Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 12:56:20 pm

Title: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 12:56:20 pm
I won’t call this a build along, it’s just kind of a follow along really.  I found it interesting because of the state of the wood I started with.  My family and I spent a little time in North Texas over the Christmas holidays and 4 days of that were spent hanging out at Curtis Carter’s place in Pooleville (tipistuff).  We had planned in advance to cut some Elm and Mulberry while I was there and Saturday morning found us slogging thru the creek bottoms.  We found a few good Elm limbs we marked out and a stand of Mulberry as well.  We went back to the house to grab the saw and wrestled our boys away from the Xbox and all headed back out.  On the way we happened to walk across 2 very weathered staves just lying out in a clearing.  Curt said a young fellow had brought them out with the intentions of making a bow and just never did.  They have been laying out in the elements for the last 9 years or so, and yes they were Bodark.  Well, 2 Osage staves just waiting to be carried out beats the stuffing out of just about anything else in my book, right?  So we ditched the Elm and Mulberry for a later trip in the spring and hauled these 2 staves back to the house.  The interesting question for me was how deep the decay and worm holes went on these things.  Nine years lying in the dirt is a long time.  I’ve seen bows of Osage made from fence posts and the like, so I knew they should be ok at some level.  I’ve documented it all in case a few others might find it as interesting as I have.  It’s magical stuff!
BTW, yes that is a brand new Work Mate My honey got me for Christmas.  My other is about 18 years old and finally giving up the ghost.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 01:04:27 pm
You can see in the first couple of pics the state of the exposed ring.  It feels like hard wood on the back, but lots of worm holes in it so I can’t be sure.  The bark had been removed.  After nearly a decade in the dirt, the decay was only skin deep.  Scratch the surface with the draw knife and it’s beautiful darkish orange wood just a millimeter deep but chocked full of worm holes.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 01:07:17 pm
I started out and went 3 to 4 rings deep and still had worm holes, so I took another ring off.  I’m now 4 to 5 rings deep.  Most of the worm damage has been removed, but the black marks are little lateral trails left by the deepest Borer.  So, another ring should get it.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 01:09:58 pm
6 rings deep as best I can tell, and I’ve got a pristine back.  That’s maybe ½ inch deep.  The wood could have been cut yesterday and you couldn’t tell the difference.  Not sure yet what I’m gonna do with it.  It’s 74 inches long and about 4 inches wide at the narrowest spot.  I can split it into 2 staves lengthwise or pop a belly split off of it. All comments, observations and suggestions are welcome.
 
I’ll update the thread as I progress……     
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: RyanR on January 01, 2014, 01:14:32 pm
That's a really nice stave, especially for sitting outside for 9 years.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Dean Marlow on January 01, 2014, 01:16:33 pm
This will be good. I will follow with interest. Osage is an amazing wood for sure. I live in Illinois and have been around Osage all my life. There is no wood I can think of in my area that has the ability to resist decay over time like Osage . Used here for fencing. There is fence posts here still being used that are well over 50 years old.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: 4dog on January 01, 2014, 01:36:43 pm
Ink and I found a very similiar osage hanging out across a dry creekbed...sawed it in half..its got some worm damage but i havent got into it yet...gonna follow this one close...keep it coming Slim!
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Joec123able on January 01, 2014, 01:57:44 pm
Wow Osage is amazing 9 years in the elements and still only skin deep decay hmm
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2014, 02:04:37 pm
       I bought a bee keepers osage sign post that was said to be 100 years old. It was full of wood ants but I was still able to get down to good wood and make a bow. The ants did more damage to the core it seemed like. I had about 1/2" I had to take off the back then the wood was like new again. Amazing wood.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: IdahoMatt on January 01, 2014, 03:29:21 pm
I love these follow alongs.  To see what can be done with a piece of trash wood to so many people.  Looks like a great stave and a good find.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: turtle on January 01, 2014, 04:02:16 pm
( quote)   I can split it into 2 staves lengthwise or pop a belly split off of it. All comments, observations and suggestions are welcome.


If you are brave you could take a belly split first, and then split the rest down the center for a total of 3 staves.
Real nice looking sage tho. Good luck however you procede.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 04:04:32 pm
Now that's using your noodle.  May try that.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: osage outlaw on January 01, 2014, 04:26:11 pm
Nice save Slimbob!  That wood has that wonderful burnt orange color.  I'll be watching this one.  Good luck with it.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2014, 05:12:19 pm
   I would go for the three, I do that quite a bit with e ebay staves.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: curiousiam on January 01, 2014, 05:48:35 pm
Happy New Years, I'm new to the forum and I try to follow along about osage bows. Can't beat em short or long. This might not be the place to ask but I keep seeing the word "chrysal". Is there another term for this or am I just enept?
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 05:49:16 pm
Well, I took Turtle and Badgers advice.........
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 05:52:00 pm
Kiddingggg

No belly split as the wood in the wedge has some rot in it but, 2 nice staves each about 2 inches wide at the center....sweet!

