Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blaflair2 on January 14, 2014, 12:12:50 pm
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How long is too long? And is there any benefit between a longer recurve or a shorter recurve(the actual height of the tip from the bend)
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In my mind, as a general rule, when at full draw, I want the string to come off the static. If too big a curve, it wont. I am sure someone else will give a better explanation, but that is how I think about it.
Russ
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I like short, tight statics that match my 27-28" draw. I want the string to completely leave the belly by the time I get to 22-24", or less. Im not sold on long, sweeping statics being beneficial, but Ive never made one that way and probably never will.
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I made two in the past few weeks, a 58" with 14" radius curves and a 56" with 4" radius curves. Both nice bows but I like the 14" curves better and the bow is much faster, on the 56" I may have gotten the limbs a bit too thin as it tends to go off tiller after shooting and then comes back in after resting. I need to get a camera so I can start posting some pics.
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28" of static limb on a 58" bow Steve? What am I missing man?
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Well I bent reflex in the handle and the rings popped sheering most of my handle off. Sooooooooo, dunno what to do now. Thanks for the replies.
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Pearl, I screwed up it is a 7" radius, the dutch oven top I used was 14" diameter. The other radius was about 3".
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for me : about 4"
2 examples:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,39278.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,34732.0.html
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Simson, u make some of the nicest bows I've seen. That first static I saw before. It still makes me drool. Someday... Someday
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my "big" recurves are about 6" static
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Very interesting post/topic. I've been thinking about this issue ever since I started my sinew back recurve. I'm not sure of the difference/advantages between a continuous bend static curve and one that bends sharp then is straight to the nock. I feel like the sharp bent ones with a straight to the nock is more of a static bent lever. The longer the lever the smoother the draw would be for the poundage. Kind'a makes me think about a bent Molley at the lever fades. ???
I like short, tight statics that match my 27-28" draw. I want the string to completely leave the belly by the time I get to 22-24", or less. Im not sold on long, sweeping statics being beneficial, but Ive never made one that way and probably never will.
I agree with Pearl, but I think as long as the string lifts off of the limb at full draw there is no difference if it lifts 3-4 inches before as long as it lifts. Also, I think what makes the difference is the angle of the nock in relationship to the limb with respect to the length of bow and the intended draw length. The bow is only as long as the string is off the limbs a full draw. If the string doesn't lift from the limb at full draw the rest of the tip dead weight.
After all of this, I will not finish the tips on a recurve until it is tillered to full draw. because it may be too long or too much degree of bend where the string won't lift. I think I will have to rework the tip on the sinew bow I working now I believe it has too much degree of bend. Live, experience and learn I love it.
I hope this makes since and my thoughts are valid.
DBar
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I like them to start lifting off about 1/2 way into the draw.
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Tip weight has to be considered if indeed it is truly a static tip.
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I like them to start lifting off about 1/2 way into the draw.
Badger
What are the advantages to having it lift sooner?
DBar
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Tip weight has to be considered if indeed it is truly a static tip.
huh?
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I really can't say for sure it has advanatges with all bows. I like a lot of early draw weight and then I like the draw weight gain to start leveling off about mid way, this happens when they start to lift off.
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Wouldn't you want the string to "lift off" early with heavy early draw weight? In my mind that would mean the string is trying to get back to it's natural resting place quickly and efficiently, thus casting an arrow harder or furthur while using all of it's stored energy.
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I don't think lift off is the right term as much as the recurves opening up. I don't build that many recurves so consider myself still in the learning stage. I have built about 1/2 dozen this year and feel like I am getting a little better feel for them. The only real interest I have in the recurve is for light arrow flight bows which are shorter than I would normally make a hunting bow. As soon as I get a new chrono I plan to check out the ones I have now and see which performs the best.
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I have not made enough bows to really study this but, my recurve that the string does not come completely come off of is a lot quieter than my recurve with the string coming all the way off the belly. that is with just the bow no quieting accessories. is this universal or is it just the two bows I have?
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I have not made enough bows to really study this but, my recurve that the string does not come completely come off of is a lot quieter than my recurve with the string coming all the way off the belly. that is with just the bow no quieting accessories. is this universal or is it just the two bows I have?
It makes sense to me that a recurve where the string stays in contact with the curves would be quieter because you wouldn't be getting string slap.
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If it stays in contact your aren't gaining all the benefits. Your only shortening a limb. Gotta get the string off the bow and the statics "opened" up to get that classic recurve shot and feel.
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I really can't say for sure it has advanatges with all bows. I like a lot of early draw weight and then I like the draw weight gain to start leveling off about mid way, this happens when they start to lift off.
