Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ink on December 31, 2013, 03:30:09 pm

Title: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Ink on December 31, 2013, 03:30:09 pm
Anyone ever make hide glue from the seers knees and toes/hooves. Got my hands on some legs and was wondering if they would make good hide glue. The joints are packed full of small sinew. Anyone ever tried this?
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: mikekeswick on December 31, 2013, 03:41:33 pm
I've never tried it but if you put them in 65 deg maximum water for a 8 - 12 hours. Strain what you've got through fine muslin then reduce the mixture down a bit by letting the water evaporate over a low heat again. Then put it in a tray in the fridge...if it's has gelled before 1 hour is up you are onto a winner!
There will be plenty of collogen in the knees but I wouldn't bother with the hooves.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: BowSlayer on December 31, 2013, 04:47:44 pm
if there is some hide on their you could make hide glue?
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: PatM on December 31, 2013, 08:37:40 pm
Probably doesn't make sense to use parts that are naturally contaminated with high oil levels of an unusual composition.
 A unique type of fat/oil is in the lower legs of ungulates that remains liquid at room temperature. This allows them to have flexibility of the limbs while the legs are very cold.
 Intuition says that's going to be hard to get out of the glue once you start the process.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Don Case on December 31, 2013, 08:42:18 pm
If my soup making experience is of any use shouldn't the fat float to the top?
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: PatM on December 31, 2013, 10:30:43 pm
Yes, but the oil that is in lower legs doesn't behave the same as regular fat.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 31, 2013, 11:28:35 pm
I would have to disagree with PatM.  Fat will float on water, water is the solvent that breaks down the collagen.

But there is very little glue to be made from joints and knuckles.  And without a decent chem lab, you will never turn hooves into glue.  Rather than work with this material, use the hide and the tendons in the legs.  The leg sinews make a very high grade hide glue. 

Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: PatM on December 31, 2013, 11:55:46 pm
It will float, but not in a way that can readily be skimmed off. Normal fat will congeal  but neatsfoot oil would have to be practically frozen to be skimmed off.
 Part of the superiority of Knox gelatin is its exceptionally low fat content.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: JW_Halverson on January 01, 2014, 12:02:37 am
It will float, but not in a way that can readily be skimmed off. Normal fat will congeal  but neatsfoot oil would have to be practically frozen to be skimmed off.
 Part of the superiority of Knox gelatin is its exceptionally low fat content.

...and readily available at all grocery stores
...and NO SMELL (wife/significant other approved)
...and no one looks funny when you make Jello Shooters with it, unlike the hide glue and tequila shooters I served last 4th of July!
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Ink on January 01, 2014, 12:10:05 am
Well I'm all about at least attempting it once. It's been cooking now for a few hours. I'll let you know if if it's worth the time or just another dead end. My next step is to use the tendons and rawhide. Cam the hide on the legs be cooked into glue without dehairing it?
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: JW_Halverson on January 01, 2014, 12:19:15 am
Sure, just run it thru cheesecloth or something else to strain it out. 
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Don Case on January 01, 2014, 02:01:13 am
When it comes time to take the fat/oil off, fold a piece of paper towel in half and lay it flat on the soup, uhh, glue. The towel will absorb the fat in preference to the water/glue/soup. Your wife probably knows this. Really, making glue is the same as making a good broth just use hide shavings and sinew in place of oxtails.
 Another way to get the fat off is to pour the liquid into a tall, narrow bottle. The fat will concentrate in the neck. Suck it off with a turkey baster.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Ink on January 01, 2014, 03:34:38 pm
Lots of good ideas. Whelp so far it's smells horrible. I let it cook on low for about 16 hours or so. Removed the excess junk by straining it thru a cloth. The left over oils have started to stick and dry to the sides of the pan as the water level drops. I'm also skimming the oil as it pools together.  I'll post more after I put it in the fridge later once it concentrates down some more. Gonna try the paper towel trick before it goes into the fridge.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Ink on January 01, 2014, 07:58:15 pm
Whelp i strained the whole batch again before putting it into the container and made sure to have all the oil on the top soaked out of it (the paper towel trick works great). I then put it in the fridge at room temperature and in about 40 minutes it was extremely dense jello. I'm guessing that means it's good glue? Never made hide glue before but I hope this is good stuff. Below is a pick of it sticking to the dish while sideways after only 40 minutes in the fridge.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Don Case on January 01, 2014, 08:08:19 pm
Looks good! If it doesn't work just add some peas and carrots and you've got supper >:D
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Ink on January 01, 2014, 08:34:27 pm
Funny thing is my wife is Russian (not Mail order :P)and makes a dish that's just basically pig knees simmered into glue. They refrigerate it, cut it into to squares, and eat it cold as a delicacy......yuck. She made me try it once before I knew what it was, I almost puked. Freakin pig jello.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: 4dog on January 02, 2014, 12:29:25 am
and she calls me crazy!!! sheesh. :o
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Onebowonder on January 02, 2014, 03:51:36 pm
Funny thing is my wife is Russian (not Mail order :P)and makes a dish that's just basically pig knees simmered into glue. They refrigerate it, cut it into to squares, and eat it cold as a delicacy......yuck. She made me try it once before I knew what it was, I almost puked. Freakin pig jello.

...NOT to say, (I'm sure...) that there is anything wrong or a miss with mail order!  Some of the best things I ever had came to me thru the mail!  The traditional methods of aquiring such worked so perfectly for me, that I've never considered such.  ...but if...

OneBow
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Ink on January 02, 2014, 07:08:43 pm
One bow - finally someone who gets my humor  :p
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: caveman2533 on January 02, 2014, 10:03:22 pm
You could probably simmer that glue a bit more and get it a bit thicker, pour it into a pan where it is much thinner and then let it dry for storage purposes. If you store it like that even in the fridge it will spoil and get moldy after while.. Looks good.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Ink on January 02, 2014, 10:16:36 pm
 Probably gonna freeze half of it and try to dry the rest. Just for the sake of learning. If the drying works out well ( a lot of stray cats in my neighborhood, worried they'll get into it) I'll dry the rest of it.
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: 4dog on January 02, 2014, 10:57:50 pm
you know you looooove that cat!!    >:D
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Ink on January 02, 2014, 11:21:26 pm
That cats my next quiver if he eats my hide glue
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Onebowonder on January 03, 2014, 11:43:56 am
That cats my next quiver if he eats my hide glue

...hmmm I wonder if cat gut, ....fortified with dryed hide glue, would make a good bow string???

OneBow
Title: Re: Making Hide glue from deer knees and toe joints?
Post by: Ink on January 03, 2014, 08:38:34 pm


...hmmm I wonder if cat gut, ....fortified with dryed hide glue, would make a good bow string???

OneBow

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You may be on to something there.