used an awl to punch multiple holes perpendicular to where I wanted my back to be. If you do it right the wood will check along these lines during drying and preserve the back. Not always necessary to do, but it has kept the favored side of my staves from checking in the past.
I dried the stave for about 6 months standing in a shed, and began shaving that winter. I usually only got thirty minute bursts on Saturdays to work on it, but by the end of May I was in the tillering process (college is not friendly to my hobby). I took on an internship with my state's wildlife agency and finally had time to put the finishing touches on it. Here are the results.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1625500_10203066205165072_1723008069_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1620785_10203066206405103_1824766944_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1620797_10203066209565182_1352250699_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1888694_10203066213605283_119143508_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1798367_10203066217085370_746041067_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1899909_10203066527213123_349705702_n.jpg)
60" NTN, 50lbs @ 31"
Pignut Hickory (Carya glabra)
No name yet. Taking suggestions.
I didn't start with a particular design in mind. It just sorta came out like this. The tiller didn't even out as nice as I wanted, but it started shooting real sweet at one point and I was scared of changing anything. The shelf was for my wife, as she is not used to shooting off of hand. I normally forgo a shelf so this is a crude first attempt. I haven't applied a finish yet, but I think a clear coat might be in order (I don't want to cover up the mineral stains on the right side). I brought the knocks down to pinky size. I am going to try for pencil diameter sometime or another.
So what do y'all think? How can I improve on my work, and what type of design would you call this? Also looking for a name if y'all have any ideas.
My next dilemma is whether to tackle "Lead-Belly", my Dogwood molly project, or to get started on some 70 year old Osage Orange. We shall see.
-
It looks like a nice holmegaarde to me. I'm interested to see an unbraced side profile, my impression was that hickory might take a bit of set with that kind of bend.
My vote goes to the seventy year osage, obviously >:D
-
It looks like a nice holmegaarde to me. I'm interested to see an unbraced side profile, my impression was that hickory might take a bit of set with that kind of bend.
My vote goes to the seventy year osage, obviously >:D
A "bit" of set would be an understatement. I measured it out to 3" inches. I am going to reverse brace it to get it out and probably reserve this one for the wife (my DL is 31" compared to her 28"). I intended it to be longer than it is but it just didn't work out. I will try to get an unbraced side picture soon.
-
Once the set is there, you can't remove it. DO NOT reverse brace it!!!
-
Once the set is there, you can't remove it. DO NOT reverse brace it!!!
Had no idea about that. Thanks for the warning! Guess I will just deal with 3" :D
-
First off, that's an incredible first bow!! The design is good and appropriate for the wood IMO. You could have went smaller and thinner wiht the tips/outer limbs. That would speed them up and give you a few more inches of draw if desired. Incase your wondering the bow could have handled a deeper shelf if desired, for you wife. With just a little thickness on the handle you can go close to 1/2 way if desired. You can finish it with several coats of tru oil if you like. Great job!
-
You should name it "babys bottom" cuz that baby is smooth.
-
Looks cool.
-
First off, that's an incredible first bow!! The design is good and appropriate for the wood IMO. You could have went smaller and thinner wiht the tips/outer limbs. That would speed them up and give you a few more inches of draw if desired. Incase your wondering the bow could have handled a deeper shelf if desired, for you wife. With just a little thickness on the handle you can go close to 1/2 way if desired. You can finish it with several coats of tru oil if you like. Great job!
Thank you! I might need to clarify on this being my first bow. This is the first one that I have posted on here. It is my 4th bow and the first one to pull over 30lbs at my draw length. I thought about thinning the outer limbs down to reduce mass, but again I am nervous about messing with it ;D Does Tru Oil cause any discoloration? How compareable is it with linseed oil?
-
Thin it from the sides; the tips will retain their stiffness with less mass, making for better cast.
-
Id name it "Stressed out". Truth is, your bow is severely overdrawn and underbuilt for 31" of draw. Being hickory it'll take anything you give it and stay together. Next time try adding about 6-7" of length to it and your set will drop dramatically and of course your performance goes up equally.
The name I suggested is all in fun, please don't think Im picking on you.
-
+1 pearl...and it looks like your no where near 31" of draw either....ya sure you draw that with a stick bow? No offense but I'm doubting it by the picture evidence.... get an arrow and mark it inches,then try to shoot normally with someone watching you shoot to see how far back your really drawing....once you know your true draw length then you can design accordingly more to your desired specs....but if you do draw that far then do as pearl says and add ten inches or more of length....and also try to keep hickory at a low moisture content ,otherwise it will want to follow the string like a strung out dog....not picking on ya,just some constructive criticism for ya to do better on the next one....