Thanks for the ideas guys.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 05:57:57 pm
Curiousiam, a chrysal is a tiny compression fracture on the belly of a bow.  I honestly have never seen one on an Osage bow, but I over build mine so that might explain that.  Had 'em on white woods.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: StickMan47 on January 01, 2014, 08:49:05 pm
Great find you got there Slimbob! If I ever come across some Osage just lying around in my area I'd prolly have a heart attack. Lucky for you, and thanks for doing the follow along. You gonna build twin bows with the "sisters" or go different on each one?
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 01, 2014, 08:50:52 pm
Not sure. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: turtle on January 01, 2014, 09:50:15 pm
Too bad you couldnt get a belly split, but when in doubt it pays not to get too greedy.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: owlbait on January 01, 2014, 10:29:12 pm
Nice save! Can't wait to see what dimensions you go with. I have a similar wormy stave that I acquired from a fella that I feel boned me on it, and I'm still struggling with. Maybe this will be the year it becomes a bow, a walking stick, or kindling!
.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: IdahoMatt on January 01, 2014, 10:40:55 pm
Nicely done.  Keep up the progress :)
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Gus on January 02, 2014, 03:31:31 am
Nicely Done...
Two Staves in hand are Much better than three Maybes in the Reject Bin...
:)

-gus
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: mikekeswick on January 02, 2014, 04:26:15 am
+1 to Gus!
Nice wood you've got there! Sister bows!
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: burchett.donald on January 02, 2014, 09:15:54 am
Slimbob,
              You chased deep and came out with 2 beautiful character staves...Did the staves seem dry or was there some moisture left from being on the ground? I was wondering if your going to start tillering as is...Nice save and interesting build along with good pics ...
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 09:24:28 am
donald, dry, but not overly so.  RH here is fairly dry this time of year.  I would think that any moisture would be mostly external.  They're ready to start bending.  Probably start on them this weekend.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: H Rhodes on January 02, 2014, 09:54:03 am
I am following along on this one.  Looks like you can make twins from those staves!  I just found a osage tree on our back pasture that has been laying on the ground for some years.  It looks a lot like what you started with.  This post inspired me to cut some logs out of it and see if I can drawknife down to the good stuff.  With our high humidity down here, I am wondering how dry the interior wood actually is, and I know the damned wood wasps have had a field day with it.  It will be cool to see what you make out of these two.     
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 10:11:16 am
Thanks Howard.  I'm thinking right now that I will make two completely different bows with these sisters.  Working Idea is one Blackhawk inspired Holmie-ish type stiff handled bow and the other a longish bendy handle.  Kinda the "Heart" sisters approach.  The two couldn't look any different from one another but both very gifted in their own way.  That reference may predate many on here. :)
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: RidgeRunner on January 02, 2014, 10:14:56 am
Did you not say that you found 2 staves on the ground???

Have you started on the other one yet?

David
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 10:17:16 am
Yeah, the other one is short, maybe 45 inches long.  I make a good many kids bows so that one is for that.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Blaflair2 on January 02, 2014, 11:38:23 am
I'm in the same boat as u. I found 3 old osage fence posts, leaning against an osage tree. Gotta haul em out this weekend. The sapwood is all gone but the log is solid. So hopefully mine are as nice as yours!
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 11:52:24 am
Sounds like a nice find. Post pictures when you can on them. I'd like to see them.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 02, 2014, 02:03:46 pm
SlimBob, glad you got a nice back. I had an osage stave like that once. Must be tasty wood for the bugs. Looking forward to more. :) Jawge
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Blaflair2 on January 02, 2014, 02:08:12 pm
So this is on of the ends cut off the fence post. Tiny tiny rings.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Blaflair2 on January 02, 2014, 02:52:29 pm
Can u use dead standing osage?
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 04:34:32 pm
I would guess yes.  Never done so, so it's just speculation, but lots of people have made them from old fence posts. I recall someone helped sadiejane a year or so ago with one (53 year old memory).  It would seem to me to be a matter of how much decay had taken place.  The stuff is very resistant to decay and insects, I can attest to that first hand, so It wouldn't scare me to try it.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: PaulN/KS on January 02, 2014, 04:42:51 pm
Can u use dead standing osage?

