Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: zenmonkeyman on February 06, 2014, 09:34:53 pm
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A cookie tin banjo has been on my 2do list for a while now. Finally got on my butt and made one. Who am I kidding, I was sitting down already. Partly inspired by Pete Seeger's passing? Anyways, the banjo was invented by people making do with what they had and could build themselves. The cookie tin was commonly used as a banjo resonator. So believe it or not, this is a legit traditional instrument. I planned on making something that looked half-assed but would (hopefully) sound amazing. I sorta got it backwards haha. Some build info: The cookie tin was full of cookies when I got it for Christmas. I don't remember who gave me this particular one. I have a few. The neck is birch I had cut for a different project and this piece was left over. The nut is carved from a shed antler I found. The inlays are elk hoof from a friend's elk a couple of years ago. The bridge is chokecherry. The pegs are forks cut from saskatoon (serviceberry). The tailpiece is also antler. The frets are #10 copper wire hammered flat and carefully filed. The strings are dacron B50 bowstring, 1, 2, and 3 ply. A couple of coats of boiled linseed oil finish it off.
I wasn't real happy with the sound though. It sounded like what a doubter would expect it to sound like. Pops, buzzes, clangs, and crashes, depending on the note being played. Chords were especially terrible. I noticed the distortion diminished if I kept my pinky finger pressed in a certain spot, though, so after a couple of failed remedies, I decided to bend some brass nails into hooks and mount them through the face as shown, tensed by rubber bands. It was a resounding success, losing none of the volume, but increasing brightness, consistency, and especially sustain. It actually sounds very close to how I was hoping it would sound.
I hope you enjoy! As a project it involves a similar skill set to bowmaking. I only used a belt sander to fair up the fretboard, and a drill and palm sander were the only other power tools I used. Mostly drawknife and farrier's rasp.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_2332_1_1.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/zenmonkeyman/media/IMG_2332_1_1.jpg.html)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_2328_1_1.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/zenmonkeyman/media/IMG_2328_1_1.jpg.html)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_2330_1_1.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/zenmonkeyman/media/IMG_2330_1_1.jpg.html)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_2329_1_1.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/zenmonkeyman/media/IMG_2329_1_1.jpg.html)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_2331_1_1.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/zenmonkeyman/media/IMG_2331_1_1.jpg.html)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_2352_1.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/zenmonkeyman/media/IMG_2352_1.jpg.html)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/zenmonkeyman/IMG_2353_1.jpg) (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/zenmonkeyman/media/IMG_2353_1.jpg.html)
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That is really cool. Do you think the B-50 had anything to do with the crappy sound? Curious what monofilament would sound like.
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Really Cool Man! Is it intonated(sp?) maybe not even a word. From the center of the nut to the 12th fret should be the same distance as the center of the bridge to the 12th fret. I have a friend who makes cigar box ukes. He's always talking about that. just a thought, maybe you already know about that. Nylon uke strings might work too to help the sound. I can send you some for free if interested. I think it looks awesome!! dp
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That is really cool. Do you think the B-50 had anything to do with the crappy sound? Curious what monofilament would sound like.
I don't think the B50 had a whole lot to do with it. I made one up and put it on my uke once and it wasn't as nice as a nylon string, a little duller sounding. No I think the real key was the untensioned head. A banjo head is normally stretched, where the tin bottom is merely held in place. Once I put those two hooks in and attached them to rubber bands the head became essentially tensioned. That said, my research led me to find that banjo makers often make use of nylon monofilament fishing line. One guy was using a different make and strength for every string! The fun thing is that they were all different colors, too lol.
Really Cool Man! Is it intonated(sp?) maybe not even a word. From the center of the nut to the 12th fret should be the same distance as the center of the bridge to the 12th fret. I have a friend who makes cigar box ukes. He's always talking about that. just a thought, maybe you already know about that. Nylon uke strings might work too to help the sound. I can send you some for free if interested. I think it looks awesome!! dp
Hey, thanks for the offer, but I plan on getting some proper strings on my next trip into town, but I'm pleased with the sound now so I'm in no panic ;) The frets are laid out by an Excel spreadsheet I downloaded. All I had to do was enter the distance from the nut to the bridge and it spits out the numbers. And it's easy to put the bridge in the right spot because the string center point harmonic should be directly over the 12th fret, which is easily checked.
