Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Danzn Bar on December 23, 2013, 09:00:12 pm
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Got a few pictures of my progress. Thanks again to Osage Outlaw (Clint) for the sinew. :) ;) Hope to be using it in the next few weeks.
Took a couple of pictures of my caul/form, tip steaming set up and the bow to this point with the (Pearl like) recurves.
Wouldn't recommend PVC for a steaming tube, it's gets a little soft @ 212 deg. F :-[ :-[ :laugh:
Of course I'll be shorting those tips up a bit. Stave was a little longer than needed but it really helps with steaming bending the tips.
I'll post my progress
Comments welcome,
Thanks for looking,
DBar
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Wowza! That looks sweet so far
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Wow bill looking good I'm pitching a tent over here >:D
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Thanks, Blaflair
DLH...........Did you finally get married???? >:D :laugh: :laugh: ;)
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This is going to be a good one Bill. Those are some wicked curves on that thing.
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What is the radius on your curve?
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Let's hope so Clint, Pat B inspired me to try my hand at a short recurve. This one is not going to be as short as his, looking at about 60"- 62" for a 28" draw.
Thanks again,
DBar
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What is the radius on your curve?
2 3/4" R.................Badger
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Nope not yet bill this coming Saturday. I assume this bow will be for bear season 2014?
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That's looking great. Can't wait to see the progress. I love these buildalongs.
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Nice hooks on this one for sure, D. Looking forward to the process. 8)
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More of us should post in progress pictures as they pint a thousand words.
That's looking like a belter 8)
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I'll be keeping an eye on this one. Looking good.
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Thanks Idaho...me too
Pat ....Progress will be a little slow around the Holidays, Might get back to it this weekend. Thanks for posting your build-a-long I learned a lot.
dwardo, I like to see those types of posts also.....hope my pictures get better than in the past, have patience with me.
Hedge, hope to at least be shooting it in by Moontree this year.
Appreciate the comments all,
DBar
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Bring it to the shoot on the fourth so we can see those curves up close. Looks real good Bill!
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Bring it to the shoot on the fourth so we can see those curves up close. Looks real good Bill!
+ 1
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That's going to be a sweety of a bow man.
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Nice!! Hope to see it at Moontree.
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Did you see the timeline of my build, D. Good things come to those who wait. ;)
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Will DO TRACY, see you and Ozzy for sure on the 4th.
I sure hope so Pearl, but my luck with this tight ring osage tree might say different, Although, I do have a few more bows under my belt since I last worked with that tree. Here is a pic of the end of the stave.
Hope to be shooting it in by Moontree ............Greg
Yeah, Pat I saw the time line.. :o My patience has gotten much better over the years but I don't think I could wait that long. :)
Thanks guys,
DBar
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:o After looking at the rings again in the pic, the early to late ratio is not as good as I would like. The other bows made of this tree was very snappy and hardly any string follow, until they raised a splinter. :(.
No matter what it will be a learning experience, and it will definitely will not be my last bow. If this sucker fails under the sinew, I'm giving up on the staves from that tree. >:(
Till next time,
DBar
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Ya, we get some of that junky (or at least I think it's junky...give me dark orange and thick rings any day) here in IL. I always back it with rawhide these days, after watching a few pop a splinter that ran right through the limb exploding the bow on the pulley
Lookin' good so far though.
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holy cow!now that's what i call recurves!nice work man!
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Ive made so many dang osage bows from every kind and variety of osage rings a guy can get, not a dang one broke because of any ring ratio or EG thickness. I say let her rip Bill, those look fine to me.
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I agree. Got my favorite type to use but I've made plenty from far less than ideal ring detail. Go for it.
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Thanks for the encouragement guys,
I'm going for it for sure.
DBar
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I haven't made loads of osage bows but i've made a few with very thin rings and they have all been fine. The last one I did had very thin rings and I was worried about it all the way to full draw but it's shot 100's of shots and still holds an inch of reflex. Seeing as you are sinewing this I think you will have no problems at all. Make sure to crown the sinew as much as you dare! It saves on dead weight and makes it work more than a flatter back.
It's looking great so far!
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Ought to be a good one if all holds together Bill, keep us posted.
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I had a little time to get into the shop.................here is a couple update pictures.
Got it to low braced and it looks like it cutting the middle of the bow just right.
What do you think??
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Got it to low braced and it looks like it cutting the middle of the bow just right.
What do you think??
Wow, comparing it to the little recurve I made, it gives me something to shoot for next time.