Yep, and don't let the thin rings spook ya . If it's straight and you can get a clean ring you'll be ok.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: RyanR on January 02, 2014, 05:15:53 pm
This gets better as it goes, glad to see the two nice staves.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: tipi stuff on January 02, 2014, 05:19:36 pm
Uhhhh, Slim, I need those pieces of wood back up here. Okay, okay,,,, keep em. I don't usually season my own wood that way, but I am certainly happy to see these pieces are going to turn out well for you. CC
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 06:23:51 pm
Oh, hey Curt.  Funny thing, these are mistakenly NOT the ones you and I....well, you carried out of the woods the other day.  Those were junk I'm afraid.  Completely worthless.  Not worth the effort we, well, you put into shagging them across the creek.  As it happens, I, funny story, found these on the side of the road at an antique stand on the way home from your place.  I know, darned the luck.  Ok, none of that is true, except the part about you carrying them out and even that is a half truth, as I did carry the smaller one. :)  Owe you one! 
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 07:33:02 pm
I took coarse sand paper and cleaned the knot up.  Really hard wood on the knot.  Took an awl and cleaned the punk out of the center.  Looks like it'll have a hole clean thru it.  Got my center line drawn free hand as it a bit snakey.  I'm throwing this out for suggestions...my thoughts on this one is a longish bendy handle.  The knot is an issue but workable I'm sure especially if I get it bending through the handle.  66 inches long, 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 inches wide for the middle third and taper to 3/8 inch at the tips.  That's the plan but, but it's open for debate.

I don't have the knot to contend with on the other sister, but it's a bit snakier.  It will be a Holmie at this point.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Blaflair2 on January 02, 2014, 07:57:47 pm
I took a small sapling that was dead standing. Maybe 1" round. I couldn't break it in half. Even stepping on it. I'm gonna make a sweet walking stick with that one. But there is a load of fallen cut and dead standing trees I found! I'm gonna be a busy beaver dragging them the 1/2 mile through the woods!
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 08:04:38 pm
Now people will ask you if they can use dead standing...and you'll have the answer.  Good luck with it.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: owlbait on January 02, 2014, 08:42:23 pm
Thanks for all the info and pics slim.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: burn em up chuck on January 02, 2014, 09:09:49 pm
    this is great, keep it coming

                        chuck
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 09:33:57 pm
Hey, I'm tickled to do it. Let's see where it goes.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Postman on January 02, 2014, 10:22:41 pm
Great job so far - have yet to score an old osage post, not for lack of trying though.
Edit- Ugh -  no more phone posting until I get my new glasses LOL...whatta mess
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: osage outlaw on January 02, 2014, 10:31:59 pm
Looking good Slimbob.  I can't wait to see these bows bending.

On the topic of dead standing osage, I have cut some and plan to cut a lot more.  I haven't made a bow from it yet but it seems to be good wood and very dense.  The color is similar to what Slimbob found inside his staves.  The problem is finding it without deep checks. 
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 02, 2014, 10:53:41 pm
Yeah Clint, this one does have a pretty distinctive color.  The last Osage bow I finished was neon yellow.  This one has that burnt orange color you mentioned.  Seems pretty dense.  I'm gonna do an SG test on it just to see what it says.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: dwardo on January 03, 2014, 08:49:48 am
Great find. If that was a whitewood over here it would be a bag of mush after about a month on the ground.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: blackhawk on January 03, 2014, 08:59:16 am
I've made three from a dead standing osage....three eyed molly,two eyed molly,and scorpios sting all came from that tree...and I've made a couple from logs on the ground a lot longer than that,and all made fine bows......osage is king!!!!  >:D
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 03, 2014, 09:08:46 am
Hey Blackhawk.  I figured you had done so.  It's magical stuff!
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: blackhawk on January 03, 2014, 09:21:29 am
The one I made that came from Dave's (hedgeapple)farm in kentucky was on the ground when he bought the property 13 years prior,and by the looks of it before I made a bow of it id say it lay on the ground a whole lot longer than that...prob two to three times longer easy....I had to chase down 1 1/2"+ to get past all the rotten wood,checks,and borers....yours looked easy compared to that one ;) the rot n bugs just did ya a favor by removing the worthless sapwood for you ;)
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: blackhawk on January 03, 2014, 09:35:34 am
So this is on of the ends cut off the fence post. Tiny tiny rings.