I agree with you on that, that is why I like the continuous bend recurve with no straight at the nock. The draw weight leveling is continuously and smooth as long as the string is lifting off the limb.
If it stays in contact your aren't gaining all the benefits. Your only shortening a limb. Gotta get the string off the bow and the statics "opened" up to get that classic recurve shot and feel.
Yep that's what I think tooo.
Again this is all just my opinion, I'm still a rooky at this stuff.
DBar
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It's not the length of the recuves that determines when the string will lift off but rather their angle. I used to make my recurves long (from 3 to 4 inches to the apex of the bend) but after some testing I found that short recurves (from 2 to 2 1/2 inches to the apex of the bend) performed just as well if not slightly better plus the bow was easier to tiller
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I agree that extra non working/usable wood on the tips is added weight and stealing some o the energy being stored when drawing the bow, i was a little curious i anyone else thought it made the bow quieter. i dont know how much energy it is stealing but the trade off of being quieter seems nice especially with added mink fur silencers to the string, its a nice 45# recurve i use for squirlles some times and the added quiet keeps them from darting around to much. now if i could only become a better shot... :laugh:
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Here's how I do my statics, I bend and glue them in.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e125/MDS65/osagerecurve2005.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/MDS65/media/osagerecurve2005.jpg.html)
Heat it into the limb and into an underlay and glue it into a form, it stays very well and wont pull out.
Mark
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What is the radius or diameter of the forms curve?
DBar
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I just wing and free hand most of my self bows because of all of the inconsistencies natural materials but I will take a few measurements and let you know. My Gl%$$ bows are different. They are very calculated and repeatable.
Mark
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Thanks, I'm not going to copy it I was just wanting to know for reference to the draw & bow length. I've got other ideas and I'm working on a sinew backed osage static.
Thanks again,
DBar
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Np, I don't care who copies, I've done it. Usually you copy and then improve.....thats how it works.
Mark
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I was thinking of cutting mine down to extremely flipped tips. Rather short recurves. I appreciate all the info.
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I love any style of recurve,but right now I prefer a longer recurve over a short one(recurve length and not bow length)...I could care less if someone says a shorter one is better performance wise...I say performance shperformance blah blah blah...both will perform really well...I like the longer curve cuts its even smoother drawing and feels more of a stable shot...and IMHO smoothness of draw and one that gains even slightly less in the last few inches of draw will be less susceptible to subtle errors in anchoring at +/- an inch and won't be affected by slighlty under or over drawing...the force draw curve of a long curved static is the plumpest of most all designs,and gives you very high early draw weight,and one that levels off after lift off a few inches from full draw...and is an easy bow to hold at full draw asya should(I'm sorry all you snap shooters you should hold at least a split second n learn how to anchor and you'll be even better)..a bow is not all about performance as so many folks are deceived by that's the notion of what makes a great bow...if made well both short or long static tipped bows perform exceptionally well ....I just like the force draw curve,and the even more smoothness you get from a long static recurve tip
Now in terms of physics the more percentage of the limb is recurve the more energy is stored(to a certain point of course)...now the kicker to that is being able to transfer as much as that energy to the arrow as possible...which greatly comes down to the bowyer himself...and also getting past the dead moving mass out at the tips of the bow...which isn't easy to do.
Sorry for coming in so late..but that's my take on things
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I love any style of recurve,but right now I prefer a longer recurve over a short one(recurve length and not bow length)...I could care less if someone says a shorter one is better performance wise...I say performance shperformance blah blah blah...both will perform really well...I like the longer curve cuts its even smoother drawing and feels more of a stable shot...and IMHO smoothness of draw and one that gains even slightly less in the last few inches of draw will be less susceptible to subtle errors in anchoring at +/- an inch and won't be affected by slighlty under or over drawing...the force draw curve of a long curved static is the plumpest of most all designs,and gives you very high early draw weight,and one that levels off after lift off a few inches from full draw...and is an easy bow to hold at full draw asya should(I'm sorry all you snap shooters you should hold at least a split second n learn how to anchor and you'll be even better)..a bow is not all about performance as so many folks are deceived by that's the notion of what makes a great bow...if made well both short or long static tipped bows perform exceptionally well ....I just like the force draw curve,and the even more smoothness you get from a long static recurve tip
Now in terms of physics the more percentage of the limb is recurve the more energy is stored(to a certain point of course)...now the kicker to that is being able to transfer as much as that energy to the arrow as possible...which greatly comes down to the bowyer himself...and also getting past the dead moving mass out at the tips of the bow...which isn't easy to do.
Sorry for coming in so late..but that's my take on things
Interesting but I see some errors in your reasoning