Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: seminolewind on December 31, 2013, 02:10:25 pm
-
Does anyone have any info on how these were hafted. I know that rawhide wrap was used but wanto know how it was attached to the rigid handle. I have been unable to find a build along or a description on the web. Any info would be great thanks !
-
Elijah, I think an outer strip from each side of the handle is brought over and around the head then down the other side then a wet rawhide wrap is applied. As wet rawhide dries it shrinks and the will seize the head to the handle. This is just a guess. ;)
-
So a thin strip of the wood from the handle is wrapped around the groove and the wet rawhide wraps around on top of the wood then down the handle?
-
Sounds good to me!
-
If I'm not mistaken, there are multiple layers of rawhide (probably 3) that run up the handle and loop over the stone. The wood handle stops at the bottom of the stone and doesn't run over the top. There is also a whipping of rawhide at the joint to keep the loop tight and close to the handle.
I've made one with wood running over the top and it was so thin that it broke with the first strike. If there is a wood out there that can be made thin enough to follow the contour of the stone and also withstand the force of a blow, I have yet to find it. :-\
-
That's what I was thinking that the handle must stop at the stone. I have seen handles on grooved stones where the handle was split and wrapped around the stone. seems that if the handle stops at the stone the rawhide would provide a little flexibility. I guess I'm gonna have to experiment with it. Also do you have any ideas on how to keep the wife from yelling at me when I'm peckin and grindin all day ?!?
-
Being a pecker will always get you in trouble at home. ;D
-
I could be wrong but... The one at 11 oclock seems to be different... It appears that the branch has a fork and the stone is cradled in it...
Thanks Leroy
-
Hmmm... maybe get some power tools for the pecking and grinding? And a sound-proof room? That wife yelling thing can age you quicker than too much time in a tanning booth!. :o
-
They were done several different ways. On some of them, the head was simply held on by the rawhide. With others, the head was grooved to hold a piece of stick or rawhide, or a hole was bored into the head and the stick inserted. Some had a groove and a hole. The vast majority of them had the rawhide attached to the handle with a single seam. Where the rawhide reaches the head, it is folded over the top and a Y shaped seam is formed. This way you only have one seam running up the handle.
-
Awesome. I love the close-up.
-
So tipi stuff were there ever multiple layers of rawhide around or in the groove of the stone? It seems like there might be in the original pics I posted how would these be brought back flush on the handle?Also it looks like the handle is completely encased in rawhide is there a seam running the length of it? Finally what handle material would be used.
Thanks guys !
-
Found a cool little thread that helps...
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/57627/Making-a-Stone-Headed-Indian-Warclub-ideas-help-ect
-
Seminole, I went to the thread you posted from paleoplanet. The link takes you to a discussion on stone headed clubs. The guy who started the thread attached a link to his message that takes you to a Sioux club that he wants to use use as his model. The club that he takes you to is not built like the ones you posted on this thread. The ones you posted are very typical Lakota clubs. The one that is in the paleoplanet post is not typical, and is very likely either not old, or made as a tourist object. All of the Lakota clubs that you posted have a single seam that runs the length of the handle, and are put together like the one I posted. Some of them have a narrow strip of rawhide passing over the top of the head before it is covered, and some do not. The sticks on these are not very large in diameter, and tend to be fairly long. The sticks on mine are 20 inches, and 23 inches long, and no more than 1/2 an inch in diameter at the bottom of the handle. I use rough leaf dogwood for my handles, but you could also use choke cherry, ash or any other straight hard shoot. Often, when I go out looking for arrow shafts I am also looking for tipi stakes, tipi lace pins, game sticks, handles etc. I use dogwood for all kinds of things.
-
Out of curiosity, I went back to look at the club being discussed on paleoplanet. The link takes you to a site called Pure Cowboy. The have a section listed as Native American. The items listed on there are a joke. The prices are what you would see with original artifacts, but many of the "artifacts" are a farce. There are a couple of pieces on there that might actually be old, but most are not. The deer leg fan is an absolute fantasy piece! Curtis
-
Here is an original Lakota club. If you look closely at the detail photo, you can see where the handle goes into the head. You can also see, on the top side, the stitching that attaches the flap (that goes over the top of the head) to the handle. It has that characteristic Y-shaped stitch. This one is not a fake. Curtis
-
Awesome yeah that link only had a somewhat helpful drawing of how the rawhide under the casing was tied and tightened on the head. This club you posted (which is bad ass and just what I wanna make) does look like the handle protrudes into the piece. Have stone clubs ever been found with a hole in the side? Or did they just butt up? I have noticed in most all of the authentic looking photos i have found that the flap is sown in a triangle on one side of the handle near the head. I can only assume that the outside rawhide is a casing to cover up the wound rawhide underneath and run the length of the handle. Do you think this is correct? One last thing where is a good place to get this rawhide that dries really hard and almost translucent? I don't want rawhide that is furry.
Thanks !
-
Holes in the club heads are common. There is not a spiral wrapping of rawhide below the outer casing. The outer casing is the only rawhide holding the head in place, other than a thin strip on some that goes over the head. If it has the thin strip, it will not be heavily wrapped below the casing. Many look like they have the rawhide wound around the handle, but that is just an illusion. What they have done is wrap something around the handle while the rawhide is wet, so that it leaves an impression when the rawhide dries. There are hundreds and hundreds of these original clubs in existence. The majority of them are constructed the same way. CC
-
If you can get a raw deer hide, or goat hide, you can make your own. Just scrape off the hair, if it is already dry, or put it in a frame, and lace it up tight, and scrape it off, if it is not dry, and thin the thicker parts on the back, with a rough stone, or 60- 50 grit sand paper, on the underside, after it is dry. ;) you now have real raw hide. Draw the out line of the piece you need, and mark off even spacing for the lace holes, and use a drill and small drill bit, and then wet it, and and sew it on, and let it dry. ;) Pappy probably can tell a better way than me, as he is the "Man" in the brain tanning, and raw hide area. ;)
Wayne
-
Goat or deer is a little thin for this. If you end up using deer, use the neck area for the part that folds over the top to secure the head. The rawhide needs to be pretty damp when it is sewn on. You can sew it with a glovers needle and a leather thimble. CC
-
这是什么东西？what is this？
-
A stone headed club?
-
Some of these original clubs look as if it was soapstone.
Is that so? Anyone know??
-
I think you can find them made of everything from soapstone to basalt. The soap stone would definitely be easier to work. Someone else made the one I own. It has a hardness comparable to marble. Curtis
-
My grandpa told me that years ago that natives around here would stick the stone head in between a fork on a live tree, bind it, and let it grow around the head. Not an expediant method but effective nonetheless.
-
My grandpa told me that years ago that natives around here would stick the stone head in between a fork on a live tree, bind it, and let it grow around the head. Not an expediant method but effective nonetheless.
I have read in books, the same thing, that they would find a suitable limb and cut a hole just big enough to fit the axe, or whatever type of head they wanted, into it. The the tree would heal around it. I don't know if they put any mud, or other material around the limb to keep it moist, and keep insects out.
Wayne