Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DuBois on January 11, 2014, 07:53:28 pm

Title: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB (finished bottom of page 2)
Post by: DuBois on January 11, 2014, 07:53:28 pm
55" HHB with 3 layers sinew in strip down center. Bendy handle. Asymetrical limb profiles as you can see.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/002_zps18225b21.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/002_zps18225b21.jpg.html)

I got motivated and rearranged the basement for a tiller set up on the wall and here's what I got so far on tiller.

No weight side profile with chalk outline.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/hhb3002_zpsb2e83ce1.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/hhb3002_zpsb2e83ce1.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/hhb3001_zps57cc51ee.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/hhb3001_zps57cc51ee.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/001_zps27d325a5.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/001_zps27d325a5.jpg.html)
last pic is about 10" and 35#

What you all think?
And thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Where's the guys with the eyes
Post by: Marc St Louis on January 11, 2014, 08:00:36 pm
If it was me I would get the handle to work a bit with such a short bow, it doesn't look like it's working at all there
Title: Re: Where's the guys with the eyes
Post by: Parnell on January 11, 2014, 08:07:24 pm
Yeah, with those levers thats got to be a shorty.  Find your arc!
Title: Re: Where's the guys with the eyes
Post by: Fred Arnold on January 11, 2014, 08:15:07 pm
I agree with Mark but am working on one now and am trying to bring the handle in slowly. Your handle area looks to be narrower so it will have to remain a tad deeper than the limbs and fades.
Grant you that is only my opinion and there is more knowledge here than mine. I'm trying to get mine to bend late in my 28 1/2" draw.
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: DuBois on January 12, 2014, 02:11:10 am
Marc, Parnell, and Fred. Thanks for the input. I agree that the handle is gonna need to bend more. I am just a little hesitant to go there too soon and have horrible set. I kinda like Freds idea of going to that later in the tiller, (and I'm a chicken). I made some progress today and just want some other eyes on it again. Hope to have first brace tomorrow.
Thanks, Marco
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: mikekeswick on January 12, 2014, 04:37:25 am
In my opion you don't have the length to leave the center stiff (even just for now).
It looks like the start of a hinge just inbound of the left 'lever'. Your handle area is way thick at the moment that's why your midlimbs are bending too much. You really need to loosen up the middle or else you will get that horrible set you talked about!
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: BL on January 12, 2014, 04:58:28 am
Also the bow looks like it's rocking a bit on the tree when drawn.  The limb on the right is bending more than the left overall but it doesn't show as much from the chalk line due to the slant.
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: DuBois on January 12, 2014, 10:41:25 am
In my opion you don't have the length to leave the center stiff (even just for now).
It looks like the start of a hinge just inbound of the left 'lever'. Your handle area is way thick at the moment that's why your midlimbs are bending too much. You really need to loosen up the middle or else you will get that horrible set you talked about!
Thanks Mike, that makes sense. I will get the handle moving today and watch that hinge area closely.

Also the bow looks like it's rocking a bit on the tree when drawn.  The limb on the right is bending more than the left overall but it doesn't show as much from the chalk line due to the slant.
It looks weird but it's not rocking, just non symmetrical limbs causing the handle to sit un-level when the tips are level with each other. My heat straightening was not so successful  ::)
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: rps3 on January 12, 2014, 11:16:33 am
I like the chalk outline idea to remind you of the original limb profile, sometimes it is hard to keep that mental picture in your head as the bow is being drawn.
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: mullet on January 12, 2014, 01:59:51 pm
It's probably too late but if it's possible I'de shorten the levers some. You don't have much wood to work with with the levers and the stiff handle.
Also it looks like you are getting  close to hinging that right limb right behind the lever.

I agree with Marc, also. I think you will have to get that middle moving some. It's gonna be tough unless you are patient to get a 28.5" draw without a few inches of set the way it's going.
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: DuBois on January 12, 2014, 02:34:34 pm
It's probably too late but if it's possible I'de shorten the levers some. You don't have much wood to work with with the levers and the stiff handle.
Also it looks like you are getting  close to hinging that right limb right behind the lever.