-
man he looks just like squirrelly to me ...no offence ...just sayin..lol...anyone else see the resemblance or is it just me...difference is..theres a bow in the pic...not tryin to rouse old bones ...lol
-
I really don't want to open a can of worms but I really want to know what the squirrel references are about. I must have missed something during a week off.
+1 PD and blackhawk
-
Nice bow....Hickory is My favorite wood to work with....
-
Pearlie n mohawk....when you describe the bow as being overstressed...is it because of the design. Im terrible at evaluating tiller and I didnt think the bend looked too bad.
-
An over stressed bow design can and should have a good tiller if you want to get a chance to shoot it a few times. Draw length x 2 + 8 or 10" is a good starting point for almost all non backed bows of almost all woods, of course we all know there are about 2 million exceptions to this. But lets keep it simple this time around.
-
Blackhawk I meant :P....thanks pearlie.
-
the reference was that he "resembles" another PA member,,that is all,,closely resembles to my eye,,no harm meant .
-
Id name it "Stressed out". Truth is, your bow is severely overdrawn and underbuilt for 31" of draw. Being hickory it'll take anything you give it and stay together. Next time try adding about 6-7" of length to it and your set will drop dramatically and of course your performance goes up equally.
The name I suggested is all in fun, please don't think Im picking on you.
Even if you were trying to pick on me, it would pale in comparison to how my siblings and in-laws pick on me ;) No worries. The length was another thing that didn't turn out exactly how I wanted. I intended it to be about four inches longer, but I lost the extra length while I was shaving it down. When I got down to the tillering stage I had decided that it would be my wife's bow. I just couldn't help myself though and I started shooting it.
+1 pearl...and it looks like your no where near 31" of draw either....ya sure you draw that with a stick bow? No offense but I'm doubting it by the picture evidence.... get an arrow and mark it inches,then try to shoot normally with someone watching you shoot to see how far back your really drawing....once you know your true draw length then you can design accordingly more to your desired specs....not picking on ya,just some constructive criticism for ya to do better on the next one....
I tried measuring like that and it came out to 29"???
The way I measured it the first time was by holding a yardstick to my chest and measuring to my fingers. I guess that was the wrong way to measure it. Oh well, learn something new everyday ;D Is that the "official" way to determine draw length? And constructive criticism is something that I appreciate, so thank you!
-
man he looks just like squirrelly to me ...no offence ...just sayin..lol...anyone else see the resemblance or is it just me...difference is..theres a bow in the pic...not tryin to rouse old bones ...lol
I did a member search to find a picture of "Squirrelly", no luck. Did a regular search and I think I found who you are talking about. I PROMISE, I am not "Squirrelly".
Do you have a link to a picture of him? I find a whole lot of look-alikes in my state and I am intrigued now. Maybe my father got around more than I thought ;D (Just kidding about that and I don't mean any insult to "Squirrelly" or any of my look-alikes that might be reading this by some astronomical chance).
-
In your full draw photo id bet a lot of money your pulling no more than 26"....did you measure it with this bow? And what kind of bow did you use? The style of bow can affect your draw length...for example a thin bendy handle bow versus a deep stiff handled bow with a locator dished style grip...between those two extremes I'm 26" with a short thin bendy handle,and close to 29" with the deep stiff handled one with a dished grip...so when going to start building a bow you need to ask yourself can my stats make a stiff handled bow? Or do I have to make it a bend in the handle bow? And if you go bend in the handle your draw length will shrink...measuring with a yard stick will give you not as good a reading and is inaccurate IMO....best way is how I mentioned with this bow and not a glass or compound bow...and have someone watch you shoot when your not thinking about how far your drawing,and when your not expecting someone to watch you(i.e..when shooting at the range with your buddies etc)..did you pull it too 31" on the tiller tree/stick? If so you def pulled that piece of wood too far,and it will only damage your bow by pulling it way further than it'll be shot...some guys tiller and inch further than there draw for a safety margin knowing if it did get overdrwwn it'd take it..and that's fine,but not almost 5" further than you'll actually be shooting it...
-
I notice alot of folks unstring a bow and push it back straight.as stated set is set , its like a piece of wire bend it back and forth enough and you will have two pieces?
-
Nice job for just beginning,wished my 4th had looked that good,nice job.As for names[in the beginning] keep it and in years to come go back and look,you will probably see some difference in then and now. :) Interesting on how you layed it out,never heard of doing the punch thing. :)
Pappy
-
you could heat treat it...