Bruce I'd bet all my wood that came from a branch,and if not a horizontal grown trunk...believe me or not but the best wood in that is going to be the tiny ring side where the top of the branch/trunk was(tension side)....sure you can still make bows from that compression wood,but it won't be as snappy and retain healthy reflexed wood(all else equal)as the tension side IMO
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 03, 2014, 09:41:47 am
Yeah, nothing difficult about this one at all so far.  I've gone deeper chasing a ring on perfectly kept staves before.  That's partly to me what makes this one interesting, the really great shape it's in after suffering thru temperatures that ranged from 12 - 13 degrees, to baking in our summer temps of over 110 year after year.  As Dwardo said, white woods would be mush after a fraction of that time.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 03, 2014, 09:58:10 am
For thin ringed osage, I leave it a bit wider than I usually do. Jawge
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Badly Bent on January 03, 2014, 01:05:51 pm
Cool project you got going Slim. Those staves are going to make some good bows and from the looks of the wood I'd guess its some pretty solid and dense osage. Looking forward to following your progress on that well seasoned sage.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Blaflair2 on January 03, 2014, 01:43:52 pm
Blackhawk, I was still gonna try. It split kinda weird cus of the rings that rotted off. Still should get a bow or two outta it
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: bowmo on January 03, 2014, 02:16:50 pm
Love wormed out Osage...the sapwood comes off like chalk
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 03, 2014, 08:06:02 pm
Got about 30 minutes on it after work today.  Have it drawn out.  66 inches long, 1 3/8 inches wide.  Just barely had enough room to get that width in a few spots.  It's ready to start taking it down.  One of the things I love about this hobby is the problem solving exercise with most every build, and I have one I'm looking at on this one.  The knots and character don't concern me, but if you look at the two picks you will see where the back ring is wrinkled.  A ripple in the fabric kinda thing.  Might could lite sand it to smooth it out, ignore it, or go down another ring to see if I can eliminate it.  Be interested if any one else has a suggestion.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: H Rhodes on January 03, 2014, 09:55:50 pm
That is  an odd looking wrinkle. What the heck is going on there?  I think I would leave a little extra meat at that location and sand it down a little.  Looks like you have enough width at that spot to do it's share of the bending.   I know what you mean about enjoying the problem solving parts of bow building.  Every one of them has it's own issues to iron out.  I like the big snakey area in the middle.  Looks like it's coming along good.   
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Danzn Bar on January 03, 2014, 10:37:30 pm
 :o how did I miss this one!  Looks real good Slimbob.  good info.
DBar
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Crogacht on January 03, 2014, 10:58:41 pm
Very interesting. Those benches everyone seems to have look quite good.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: burchett.donald on January 03, 2014, 11:12:16 pm
  I'm no expert but I would be very careful to follow the exact grain around the left side of that knot in your last pic. Never seen wrinkles like that...
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 03, 2014, 11:37:33 pm
Your exactly right Donald. The grain gets weird right there with the small pin knot. I'll sleep on the wrinkle.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Blaflair2 on January 04, 2014, 12:32:18 pm
Any chance it grew around something? Like a nail or something?
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 04, 2014, 01:06:27 pm
Possible, but I would think it's just an anomaly in the ring associated with the pin knot.  It's been these types of seemingly insignificant little places that cause the most trouble, for me any way.  I think I'll consult a few people on it and get some opinions.  Pretty long and bends thru the handle so I think it'll be ok.  I'll leave it wide thru that area as well...I think.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: burchett.donald on January 04, 2014, 01:43:54 pm
  Slimbob do you have room to chase another ring? Another idea would be to sand that side of the stave with a drum sander just deep enough to see the rings from the side then you should be able to see if the grain is still wavy from a side view. Just an idea...
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 04, 2014, 02:02:59 pm
I've pretty much done that.  You cant see any evidence one way or the other.  I can take it down another ring as I have the width to do so.  I'm tilting towards a lite sanding, leaving it a little wide and forgetting about it.  Talked with a guy this morning who said he wouldn't worry about it at all.  I'm pondering....
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: osage outlaw on January 04, 2014, 05:04:01 pm
I have found similar looking wrinkles in osage but they were much smaller than what you have there.  I chase the ring over them carefully and lightly sand it so its smooth around it.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 04, 2014, 05:56:44 pm
Thanks Clint.  I sanded it smooth and I think it will be fine.  Left it a little wide around the whole mess and I'm moving on and forgetting it....Till I start bending it that is.   :o  Touched up all the lines on it, redrew the last 6 inches of the tips to straighten them out a bit and broke out the belt sander.  It's a bow blank.  Few problem spots on the belly where width and depth might be a concern, but I've left it a little wide and can narrow it down if I need to.  I'll get it bending on the next session.  I think.
Some prop twist that I usually don't bother with, but it looks like I can untwist and that will line the tips up.  Reflex on one limb and two deflexed kinks on the other that I'll address once it's bending good at floor tiller.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: osage outlaw on January 04, 2014, 08:10:20 pm
Its looking great.  I bet whoever left those there would be kicking himself if he could see what you are doing with them.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 04, 2014, 08:23:05 pm
I know the guy.  He was a 19 year old kid last time I saw him.  Really nice guy who had a real interest in all this stuff.  From what I've been told he is now making buffalo hide tepees and they are spot on perfect reproductions.  I'll send him some picks when I'm done.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Badly Bent on January 05, 2014, 12:50:08 pm
Looks like you cleaned it up real nice at the wrinkled grain area Slim. The whole back ring looks nice and smooth in the last picture, shaping up nicely. Keep the pics. coming. I always enjoy seeing how other get it done.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: burchett.donald on January 05, 2014, 12:55:26 pm
 Looking great...Good work on that knot area...Very interesting follow along and thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 05, 2014, 04:27:11 pm
Thanks Donald and Greg. Me too by the way. I enjoy seeing how others tackle different issues. I don't think I will uncover any new ground here, pretty basic stuff, but I hope it's both interesting and a bit informative.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Josh B on January 09, 2014, 02:54:08 pm
There was a lot gold left in that ol girl!  I do love old Osage!  Josh
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 11, 2014, 08:41:09 pm
Quick update.  Got some time in on it today and got it bending at floor tiller.  I first took and rounded the edges on the back and cleaned up all the nicks and scrapes on the back where a splinter could lift.  I use the cotton ball rubbed along the back that I picked up from PatB.  I'll get a string on it tomorrow if I get some time on it after church.  This stave is one weird bird and it threw me a curve ball today.  The back is fine, but the belly and sides are a mess.  As this thing layed out in the weather for all that time, moisture penetrated the stave along the sides, in some places it got in pretty deep.  I have areas the look like wind checks (wind shakes) coming in from the side.  I was able to get past all but one and it's a doosey.  On the picture of the knot from the belly side, just below the knot in the pic (so just above the knot, tipward as you hold the bow) this check went deep and the wood was split along it.  To get past it I had to go very thin on the edge of the limb and crown the belly there to compensate.  A bit of a crown there is probably a good thing as the back is dished in, but I cant be sure I'm completely past the crack.  If there is a lesson here, and there is, it is that I could have avoided this altogether if I had not split the stave into and took the bow from the center.  But....If it breaks, it wont be the first time, and if it holds I got a twofer.  I'll take those odds.  We'll see tomorrow.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: osage outlaw on January 11, 2014, 11:24:27 pm
Its looking great!  I love the grain lines on the back.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: simson on January 12, 2014, 05:23:21 am
yeah, looks great so far - I'm watching with interest.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along (need some expert opinions)
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 14, 2014, 03:50:42 pm
Well, I got it bending at floor tiller.  I filed in my temporary side nocks, and decided to do some heat correction, get it shaped up and ready to string it.  Fixed the prop twist as well.  I've got a problem that wont go away....I mentioned that moisture got in on the side of the stave and created some problems in some areas.  Take a look at the one in the pic.  I scraped and sanded it away, or at least I thought I did, but in heating it, it opened up again.  It's 1.5 inches wide, so I can...
 1. Narrow it and see if I can get past it. 
 2. Trap the back and see if I get past it.
 3. Super Glue and clamp it closed.
 4. Super Glue, clamp it and a sinew wrap it.
 5. Something I haven't considered. 