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Impressive. Those are some hooks
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Don....Pat B, got my adrenaline go'n with his little 56" recurve..... Get ya a piece of wood and start one, it's a great feel'n.
Blaflair, Rough out the tips tonight. I'll post some pic's of them tomorrow. It looks like it might be a little stiff mid limb on the right side. ...
What do you think???
DBar
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That thing is looking good. Can't wait to see it get more bend
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Coming along great. Keep it up :)
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You got hard part done Bassmaster Bill. Its all downhill from here, except for the waiting to cure.... Be sure you get plenty of string lift off those hooks. You don't want them so big the string doesn't leave contact until your at 25". Looking good so far.
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Idaho,
I'm not going to bend it much more than this ...until I get the sinew on it. At 28" it should be pulling about 65# right now. I'm shooting for 50-55. As Pat B said with his, I want to leave some tillering to be done after sinewing.
Pearl,
From this pic it looks like the string will leave the limb. what ya think?
And that right limb still looks a little stiff mid limb to me..... what do you guys think?
I really like working on tips! :)
Till next time
DBar
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Wow! Beautiful work so far...
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Bill, that thing is looking sharp.
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That is looking great, D. I love the tip dressing. Get the sinew down evenly and you'll have little to do once its all cured out.
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Nice tips Bill, that baby's looking good.
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Make sure to pull it into plenty of reflex before sinewing by reverse bracing it. >:D >:D Once your glue has gelled then increase the reflex. The gelled glue will hold the sinew layer and when you add the reflex it will effectively push the sinew into the concave limb surface ensuring it will not pull up when it contracts and dries. This method works on even the most reflexed of limbs so no need to wrap the sinew.
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Those are some nice curves. 8) I am watching this one.
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WOW that's looking pretty darn goooood!
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So far it's looking great D. Can't wait for the full draw on this one.
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Looking fine Bill, just fine! Love the tip overlays. Don't be scared to get those belly grooves plenty deep, I like about the diameter of the string buried. I feel they help a bunch with statics.
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Thought I'd get on here for a few minutes before my gang gets here in a couple of hours. My wifes got the kitchen smell'n good already.
That's the plan Pat....thanks
Thanks Greg (BB)
Make sure to pull it into plenty of reflex before sinewing by reverse bracing it. >:D >:D Once your glue has gelled then increase the reflex. The gelled glue will hold the sinew layer and when you add the reflex it will effectively push the sinew into the concave limb surface ensuring it will not pull up when it contracts and dries. This method works on even the most reflexed of limbs so no need to wrap the sinew.
I was wondering about wrapping sinew around the ends. I've seen a few videos about that wrapping at the handle and tip area. I haven't see or experienced the sinew curling up, but I can't understand why it wouldn't curl up at other places where the sinew threads ends. Also, I assume that when you wrap sinew around the ends to keep from curling, you cut it off when you tiller the bow. It's done it's job when the glue and sinew is dry. Correct?
I would appreciate a little more discussion on wrapping vs reflexing or both.
So far it's looking great D. Can't wait for the full draw on this one.
Might be a while for the full draw.........Dan, I'm go'in to make sure she's all cured out before I start bending it again.
Thanks for the advice Pearl, I'll work them tips a little more when I start shooting her in a bit.
Till next time,
DBar
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Aaron, this is how I held the bow in reflex while sinewing it. I made a strong loop of sinew around the bow handle. I placed the tips on 2x4 blocks, pulled the handle down and hooked the loop into a small cup hook in the base holding the bow in reflex. You can sinew over the sinew loop and it will become part of the sinew/glue matrix. When the sinew is cured just cut the sinew loop flush with the backing. here are a few pics to help you visualize what I just said. ::)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc007.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/SinewingtheyewModoc007.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/SinewingtheyewModoc008.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/SinewingtheyewModoc008.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/sinewingmodoc001.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/sinewingmodoc001.jpg.html)
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i'm realy looking Forward to your bow! till now it Looks great!
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Well I got time today to sinew the back. please excuse the pictures, I'm not a photographer.
I used a hack saw as a toothing plane to rough up the back, cleaned and degreased the entire back.
Placed a sizing coat of hide glue over the back and waited for it to dry.
I used a string to add a little of reflex.
I put one layer over the entire back, but short of the static bends,
Then added one course down the middle and one each side of that to add some crown.
Then the last layer over all of that, then filled in here and there to smooth out the back.
