Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: matthijsc on December 30, 2013, 07:57:35 pm
-
Hi there,
working on my second bow here and wanted to ask you for a tiller check since my first blew up in the tillering process. It is Maple.
First picture is braced at about 4" second picture is drawn to 27". The right (upper) limb is bending a lot more than the left. Is this bad?
It is also showing a little set and was wondering if some heat treatment will eliminate this or if I should just stop putting the string in the notches and leaving it on there until I take a picture (this is how I tiller atm).
Thanks in advance!
greetings Matthijs
-
You have a distinct hinge just right of the fade on the right side. You need to remove more material outside of this area to even it out....... Or it could break there. The left side will have to be remove overall to match the right side.
-
Thank you Dane, I will do that and post the progress. Is it bad that the right limb is bending more than the left?
-
Shorten up what you have by 2-4 inches or so, then run a 4 inch straight edge along the belly of the right limb. You will see that you have a gap between the bow and the straight edge. Where the gap is the widest, you are weak. Mark that section as don't touch. Where the gap is the thinnest, remove wood until the gap is the same from handle to tip (4 inches short of the tip or so). Now do the same on the other limb. You got some issues that need to be addressed before you go any farther.
Yes, the right limb bending more than the left can be a problem, that is your weak limb and it will determine the bows final weight. Get it right then work on the left.
-
Get the outer 3/4 of the limb bending more. It needs to bend more in the outer reaches of the limb as yours are only bending in the inner 1/4 of the limb nearest the fades. How much set did it take? I would heat treat it regardless. It should look more like a circle. If you can get a DVD to match up with Both limbs then you are tillering good. You should be able to fit a part of a DVD held any distance from your head should be able to fit on the belly of the bow on both limbs. This is how I started tillering. Works good for beginners and anytime you don't have a real gnarly piece of wood
-
could be the photo but it looks like your tree is canted to the right.if so straighten it and place a level on the handles back till it looks good and also all those tools cause a distraction,a simple blanket or curtain with horizontal pattern tuned up with your tree will help to see what's going on.just a thought,good luck!
-
Thank you, Slimbob, Wood bandit and bushboy. This is really helping me a lot since I dont have a lot of confidence in my tillering skills.
-
It's not confidence you need here, it's knowledge. Know what a well tillered limb looks like and try for that shape. Here, just go for a circle (with the straight edge) and see what you come up with. Good luck. Like it so far!
-
The DVD really helped me out and it usually gets you close if not perfect tiller. Most is by eye though. Boarriorbows on YouTube has a bunch of build alongs and I would watch the tillering ones and stop it when he pulled it back and check the tiller then play it and he would say the correct place to remove wood. Good way to get an eye for tillering. I would also suggest looking at full draw oics on here just to get a better eye for this. It really just takes practice and my first three bows went from bad to okay to better and now I would say there is always improvement but it is pretty dang good! I trained my eye for a year and read all I could until I started my first bow and is why I think I progressed faster than most and didn't break any. So for now I would use the straight edge and or the DVD and just train your eye every night or something just to get a better feel for tillering. It worked for me and I hope it works for you. Excited to see the full draw!
-
Few things.....I reread your post. I didn't realize you had it drawn to 27 inches. Way too far to draw that bow with the tiller off. That is almost certainly where your set is coming from. Don't draw one if you see that the tiller is off when braced, or if you see a problem at 10 inches, stop and fix the problem before drawing it beyond 10 inches. Back off of that by 10 or 12 inches and check the tiller with the straight edge as I mentioned earlier. I wont leave one locked in like that much past 14 or 15 inches and that is only if the tiller is good. If the tiller is off you will ruin it for sure. Even when the tiller is perfect, I wont lock one down like that at full draw.
-
Matt you need to provide picture of the front profile or people will not be able to inform you about the tiller correctly
-
Probably took the bow too far again, but I did not see any hinges before. The only thing I spot in this pic is the left (lower) limb is bending less.
Please be so kind to give your opinion on the tiller! I am learning a lot from your help!
-
Iowabow, just saw your post, what do you mean with front profile?
-
Your stiff midway on the right. Give that 8" section several good scrapes. Then Id say your just fine.
-
Thank you Pearl Drums, I see it now. Will post a pic of finished product when done.
-
That left limb looks perfect. Get the right to match as PD and others said. Good eye, Dane.
Matt, mark a big x where that hinge is. Remove wood from below with a scraper and from above if possible. Exercise the wood. Check tiller at a low draw (15 in or less) until gone. My site has buildalongs.
One more thing...after I brace I use only a scraper-like tool. It's repetitive and takes a long time but hey...this is my hobby and it's fun!
Jawge
-
Iowabow, just saw your post, what do you mean with front profile?
take a picture as if you were standing in front of the bow if someone was shootin it. Without is being strung.
-
Thx Iowabow. Will post pictures of the finished bow tomorrow or the day after.
-
Jawge's advice is spot on!