This reappeared on Sunday, and I've had a few days to ponder it, and honestly just not sure what my best move is with it.  It does not feel rotten there in any way, but it is right along the early wood.  Any thoughts appreciated. 
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 14, 2014, 03:55:41 pm
Slim super glue would do fine I believe.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: soy on January 14, 2014, 05:56:21 pm
Ol' pearly boy is far more experienced than myself....but I have not had good luck with that kind of crack :'(
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Eric Krewson on January 14, 2014, 06:06:56 pm
Side cracks are very bad news, every bow I tried to make with them failed.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: JonW on January 14, 2014, 06:19:37 pm
Looking good Slim. I'm in the boat with Chris. Soak that crack with super glue till it won't hold anymore. I would also put some on that swirling knot on the back of the bow just in case.


The first pic after you cleaned up the wrinkle is what I'm talking about.





Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 14, 2014, 06:41:34 pm
  It's not deep.  I took my knife and tried to scrape out any loose material.  It's solid inside.  Pearl Drums responded to my mayday before I finished sending it.  I have taken his advise and filled with CA glue and not clamped it.  I'll let it dry and then refill one last time.  Soy and Eric may ultimately be right, but I'm thinking it will hold.  Their are multiple areas that showed these cracks early on and now I'm down to only a few with the one in the pic being the absolute worse.  Pearl thinks it will hold and I do too.  I've been told the Over/Under is 25 inches. I'm taking the over. Good idea JonW.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Badly Bent on January 14, 2014, 08:04:23 pm
If it were mine I'd super glue it and hope for the best, you've come this far with it so you might as well see what happens. Of course I'll keep working a bow even after I discover a flaw that I'm near certain will cause failure, don't know why I'm like that, slow learner I guess.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 14, 2014, 09:36:07 pm
Yeah, but when you can get one drawn that everyone else said give it up, certain something in that.  Like you Greg, I'll stay with one that's this far along until she blows, and call me crazy (most of my friends do), but I think it'll hold.  If it doesn't I'll spew a little slang for a bit, and then start on the other sister.  I haven't had one break in a while, so I'm due, but this twisted sister's gonna hold together.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Eric Krewson on January 15, 2014, 09:25:11 am
Side cracks show a weakness in the grain structure, even if you work out of them the weak grain is still there and may come back to haunt you.