Wrapped the ends near the static bend so the sinew when drying doesn't raise up.
I'm planning to leave it for 6-8 weeks before scraping and sanding smooth. Hoping then to finish the tiller.
Any comments is appreciated, I'm in the learning curve, if there was something I should have done or should do, please let me know.
I really want to thank Clint (Osage Outlaw) for the sinew, and Pat B for the hide glue. Thanks and bunch guys!!
Thanks for looking,
Till next time,
DBar
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looking great Bill.it looks fast already.
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If you are not going to add more sinew go ahead and add a sinew wrap over the end of the sinew at the tips. One long strand will be enough.
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Pat,
It's hard to see, but take a look at the last picture, just on the right side of the crock pot, I added a wrap just before the curve begins. I plan to remove most of the sinew that goes past into the curves if the skins don't cover it. Is that OK to do? Should I add another layer of sinew? What determines enough?
Sorry for all the questions.
DBar
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Nice work Bill. I like your double boiler setup. Did you have enough of the processed sinew?
I do all my sinewing on the kitchen island when the wife isn't home. :-X
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I see the wrap now. You can just cut the excess off. I've used a sharp razor but be careful not to cut into the wood.
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Looking good Bill! My setup is almost the same with hide glue and bundles of sinew. That wrap will work just fine.
Tracy
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Clint,
Thanks...I used a grill meat thermometer in the water and assumed the glue was at or a little lower than the water. I had to adjust the crock pot back and forth from high to low setting to keep the water between 130 & 140 Deg F
Had plenty of sinew for the three layers I put on... thanks, That's one thing I haven't got figured out, just how much and how many layers of sinew to add and why. :-\
OK ..Thanks Pat
Tracy, thanks and we missed ya at Scottsburg.
If any one can explain or provide some reasoning as to how much sinew to put on, I would really appreciate. The three layers I put on were pretty thin and straight, should I add one or two more layers? and if so why?
After about 24hrs in my dry shop (28% RH) it has dried pretty hard and transparent. If I add more sinew what prep should I do to the back, a sizing coat of warm glue?
Thanks
DBar
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Cant wait to see this one done.
Impressive hooks on it.
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Can I assume Ill see this jewel at Marshall Bassmaster?
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Thanks dbb
Pearl.........too early to know
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Good looking work Dbar... That should be a screamer...
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Thanks, Donald
Well after two days of drying it has pulled a little reflex. The string is is not as tight as it was. It's really going to be difficult to stay away form this bow for 6-8 weeks, it will be closer to 6 I'm sure. ::)
After close inspection I found two cracks in the belly 3/4 the way up one of the limbs, I was very surprised to see this and thought is was too dry in my shop. The RH has dropped to 19-20%. I'm sure it's from the furnace running 24-7 with below 0 deg F temps all night.
I was real concerned until I revisited TBB I chapter on sinew backing. It said that this could happen, and the cracks cause no problems. good news. :) :) Love those books for later reference.
Has anyone else experienced this? And should I fill the cracks with super glue? If so when do I apply the glue, now or just before I start tillering? Here's a couple of photos.
Thanks,
DBar
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This one should really thump and arrow.
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if you can feel the crack,just fill it up with epoxy and a heatgun before tillering,
if it's just a dark stripe and it doesn't run out to the sides, leave it as it is
Looks great to me,
greetings from germany
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I'd fill the checks with thin super glue and the sooner the better. It will stop the checks from growing.
I have an old Jay Massey sinew backed osage and it has lots of belly checks in it.
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Just caught up on this D-Bar. Looks like it is going to be a very fine bow. Lovely work.
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Those cracks are from the sinew shrinking laterally as it is drying. With the low humidity (very fast drying)you have it would be advisable to slow the drying at least for the first week to prevent problems like this.
If you are going to put more sinew on put it down the middle to raise the crown.
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Id keep it in the bathroom for a few weeks Bassmaster. The few extra points of humidity will help. And as Pat said, fill them now with thin thin super glue.
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Thanks guys, got the cracks filled with glue.
DBar
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Excellent Thread!
Thank You for sharing your progress.
Looking Great So Far...
I'm watching and learning.
:)
-gus
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An incredible work, beautiful curves and a very interesting thread.
Greetings from Bavaria
Peter
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Well guys, It's drier that a popcorn fart in this house. ::) ;D If that sinew isn't dry by now it never will be. With the heat going 24-7 due to the below freezing temps for the last few weeks the RH in the house hasn't been above 20% for a long time.