I agree with Marc, also. I think you will have to get that middle moving some. It's gonna be tough unless you are patient to get a 28.5" draw without a few inches of set the way it's going.
Thanks Eddie, You recognize that beast of a scale? I'll watch that hinge area you are seein'
I been working on it today and the handle is starting to move a tiny bit. I'll post more pics later.
I am thinking 27" draw on this.
I like the chalk outline idea to remind you of the original limb profile, sometimes it is hard to keep that mental picture in your head as the bow is being drawn.
Thanks, I started with a sharpie on the tip area for reference and thought I would use a pencil for the rest but couldn't see it. Kids had some nice new chalk  ;D
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: Bryce on January 12, 2014, 03:53:51 pm
It's a good start! Get them inners workin:)
Don't forget to subtract the weight of your 10lb scale ;D
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: turtle on January 12, 2014, 04:03:15 pm
It's a good start! Get them inners workin:)
Don't forget to subtract the weight of your 10lb scale ;D

Wouldn't you have to add the weight of the scale?
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 12, 2014, 04:55:56 pm
Doobs if that's all your bending it? You should still be on the floor with it. Unless those tips can safely move 8-12" with a long (er) string on a tree, keep eyeing down your leg on the floor.
Title: Re: How's my tiller please?
Post by: DuBois on January 12, 2014, 07:31:49 pm
 I put the new pic with the older ones for reference. Got her bending a little more now. Thinking I'm getting close to good bends but any suggestions are welcome.

Doobs if that's all your bending it? You should still be on the floor with it. Unless those tips can safely move 8-12" with a long (er) string on a tree, keep eyeing down your leg on the floor.
Thanks Mr. Pearlie
I'm still figuring out when to go to a string vs floor.
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: mwosborn on January 12, 2014, 09:24:30 pm
Looks to me like the left limb is still flat just outside the fade to mid limb - but asymmetrical bows play with my eyes too.  BTW how much shorter is the left limb?  In the last pic it looks considerably shorter.
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: DuBois on January 12, 2014, 10:25:33 pm
Looks to me like the left limb is still flat just outside the fade to mid limb - but asymmetrical bows play with my eyes too.  BTW how much shorter is the left limb?  In the last pic it looks considerably shorter.
That brings me to a question I forgot earlier.
   
  The limbs are same length but I have the bow off center cause that is where my hand will grip it. Is that a good idea or should I put it dead center on the tree and then just find the arrow pass after tillering?
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: mwosborn on January 12, 2014, 10:42:40 pm
I generally grip in the middle of the handle (bow with a symmetrical).  The arrow pass would of course be above that.  Some tiller by pulling on the string where the arrow will actually be nocked and the fingers placed on the string - which would be above center.  Others tiller by just pulling at the center.
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: mikekeswick on January 13, 2014, 04:22:27 am
If you tiller everything centrally the lower limb will end up weak sure as eggs is eggs! Pull it the same way as when you will be shooting it.
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: Pappy on January 13, 2014, 08:08:37 am
What Mike said is the way I do it,and yes to the question on the scale,I have one like that and if you hang it off the string I set my scale at 4lbs.before I start,that is the weight of my scale.  :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: How's my tiller now? new pics
Post by: DuBois on January 13, 2014, 03:54:02 pm
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/hhb4001_zps67037781.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/hhb4001_zps67037781.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/hhb4002_zps36157d56.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/hhb4002_zps36157d56.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/hhb4003_zps17c0a911.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/hhb4003_zps17c0a911.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/hhb4004_zpsc3e4184d.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/hhb4004_zpsc3e4184d.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/hhb4005_zps75861c35.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/hhb4005_zps75861c35.jpg.html)
40# at 15"