I had one side rack in the handle of this bow, worked my way out of it and thought all was good until my sinew dried. First time I saw an osage bow "delaminate".

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/bow%20making/failure.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ekrewson/media/bow%20making/failure.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 15, 2014, 01:02:41 pm
Eric. No doubt you are probably right on this. I listen when someone with your experience is speaking. I am however about a days work away from shooting this thing.  So...I'm gonna give it go. It's gonna end up being in the middle of the limb close to the neutral plane, so I'm betting that it won't be under a lot of stress. Thanks for the pic. I'm ignoring it and all the other peculiarities and finishing up a bow. I think I'll flip the tips on it. 😗
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: 4dog on January 15, 2014, 02:36:00 pm
go for it..if nothing else you got something to warm your hands with.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Gus on January 15, 2014, 02:37:32 pm
Yes Sir!!!

I'm A-Cheerin' Ya On!

-gus
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Onebowonder on January 15, 2014, 03:18:41 pm
...So does this mean you do not intend to wrap it or glue it or anything?  You're just going to trim it out and ignore it?  WOW!  :o  That is a little out there!  I think I'd hve to wrap it...

OneBow
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 15, 2014, 03:52:05 pm
Gus and 4dog. Thanks guys!
Onebow...I filled it with CA glue last night. It didn't suck much up so I don't think it goes in much deeper, but I added a bit more couple hours after the first treatment. I don't think I will wrap it. Not sure if that would do much. If it's gonna separate after the ca glue it's probably not gonna be saved with a bandaid on it. I reserve the right to disown the previous statement as crazy talk if I change my mind though.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 15, 2014, 03:55:52 pm
My money is on 5000 shots.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Onebowonder on January 15, 2014, 05:51:39 pm
Gus and 4dog. Thanks guys!
Onebow...I filled it with CA glue last night. It didn't suck much up so I don't think it goes in much deeper, but I added a bit more couple hours after the first treatment. I don't think I will wrap it. Not sure if that would do much. If it's gonna separate after the ca glue it's probably not gonna be saved with a bandaid on it. I reserve the right to disown the previous statement as crazy talk if I change my mind though.

That makes sense then.  ...and I always reserve that same right to myself as well.   >:D >:D >:D

  -  -  -  Oh, and Mr. Pearly is way too adventuresome.  Of course that is probably why he finishes 10 or 20 bows to my 1!

OneBow
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 15, 2014, 06:10:00 pm
Lot's of great talent and knowledge galore on this forum.  It was PEARL DRUMS I went to here.  Funny thing is, he had posted his answer as I was PMing him with the question.  Thanks Chris.  I'm just gonna finesse it as best I can and see if I can sneak up on 27 inches.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: 4dog on January 15, 2014, 07:06:06 pm
5000 shots...are those hunting or target shots?   lol  >:D
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Bowman on January 16, 2014, 05:16:26 pm
I bet super glue will do a nice job on this cool bow. I use "hot stuff" , very thin  superglue on all cracks in my bows. I use it on a Yew warbow and my osage "choctaw" bow. It works.  :)
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Gus on January 17, 2014, 02:07:51 pm
I bet super glue will do a nice job on this cool bow. I use "hot stuff" , very thin  superglue on all cracks in my bows. I use it on a Yew warbow and my osage "choctaw" bow. It works.  :)

+1

I've tried a Bunch of different CA Glues.
You won't go wrong with Hot Stuff and or Lock Tite.