I was working on some POC arrows today and trying to straighten them, broke 2 due them being very dry. They were very crispy. :)
I'm going to get into the shop tomorrow and do a little work on the bow I shouldn't have much tillering left to do. I'll post some pic's tomorrow of the progress.
Have a good weekend,
Till next time
DBar
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Looking forward to seeing your progress Bill
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I'll have to check back tomorrow for the pics, look forward to seeing this one braced and bending Bill.
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Here she is at 54# @28"...........need your eyes on the tiller, what do you think. My full draw length is 27 in the last pic.
I put it on the tree and pulled her to 28" and the string just lifts at the nocks. At my 27 its lays on the limb just a bit. I'm thinking on cutting off the tips and moving the nock in about an inch. Then it would lift at my 27" draw. Do you think I would gain anything?
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Man Bill I hate giving tiller advice, especially from a picture but does it maybe need work mid to outer at top?
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I also think the top limb needs to bend a bit more. The string looks like it is off the bottom tip or real close. Shortening will increase the draw weight but also add more stress to the bow. Being sinew backed will help with that stress but it should be considered.
She's looking good dispite these few things.
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I would cut off just a smidge off each nock and move them in. You will gain a little weight and add more stress, though. Gonna be a nice'n!
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Thanks Greg (BB) and Pat, I also think its not bending enough, that top limb has been difficult from the get go.....
Greg S, I am having second thoughts about cutting some off. I agree with ya It'll pick up a little weight, but right now I don't need it unless I lose more than 3-4# working out that top limb.
I think I'll work out that top limb and see where she's is at that point, and re-think the moving of the nocks then.
Thanks again guys appreciate the extra looks and advice.
DBar
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Bill you can see from the braced profile that you shouldn't be pulling it to full draw until that top limb is corrected from its stiff state...you can see the bow unbalancing as your pulling it back with the top limb tipping towards you...can ya flip it around? Or is the string favoring that side? If the string is perfectly centered and the top limb has been giving you stubborn fits then flip it around...
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I think it looks great just like the other guys said"work on that top limb a little. I agree with blackhawk, you may want to flip it around.
Those smaller recurves can be tough to tiller.
Mark
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Thanks ! Chris :) .....why didn't I think of that, the stiffer limb should always be on the bottom. DAH. :-[ The string runs down the center so I just flipped it around. The top limb has a knot in it at mid limb, I think I can see a flat spot there. Here are a few more pic's with it flipped around.
It pulls much better and I don't feel like I'm fighting it.
Thanks MDS65....yes they can be frustrating. :)
Till next time,
DBar
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That looks great Bill! Flipping it definitely made the tiller easier on my eye. Those tips are beautiful, shortening the bow would absolutely be the last thing (last resort) IMO...
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looks sweet.if it feels right cool1+
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Wow! That's impressive! Nice work, nice work indeed! Josh
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Very nice, Bill.
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Man, that's some nice curves!! Don't touch anything! Just package it up till we meet at Moontree >:D
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Nice work Bassmaster!
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Man that tiller turned out great. Can't wait to see her all dolled up
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Nothing wrong with that. Very nice Sir!
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Very nice sir, ...very nice.
OneBow
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sweet
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Thanks all, your comments are very encouraging.
I'm sorta embarrassed about not realizing I had the bow upside down.....Thanks again Blackhawk for the suggestion.
I did a technique that Osage Outlaw did on one of his bows, I thinned some TBIII with a little water and put three coats over the sinew to help in waterproofing before she gets skinned. I've got just about 25 shots through her at this point. I'm planning on shooting her a lot before adding some skins. Seems pretty snappy. :)
I want to do some handle work by adding some leather and forming it to a bulbous shape. Also, thin the tips a bit more. The string is nicely centered and tracks well when shot so far.
I'll get a few more pics up of the tips and handle after I shoot her in a bit. Hope she doesn't mind me taking her out not all dress up? I'd like to play a little "string music" with her at the Scottsburg shoot this weekend. Quoting Joe Dean Sr. for the old KY B-ball fans.
Again thanks to everyone for the nice comments and helping suggestions. But, some of you guys are scaring me with all of the "Sir's", I think once you meet me in person you'll change that. :laugh: ;)
As always, if you have any other suggestions I'd appreciate hearing them....again this is my first sinewed bow.
Till next time
DBar
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Coooooooooooooooooooooooooool!