shortened the long string to just long enough to string with no tension and just about ready for bracing. What you think?
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 13, 2014, 04:15:29 pm
Lefty is about 10# too heavy. Use a straight edge doobs. Run it from fade to tip to find the largest gap, its easy to see. Mark and scrape/rasp those thinner gaps until you can run a straight edge from fade to tip and maintain the same gap. Its not a micro measurement your looking for, its evident and easy to see.
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: DuBois on January 13, 2014, 05:48:08 pm
Will do PD, thanks.
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: bubby on January 13, 2014, 06:41:30 pm
like chris said use a straight edge, the left isn't moving inside third at all to me
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: adb on January 13, 2014, 07:38:26 pm
If that bow was mine, I'd ditch the lever tips and get all of both limbs and the handle bending. Otherwise, it might break outright or take horrible set. JMHO.  :)
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: DuBois on January 13, 2014, 07:47:33 pm
If that bow was mine, I'd ditch the lever tips and get all of both limbs and the handle bending. Otherwise, it might break outright or take horrible set. JMHO.  :)
What you other fellas think? Should I take the bend farther into the tips? I have enough width to go probably 3-4" on each farther. I'm open to suggestion.
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 13, 2014, 07:55:54 pm
Yup. Id leave 5-6" stiff.
Title: Re: How's my tiller now?
Post by: Marc St Louis on January 13, 2014, 08:02:43 pm
Still not enough at the handle.  It may look like it's working there but it's not.  Also the left limb just outside the handle could work a bit more
Title: Re: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB
Post by: DuBois on March 25, 2014, 04:56:12 pm
Got it too weak in outer limb and n my wisdom decided to just pull it until it gave...not a smart idea at all.

 I had wrapped rawhide about 3" from tips and that held together but snapped clean off. I don't know if it was the wood still in the string or if I just got whipped in the gut by the string but it crossed my eyes for a second either way.


Had some maple tips with osage underlays that I screwed up from an attempt at a horn bow in the past that never got posted. I modified these for wrap on siyahs/extensions and put them on with epoxy and dust then added another layer of moose sinew up onto siyahs a bit, then wrapped up with sinew and rawhide.

70 at 25" Not sure  am getting it all in the FD. Fake sinew string.
Rat snake (first skin) and it has some cracks in finish  :'( I posted this in my other posting.
dyed rawhide grip.

WTH is wrong with me??? >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB
Post by: half eye on March 25, 2014, 05:39:32 pm
You have a real nice shorty there.....but take a good look at your full draw and you can see that you are not using any of the middle third of it Marco. If you carefully scrape the middle down.....just a very little at a time the bend will "creep" toward the center and give you more draw, not very much loss in draw weight and a more circular tiller. You dont have to go full circle but you could definitely get more bow out of that stick, sir
rich
Title: Re: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB
Post by: DuBois on March 25, 2014, 05:50:33 pm
Now that you say it, I see what you mean. I think I'll do some more scraping and refinish gently where the back is cracked over the skin. I certainly have room to lose a few pounds anyway ;D
Thanks Rich.
Title: Re: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB
Post by: NeolithicMan on March 25, 2014, 06:12:13 pm
I really like the looks of that shorty doob!
Title: Re: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB (finished on page 2)
Post by: DuBois on March 25, 2014, 08:10:12 pm
Thanks Neo,

On second thought, I think I will just leave it alone. I got enough time in it already.

Heres the skin and the area that is cracked finish. Bad pics and hard to see but I can feel it with fingertips. It's lighter than the rest of skins and cracks go across the back. I am wondering if it because I put a coat of amber shellac over the skins first off to bring out more warmth in color and then did the tru oil?

Will try to sand it out gently and finish better I guess.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB (finished bottom of page 2)
Post by: DuBois on March 26, 2014, 12:20:09 am
Oh yeah, it is now 47" n-n
Title: Re: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB (finished bottom of page 2)
Post by: DuBois on March 26, 2014, 05:30:57 pm
Well, I couldn't let Half eyes observation go and had to mess with it.

Down to upper 50's at 26" and  think the bend is better and more even. Thanks Rich.

Now just gotta finish it again. Will post a new thread when done.

I am never sure what is best; start a fresh thread or tag it onto an old one like this?
Title: Re: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB (finished bottom of page 2)
Post by: half eye on March 26, 2014, 06:28:36 pm
Big Tease!!!!! for the love of God man, we need pic's  ::) >:D >:D
Title: Re: Blown out/kicked my butt/re done HHB (finished on page 2)
Post by: zenart on March 27, 2014, 12:45:16 am
I put a coat of amber shellac over the skins first off to bring out more warmth in color and then did the tru oil?

Shellac is a petroleum distillate and as this medium dries the distillate evaporates leaving a very hard glassy type finish. Applying tru oil on top of a glassy varnish finish may only give moderate 'staining' effect as it has no place to really sink into and it just sort of sits on top. 

Any time any medium cracks it's usually because of lack of surface preparation (not enough abrasion to bite, or oils present) but can also result from trying to adhere to an unequal composition (minute differences in the material you are applying the medium to). 

Ron