Thanks guys!
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Hey Monkeyman, that's cool and all, but you can't just post something like that without at least a sound clip ;)
Very cool project, I like the hammered copper frets. Great example of making use of what you've got!
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Never seen Flemish banjer strings! ;D More ambition than I . I would have opted for fretless on my first !
Waiting for the video!
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Otay, well here's how it DID sound before I tweaked it ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbENL7IxCXQ
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SWEET! I listened to it twice. I knew right away when you said she didn't ask you for money that you were singin about your dog. ;D Love the line about the cat too!! ::)
First weekend in June here in Brown County Indiana is the Ukulele World Congress. Last year we had folks from 7 countries and 28 states. you should try to make it, it's a big ball and it appears you'd fit in well with songs and instruments like that. Check it out on line, youtube, facebook and mainland ukes web site.
Great stuff you're doin!! dp
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SWEET! I listened to it twice. I knew right away when you said she didn't ask you for money that you were singin about your dog. ;D Love the line about the cat too!! ::)
First weekend in June here in Brown County Indiana is the Ukulele World Congress. Last year we had folks from 7 countries and 28 states. you should try to make it, it's a big ball and it appears you'd fit in well with songs and instruments like that. Check it out on line, youtube, facebook and mainland ukes web site.
Great stuff you're doin!! dp
Hey thanks! I appreciate the positive response! That indeed does sound like a ton of fun, I shall look it up. :)
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;D ;D ;D
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Cool... That screams for a campfire....
Thanks Leroy
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That is really cool. A cigar box guitar is high on my to do list If I ever get to my to do list ....
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Cool... That screams for a campfire....
Thanks Leroy
Don't listen to Leroy, that should never be thrown in a fire! It's far too cool for that!
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Thank you all!
:D
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cool zenman, I built a cigar box guitar this year and am working on a hubcap guitar now, fun stuff to build, I think if you had taken a pc of copper or aluminum tubing about the width of the neck and cut it so it fit snug between the"head" and the wood below it would have solved the tension problem, cool build though, bub
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Is there a sound post in there?
Me like
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Otay, well here's how it DID sound before I tweaked it ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbENL7IxCXQ
youtube link
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Thanks for posting your details here, I love how it turned out! Making abanjo is on my long term to-do list, and a running joke in my house is when a stray cat pisses me off enough it will be the parts needed. I had the idea to make cat gut strings and to stretch the hide for the "body" from the Foxfire books; love the idea of using a metal tin though, that would be loads easier. :o
You were adventurous putting on frets, I agree with the other responder in that I would probably go for the easier build and go fretless. What did you use for a reference on spacing your frets? I imagine it look a lot of time prepping the copper, but I love the color it gave the neck.
What is the final weight; does it feel heavy? The neck looks a bit thick and a bit wide and I wonder how it sits on the lap. One thing I love about the banjo is how narrow the neck is; it is a bit easier to play with my smaller hands as such.
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mallorn you can make a banjo out of most anything, go on you tube and search hubcap banjos you will be amazed at what comes up, most you can build for next to free
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That my friend IS FRIGGIN AWESOME!!
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I am every bit as fond of handmade music as I am of handmade bows. Here's a link to a guy you will all really dig!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbAZPHtDIY0
While it is not accoustic, you can't deny the talent and unique quality.
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bubby, I did finally find a reference to doing what you mentioned, sticking wedges against the dowel stick to tension the head. I may try that next time. I have to look up hubcap instruments that sounds too cool.