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WOW, this is turning out nicely! I have to say, I really like you set up for steaming and bending the limb!
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Very nice ,looks good to me. :)
Pappy
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Couldn't wait the 6 weeks?! Ha. That bow looks really nice, DBar. Great job and I hope it finishes up well for you. Looking forward to seeing the "dolled up" version.
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Wow, thats an advanced bow there. Nice curves.
Does it have much hand shock?
When you guys steam in these big curves, do you just steam for an hour or so, then throw it in the caul and bend all at once, or several sessions?
I am scared to death to bend that much, but want too.
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Wicked hooks on that bow...nice 8)
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Yes I like that bow!
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nice work Bill.did you catch those bass in ky?
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Thanks Arrowind
ionicmuffin...That is a steamer my wife got me for Christmas at Woodcraft a few years back, if I remember right about $80. the steam chamber is a 2" piece of PVC pipe I use for the tips only. I've got a 4"- 6ft long piece of PVC for the entire bow. I've got some pignut hickory that doesn't like dry heat. so my next bow will probably be hickory this winter. I'll use that steam set up to put some reflex in it.
Thanks Pappy hope to be shooting it at the Classic this year.
Parnell, Hell no.....couldn't wait :) ;) It's been just too dry this winter.
bigcountry....don't know haven't shot it much, but didn't notice any at this point. Yep bend it all at once.
dbb and Scottski...Thanks
Steve, why sure....those were caught about 25 yrs ago a 6 and 6.5#er. I've caught many in the last 35yrs between 6-9#s. I haven't mounted any in a long time. I don't do much Bass fishing any more mostly use ultra light and go after those good eaten bluegill & Crappie. But every March/April I've got to try a few times for those big old bass.
Again thanks all. Till next time,
DBar
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niiiiiiice
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Looks right on flipped end for end Bill, bet its gonna be a sweet shooter. Be sure to show me that one when I see ya down at the Classic this spring, thats a nice bow and a great job on those curves.
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I don't know how I missed seeing this all along, but I'm glad I did. The suspense would have killed me. Great job on that! Thanks for showing the progress. Inspiring!
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Got her all shot in, skins added and all dolled up.
Thanks for looking...............
DBar
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And a few more.....
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Very impressive bow.
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Wow! Lookit the hooks on that baby! Nice!
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BINGO!!! She's a real beauty. Well done. 8)
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Bravo Bill! That turned out really nice! Look at those curves. You got my vote on that one
Tracy
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Beautiful job, you nailed it
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Cool looking bow all finished up and spit shined, nicely done indeed.
See you and that bow in about a week Bill. :)
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Damn Bill...that turned out mighty dang fine!!! I'm a sucker for big hooks....bet its smoother than a baby's bottom to draw....you better enter that into bom ;)
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Fabulous Bill!
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Sweet! Looks great!
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That thing looked good with no makeup. Now that you got her all finished up, WOW!!! :o Great job Bill.
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Well done Dbar! That thing is sweet lookin!! dp
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Awesome Bow all around! Great detail to the finishing work. :)
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That thing will spit a mean arra too! It was fast at Moontree. Good job Bill!
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Thanks guys appreciate the comments.
Really enjoyed working on this one. I want to thank Osage Outlaw for the sinew, PatB for the hide glue, and Wapiti1997 for the snake skin, and all the others who provide helping comments.
I'll be seeing most of you in a week or so.
Till then
DBar
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that was some mighty fine bow building there d-bar, mighty fine, bub
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Man, that's awesome! I like everything about that bow. Your finishing work is excellent.
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That thing will spit a mean arra too! It was fast at Moontree. Good job Bill!
Right over the target on the long shot :(
Bill is a good shot, just ribbing him a bit :D
Tracy
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Wow! She's a stunner! I can truly appreciate the time and effort you must've put into that bow. Josh
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Sweet Bill it looks great
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Wow...stunning bow, the finish work really sets it off, not to mention the hooks!
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Very very beautiful bow! I'm taking notes. ;) amazing work man!
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Thanks again guys for the comments
Right over the target on the long shot :(
Bill is a good shot, just ribbing him a bit :D
Tracy
No problem Tracy, I can dish it out, ;) I'd better be able to take it. :)
DBar
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That turned out awesome Bill. I live the look of the hooks. Great job. It's neat when a bow has so many people in the materials, makes for a great story. Great job again.
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I've been watching this one from the start Bill. You did a real nice job man. I wish I could make a handle wrap look that nice.