-
Hey Nashoba! +1 on keeping that Hickory dry in Mississippi. I'm in Boise (high desert) and have no trouble with dry; Hickory loves it. I vote for your dogwood.
Using a method that my grandfather showed me when he was teaching me how to carve bows, I used an awl to punch multiple holes perpendicular to where I wanted my back to be. If you do it right the wood will check along these lines during drying and preserve the back. Not always necessary to do, but it has kept the favored side of my staves from checking in the past.
This is intriguing; any of you fellas have anything to say on this "check control" technique? Nashoba, would you share some pics of what you do?
-
In your full draw photo id bet a lot of money your pulling no more than 26"....did you measure it with this bow? And what kind of bow did you use? The style of bow can affect your draw length...for example a thin bendy handle bow versus a deep stiff handled bow with a locator dished style grip...between those two extremes I'm 26" with a short thin bendy handle,and close to 29" with the deep stiff handled one with a dished grip...so when going to start building a bow you need to ask yourself can my stats make a stiff handled bow? Or do I have to make it a bend in the handle bow? And if you go bend in the handle your draw length will shrink...measuring with a yard stick will give you not as good a reading and is inaccurate IMO....best way is how I mentioned with this bow and not a glass or compound bow...and have someone watch you shoot when your not thinking about how far your drawing,and when your not expecting someone to watch you(i.e..when shooting at the range with your buddies etc)..did you pull it too 31" on the tiller tree/stick? If so you def pulled that piece of wood too far,and it will only damage your bow by pulling it way further than it'll be shot...some guys tiller and inch further than there draw for a safety margin knowing if it did get overdrwwn it'd take it..and that's fine,but not almost 5" further than you'll actually be shooting it...
The 29" measurement that I got was from a glass Montana Longbow (I think it is 64"). I tried measuring it on the bow in this post and I am amazed at how you nailed it. 26" on the dot. I had no idea that the style and dimensions could affect draw length so much. Is there any reading I can do on this?
And I didn't use a tiller stick. The early stages of tillering I very barely bent it. I would brace the stave on my foot like I was stringing it and put just enough weight on it to see an inch or two of bend, I would shave wood off of where it was to stiff and try to keep it even when it looked right. When I got to the point that I could brace it I switched to scraping and just barely bent it past the brace point to check how it was doing. I was nearly done with it by the time I did a full draw, so it has never been past that point (which I now know is 26"). How long have you been doing this? I am more than a little amazed that you could see that in a picture.
-
Nice job for just beginning,wished my 4th had looked that good,nice job.As for names[in the beginning] keep it and in years to come go back and look,you will probably see some difference in then and now. :) Interesting on how you layed it out,never heard of doing the punch thing. :)
Pappy
Thanks! I certainly hope to see a difference in the coming years. My grandfather got me into making bows, but he wasn't very versed on the technical aspects (wood drying, mass principle, etc.). He pretty much made cedar flatbows for my siblings and myself and he also did hickory sapling bows. I learned a good bit about basics from him. If he was still in this walk of life he would probably flip out with all of the information that is available through this community and all of the new publications on wood bows. I am not sure where he learned how to do the hole punching (might have made it up himself) but it worked for his staves and it has worked for the six staves that I have handled myself. My hypothesis is that it gives a relief in the grain during shrinkage and also provides a path for moisture to escape. On the stave that this bow came from I had no checking at all along the back of the stave and the line along which I had punched the holes had developed a long series of cracks between them. I barely had to run my golok (it's a sort of heavy machete thing) down the line to separate this portion from the bow stave.
I am still unsure if this method has any application outside of green sapling staves. I might play around with it and find out.
-
Hey Nashoba! +1 on keeping that Hickory dry in Mississippi. I'm in Boise (high desert) and have no trouble with dry; Hickory loves it. I vote for your dogwood.
Thanks! I dried the stave in a non-conditioned shed and it has stayed indoors since I started working on it. I am debating on when to apply a finish to it. My understanding is that a good finish will help retain moisture content to a degree. I just gotta decide when that is best.
[qoute]
This is intriguing; any of you fellas have anything to say on this "check control" technique? Nashoba, would you share some pics of what you do?
[/quote]
I don't have any right now but I will most certainly take some pictures for documentation next time I do. I might post it as a "how-to" on here for everyone to see. It takes a month or two to see the results though. If you'd like, I can shoot you a PM when I post it.