-gus
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 17, 2014, 03:32:30 pm
Applied the CA glue twice, sanded it a bit and applied a third time.  It looks worse in the pic than it does in hand.  It actually doesn't look too bad.  I flipped the tips and added 2 inches of reflex.  Keeping them straight would have lessened the strain a bit, but at 66 inches long bending thru the handle, if that pushes it over the edge then it was broken already as far as I'm concerned.  I'll get some time on it this weekend and should get a string on it. :)
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: burchett.donald on January 17, 2014, 05:24:11 pm
   Good looking stick Slim, I'm in your corner...Want to see this one a success. You've put a lot of work in this. 
                                        Don
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: IdahoMatt on January 17, 2014, 06:05:58 pm
That puppy is coming along.  I love to see the progress you are doing a great job.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: burchett.donald on January 17, 2014, 10:59:09 pm
 Would love to see tillering pics as you progress...
                                                                         Don
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 17, 2014, 11:35:21 pm
Will do Don.  Hope to get some time on it next few days and I'll post em as I go.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: owlbait on January 18, 2014, 03:28:11 pm
Slim, would you mind sharing your thickness dimensions too? Thanks again for all info you've shared.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 18, 2014, 04:21:36 pm
Owlbait, be happy to.  That is a measurement that is a bit difficult on this one due to all the character twists and turns.  The thickness changes all over the place.  It's also thinner now than it was this morning as I have been working on it and it will be thinner still by the time I'm done.  So with that as a qualifier, it is roughly....3/4" thick in the middle of the handle, 5/8" thick coming out of the handle, and 3/8" thick to the bends at the tips.  Hope that's what you needed.  Floor tiller is going good and I've got it on the long string as of a few minutes ago.  Good bit of meat still to come off but it's getting close.  Got me a helper today.  Curt (tipistuff) is doing all the modeling work today.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: owlbait on January 18, 2014, 04:59:39 pm
Thanks again slim. I appreciate your knowledge. I really struggle with attempting to build bows but feel more comfortable when I have some ballpark figures and pictures to follow.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 18, 2014, 05:26:10 pm
Glad that helps.  It is guys like yourself that I have aimed this at.  My knowledge and experience is within pretty narrow margins on this stuff.  I make self bows from staves, typically Bodark, but the wood list continues to grow.  In that little realm I'm competent, and sharing what I know about this art form and passing it along, it simply came thru me from all those that I have learned from.
One last thing, I will usually never measure the thickness.  The length and width are fairly static figures that are needed in planning the bow.  The thickness is dynamic in that it changes constantly, and cant be known until the bow is finished.  those numbers should get you in the ballpark though. 
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along (27 inches)
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 19, 2014, 07:24:27 pm
Well, I'm not finished, but I'm now down to some minor adjustments and finishing her up.  I tillered with a draw knife, rasp and a sanding block.  I and others have talked about the straight edge a good bit.  If you look at the first and second pic, It's drawn to about 10 inches early on.  I run the straight edge along the belly checking the gap.  If there is little or no daylight in an area I mark with a pencil in that or those areas.  If there is an area that bends too much, I will mark it as "don't touch".  The third pic shows the belly as I begin to scrape away the areas that I've marked.  I fix the bend in each limb and get the weight even in both at this time.  Once it's right, just keep increasing the draw length and keep it all nice and even.  A nice even arc is what I'm looking for and the gap tells me when I got it.  Slight bend thru the handle at full draw so the tiller is a bit elliptical.  Booger bear to tiller on this one as there are lot's of bends and kinks and twists, but she's gonna make a bow and I'm diggin' the looks of her.  Again, I gotta say thanks to Pearl on this one as his advice was spot on, on the crack (for lack of a better term).  Don't know about 5000 shots but I wouldn't bet against it.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: burchett.donald on January 19, 2014, 07:55:16 pm
Way to go Slim 8) Nice looking bend...
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: osage outlaw on January 19, 2014, 08:14:16 pm
That's looking great Slimbob!  You've about got that puppy whipped.  I've been working on a similar bow.  It doesn't have near the character or history as yours does. 
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: bushboy on January 19, 2014, 08:41:13 pm
nice bend on that one bob!looks real nice from here1
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Badly Bent on January 19, 2014, 08:48:00 pm
Looks like your coasting to the finish line Slim, gonna be a nice one too. What kinda draw weight you looking at?
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 19, 2014, 09:00:43 pm
Haven't looked at the weight yet Greg.  I figure it's 45 lbs or so at 27 inches, maybe a bit more.  With all the issues on this puppy I kept it pretty lite.  I'll temper it and then weigh it.  It started out with 2 inches of reflex, and when I first unstrung it, it was 1.25 inches of reflex, so it's holding it's shape really well.  Enjoyed the build on this one as much as any I've done.  Lot's of challenges.  Thanks for compliments guys.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: owlbait on January 19, 2014, 09:32:27 pm
TwoThumbsUp! Thanks again Slim, for taking the time to post this. It should be a tremendous resource for the one I'm working in.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: IdahoMatt on January 19, 2014, 09:46:56 pm
Way to get that one bending she sure looks great.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Arrowind on January 19, 2014, 10:11:58 pm