-
The reason iowabow is asking for a frontal pic is to determine the front profile. It is important to know this before offering tiller advice because different profiles have different tillers. For example if this is a pyramid, the bend will be pretty circular through out the entire limb with only a short section of the tip being stiff. A flatbow (parallel inner limbs) will do more work on the inner half of the limbs and gradually reduce in bend towards the tips. A mollegabet will do all its bending(working) in the inner half of the limbs with stiff narrow levers for outer limbs. All different tillers to get the most from your design. Until we know the design, any advice is best guess. Your right limb looks close to mollegabet tiller, and the left looks like a good start on a pyramid tiller. Either one could be the proper tiller, but without all the details I don't know which is correct for your bow.
Also, as slim said, don't pull it past the point where a problem shows itself. That's very good advice. Josh
-
The reason iowabow is asking for a frontal pic is to determine the front profile. It is important to know this before offering tiller advice because different profiles have different tillers. For example if this is a pyramid, the bend will be pretty circular through out the entire limb with only a short section of the tip being stiff. A flatbow (parallel inner limbs) will do more work on the inner half of the limbs and gradually reduce in bend towards the tips. A mollegabet will do all its bending(working) in the inner half of the limbs with stiff narrow levers for outer limbs. All different tillers to get the most from your design. Until we know the design, any advice is best guess. Your right limb looks close to mollegabet tiller, and the left looks like a good start on a pyramid tiller. Either one could be the proper tiller, but without all the details I don't know which is correct for your bow.
Also, as slim said, don't pull it past the point where a problem shows itself. That's very good advice. Josh
Yep ....
-
I should also point out that it's important that you post a pic of the unbraced side profile of the stave that was taken before you started tillering and caused some set. This is important to show any character, reflex or other issues that would need to be considered in the tiller. If its a straight board , a pic is not necessary. Simply mention it in the description of your bow in the first post. If you've heat bent any thing into the board, then a pic is necessary. With staves, a pic of the profile is always good. The more pics and info you provide, the better advice you'll get. Just so there is no misunderstandings, I'm not insinuating that all the other advice you got on this thread is wrong. Only that there was assumption and oversight at play. I've made the same mistake more than once. Josh
-
I should also point out that it's important that you post a pic of the unbraced side profile of the stave that was taken before you started tillering and caused some set. This is important to show any character, reflex or other issues that would need to be considered in the tiller. If its a straight board , a pic is not necessary. Simply mention it in the description of your bow in the first post. If you've heat bent any thing into the board, then a pic is necessary. With staves, a pic of the profile is always good. The more pics and info you provide, the better advice you'll get. Just so there is no misunderstandings, I'm not insinuating that all the other advice you got on this thread is wrong. Only that there was assumption and oversight at play. I've made the same mistake more than once. Josh
This is real good info for new bow builders, they will be the future educators on this forum. "Best Practice" learned early will really benefit new bowyers and make good mentors for the future
-
Josh I cant begin to tell you how much I learned from you walking me through a build. I pass that knowledge on now every week.
-
I agree that the advice has been good but more info could be very helpful.
-
I would agree with all of that. Well said Josh.
-
I agree about needing to know the type of bow. Good advice by Iowabow.
Just keep in mind that good tiller at full draw should eventually be the goal.
I've made bows were brace looked off but tiller was good.
Also remember that the draw in the hand is what counts too.
Check to see about even pressure as you draw.
LOL.
Fix the hinge first.
Jawge
-
Thank you for all the time taken to post your knowledge, tips and tricks. I haven't looked back at this thread until after I started finishing it (as of this moment the bow is sanded and drying from "oil treatment"). I will definitely use this information in my next build and my next thread/cry for help! Again thank you all so much. I will post pictures tomorrow, when I get the handle on there. Tiller will probably be far from perfect, but hey its my first bow and will definitely make loads more of them!!! I am hooked:P
Matthijs
-
Hi Matthijs,
Nice to see another fellow Dutchman! Dutch bowyers are few and far between so it's good to see more people get excited about this hobby. If you want to meet any local bowyers, please let me know. Perhaps we can hook up to scrape some wood together. I'm from Wageningen.
Your bow looks pretty good, especially considering it is your first! All advice given earlier is very useful so I don't need to repeat any of that. What I will add, is that heat treating the belly of the bow is not something I would recommend for your first or second bow. While maple is a good candidate for belly tempering, it is not a miracle cure that adds ten pounds of draw weight or removes all your set. Only a well made bow will benefit from belly tempering. Belly tempering is another factor in bowyering that you could potentially screw up. Keep it simple for your first few bows.
Question, did you determine the draw weight at this point? It's not uncommon for a novice bowyer that his first few bows will come in underweight, so don't let that discourage you.
Looking forward to the pics of the finished bow!
-
I will post pictures tomorrow, when I get the handle on there. Tiller will probably be far from perfect, but hey its my first bow and will definitely make loads more of them!!! I am hooked:P
Any chance of making some pictures? :)
I'm looking forward to pics of the finished bow!
-
Is your bow asymmetrical? One limb longer than the other can be confusing to the eye...Right limb looks longer...
-
It has been a while, sorry for that. Finally got around to finishing the bow this weekend. Sadly it broke... More motivation to make another one I guess.
The limbs where asymmetrical yes, I don't know why I did this on my first bow but I did :P.
Thanks for all the help!
-
Look like there was a hinge in the right limb right out of the fade
-
Thats probably the place where it broke then. Too hasty with the tillering part... :(