Mallorn, just get busy and do it! I'm surprised how little time it took, even with the fretting. It was no more time and less frustrating than building a bow out of a twisted sapling. With the price of failure set somewhere below making kindling while punching myself in the face. :P I just ordered two of the foxfire books, can't wait till they show up. I know some cats that would be less annoying turned into bagpipes nevermind banjos >:D
The fretting was fairly easy, I found an excel spreadsheet at bluestemstrings.com; all you have to do is input the nut-to-bridge measurement, and the fret locations are spit right out. I drew them up on Paint.net with the coordinates set to cm, printed them off and glued them to the fretboard. All I had to do was cut on the lines, which I did using a fine-tooth jigsaw blade mounted to the correct depth in a stick. The depth itself I figured using trial and error, flattening my wire until it fit in the slot and adjusting accordingly.
It probably took no more than about 3 or 4 hrs to flatten and file the frets themselves, but I wasn't keeping track. Just meditatively spending a slow morning with a fire and a pot of coffee.
The weight is ALL in the neck, so the balance is definitely weird. I'm not a musician so I couldn't intelligently discuss the playability on that measure. I made the neck fairly wide so I could pull down when bending strings, and because being no musician it's much easier for me to play cleanly with a wide string spacing. It coulda been lots narrower. That's also why I ultimately put on frets... My skills really don't allow for any additional levels of difficulty haha.
Thanks killir duck, Olanigw (Pekane), JW, paoliguy, Leroy, and lostarrow!
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Thanks for the bit on being able to make a banjo out of anything, hub caps and the youtube vid (that guy is way more serious than I am though!). Good tips!
My two cents on a fretboard. If you are a novice with string instruments, a fret board is by far the easier way to go and a faster way to pick out a tune on an instrument. If it only takes a few hours to add on frets, I would highly recommend it! Why did you settle on copper smashed flat, just what you had around? I'm trying to think of any metal sold in a ribbon that would work right off the shelf but nothing is coming to mind.
Having a heavy neck will probably make it more difficult to play if you are holding it for a long time, but unless you are playing all night around a campfire it shouldn't be a bother for a few songs here and there. For anyone following along, wider strings and a wider neck will make it easier to not bump into neighboring strings, but will make you stretch more and the neck will be wider (heavier). If you are reaching across the neck to play 3 or 4 strings at once, the closer you can cram them together the easier the stretch. I have smaller hands so I like stuff crammed together. Also to keep in mind, when you are stretching across strings you are often mixing up your fingers to be a couple of frets up or down from another one. If you never plan on playing more than one string at a time then you can do whatever the heck you want though, and you can also tune each string to favor finger placement.
Mallorn, just get busy and do it!
I loved this encouragement, you are throwing gas on this old idea that has kindled for a long time! I won't be able to start too soon, but will follow up when that day comes. I'm still working on my first bow; my first cut was made over six months ago. :o
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here's a link to my cigar box guitar zen man, c b getty is a place to get all the parts you have to buy http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,41474.msg554851.html#msg554851
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN7nVZbZue0&feature=player_detailpage
JW if you like home made music take a listen
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Yeah Mallorn, copper is just something I had on hand that I figured I could work with. They should wear just fine using nylon (or B50 ;D) Wasn't ever going to put steel strings on anyways, my fingers are way too delicate for that haha. :P
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Couldn't leave this topic without updating the sound of the banjo. I did a few tweaks to tension the head (wedges and rubber band - tensioned buttons), thinned the bridge a bit, and put nylon strings on. I think you'll be surprised how banjo-like this banjo sounds now.
http://youtu.be/FbiSCd3_z_I
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That is some really cool sh...shtuff!
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Hey ZenMonk, you need to do a duet with this li'l lady:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ginTpu7u_HU
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Hey ZenMonk, you need to do a duet with this li'l lady:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ginTpu7u_HU
Wow cool!
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girl wails, plats a mean slide on here cbg too, nice call dubya ;)
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She's playing 4 hours from here on Friday nite and I gotta work!
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That sucks, JW, She's hot and so's the music.
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That's really cool Zen, awesome tuners man that's primitive!
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Sure you don't fill a 24 he flu coming on jdub
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Thanks Peacebow!