Sweeeeet!  Nice job.  Thanks for sharing the process! 
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Josh B on January 20, 2014, 10:58:35 am
Cool!  I was a bit concerned about the delam, but it seems to be a non-issue.  I haven't had any luck with those, but I always have to try it anyway!  Maybe I'll get lucky on the next one.  Its lookin good!  Josh
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: H Rhodes on January 20, 2014, 11:05:19 am
Slim, you pulled a good bow out of "Old Wormy"!  The explanation and photos of the little block and your tillering process is going to help a lot of folks.  That is exactly how I tiller 90 percent of the time.  I split a stave out of a pretty wormy dead osage tree yesterday afternoon.  This post has me all fired up to start chasing rings on it.  Great work -  I really enjoyed this post.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Blaflair2 on January 20, 2014, 05:59:52 pm
Cleaned up on of mine last night. It's about 9' long lol
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 25, 2014, 01:18:26 pm
About to finish this puppy up.  I cut a Wild Plum sapling back during Christmas, and that is what I'm making the overlays from.  I split it in half, one side for each tip.  I was gonna stain it but I think I like the natural dark streak and the color as it is.  Final sanding and then I'm gonna add some accents, finish and a handle wrap.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Badly Bent on January 25, 2014, 02:50:02 pm
That tip overlay is just plum nice Slim, looks great against the osage orange.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: Arrowind on January 25, 2014, 02:58:35 pm
yeah that looks cool
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along
Post by: osage outlaw on January 25, 2014, 03:08:36 pm
Nice tip!  I like the color contrast.  It will get even better with age.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 27, 2014, 03:47:22 pm
Finished it last night.  I will put it on a new post with full draw and some additional pics but here's a few.  Really happy with it.  Been shooting it some for the last week and it's a very sweet shooter.  I was never sure I would actually get it finished because of all the issues, and there were many, but it's a great little piece of wood that wanted to be a bow.  It's taken about 1/2 inch of set and has seemed to settle right there, which gives it about 1 1/2 inches of reflex.  Thanks for following, hope it was interesting from out there, because this one was a joy for me!
Slim
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 27, 2014, 03:53:00 pm
Love that flat profile Bob, love it.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: toomanyknots on January 27, 2014, 03:53:12 pm
Very nice, them overlays look like bone!
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: Fred Arnold on January 27, 2014, 04:04:50 pm
Nice!!! Love the color of that old osage. I've been watching this one from the sidelines and am glad to see the finished bow. Thanks for the build along.>>>Fred
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: owlbait on January 27, 2014, 04:07:12 pm
Thanks slim. Great pics and information. Looking forward to "The rest of the Story".
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: osage outlaw on January 27, 2014, 04:46:39 pm
Great work Slimbob!  That bow turned out sweet.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: Blaflair2 on January 27, 2014, 05:07:39 pm
Sweet man
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 27, 2014, 05:43:59 pm
Thanks, PD.  I really pampered this one while tillering it and I think that helped with the flat profile, but it's a hard springy piece of wood I started with.
TMK, it does look like bone.  Real tight grain structure on this Plum and hard as a stone.  I stained a piece to see how it looked and there is very little grain to pick up any color so I just left it natural.
Fred, thanks.  Sweet thing is, that's not old Osage with a patina.  That's freshly scraped wood.  Real redish color to it.
Owlbait, Blairflair2, thanks guys.
Clint,  thanks man.  Following your post with interest.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: dbb on January 27, 2014, 05:44:46 pm
Really nice!
I like that profile.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: burchett.donald on January 27, 2014, 06:08:12 pm
Been wait'n on this one Slim...Really nice work and enjoyed following you. Looking forward to you yanking her back.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: Danzn Bar on January 27, 2014, 08:31:54 pm
Really turned out really nice like the profile, and you dress her up nice. 
I like black and red on my girl too.  :) ;)
DBar
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: H Rhodes on January 29, 2014, 09:03:49 am
Strangely enough, I have been snowed in and couldn't get to a computer - in SOUTH ALABAMA....  what a winter.  Anyway, I have been waiting to see this one all dolled up.  Slim, it turned out great.  Love everything about it.  "Old Wormy" turned out to be a bow of the month candidate.  That unbraced profile says a lot.  Your finishing work is awesome as well.  Fine bow.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: PaulN/KS on January 29, 2014, 09:26:08 am
Very nice job Sir.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: SLIMBOB on January 29, 2014, 09:56:04 am
One last thank you on this thread to everyone.  Howard I really appreciate that.  Old Wormy had a sweet little bow tucked up inside there.  I just chipped away the ugly till we found it.  Thanks and I'm honored you like her.  If your interested the full draw is up on the"Bebe le Strange" post.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: curiousiam on March 04, 2014, 10:45:53 am
wow, i followed your build along on old wormy. i have a "stave" that got to the point of( i was perplexed) and shoved it in the rafters in the barn(couldn't bring myself to burn a peice of osage). it has some of the same issues that old wormy had. i am convinced now that there is (or might be) a bow yet in that old fence post.
Title: Re: Old Wormy Osage Follow Along Finished!
Post by: SLIMBOB on March 04, 2014, 01:31:16 pm
Thanks man.  This ones as pretty as any I've made.  The dark wood is really beautiful on it and it's smooth as glass.  My wife has kidnapped it and has started showing it to everyone as her bow.  It's a little stout for her so I'm gonna take a little weight off it and make it official.  Thanks for following.