Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Lukasz Nawalny on December 09, 2013, 10:36:35 am
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I never made flightbows before but we have in Poland in April 2014 first flight tournament. I want make 2 flightbows in 70 lb class - Molly style and turkish hornbow. I just finish 2 bows , but both too light draw weight - about 55 lb at 26 ". I work now on next, stronger bows I hope I can make it on time.
Molly 59 " ntn and 54 lb at 26" - ipe/maple/sinew . 5 mm ipe 5 mm maple. Snaky handle give centershot. On handle white ox horn on tip water Buffalo. 50/50 rate , 2" wide working part on tip only 4 mm. With 25 " 250 grain arrow and 24,5 " draw about 200 fps. It maybe not impressive on flightbow but second bow will be shorter 3-4 inch and stronger , I expect
much more speed.
(http://images65.fotosik.pl/462/d3486d8f4ebe0319m.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/d3486d8f4ebe0319.html)
turkish bow - 55 lb at 27" , 45 NTN , mass only 290 gram before leather cover. Arrow speed similar . Next will be stronger and 3 inch shorter
(http://images65.fotosik.pl/453/766e435175d38e0cm.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/766e435175d38e0c.html)
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Beautiful bows! Love the handle on the molly.
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Great to hear that your country is getting into flight shooting. If you have a chrono shoot many arrows in front of it with any kind of bow practicing your release. Keep your bow arm just slightly bent and learn to rip your fingers off the string while pushing with your bow arm. The bows you show should be hitting at least 220 fps, I suspect you are loosing a bit in your release somehow. A little practice you will see what I am talking about.
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They look great. Would be nice to see more photos.
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When you click on photo you must click in "nastepne" and see more photos. You have rigth Badger, I must practice release. On Chrono test I use simple light arrow not tipical flight arrow, so I think dedicated flight arrow will be faster in thesame mass, what do you think ?
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Looks nice....I went and looked at the rest of your pics of the molly,and i think you can remove quite a bit of thickness and depth off of your levers...here's a link to a good example of just how extreme you can go with a 50/50 ratio molly stylle bow....notice the levers are not only slightly narrower,but also considerably a lot less thicker(and Osage is less dense than ipe),and you can barely distinguish that my levers are much thicker than the working limbs in the pics......normally I don't jump in and criticize,but since your trying g to make flight bows and get every ounce of energy you can I'll share what I think you can do to make it slightly better....and in flight shooting that slightly better can be the world of difference
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,32585.0.html
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Nice looking bows. I had my first flight shots a couple of weeks ago. It was such a great feeling watching those arrows go I want to do some more. I'll have a go at building a flight bow next year (longbow classs).
Good luck,
Del
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Im sure you have right Blackhawk, there is a lot of mass to reduce on molly. This one is to light draw anyway , next time I make something more extreme :)
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Your 55# bow could compete wit the 70# in flight if your arrow is matched well to the bow. Arrows are the real trick with flight shooting. I tried a new design this year and they flew like crap. I borrowed a very well designed arrow from a friend and set a new record. There was close to 80 yards difference in the distance the distance from his arrow to mine and they were the same weight arrows.
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Hey, Steve. Care to share the difference in the arrows?
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Instead of a bullet nose on the arrows I used a long thin tapered needle tip. My theory was that the dynamic center would not recognise the long tip of the arrow as arrow length. I also used turkey fletcing cut way down to the right height but way too thick for little flight arrows.
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When you click on photo you must click in "nastepne" and see more photos. You have rigth Badger, I must practice release. On Chrono test I use simple light arrow not tipical flight arrow, so I think dedicated flight arrow will be faster in thesame mass, what do you think ?
If the arrows are the same mass then they will both have the same initial speed
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Awesome bows, in stealth finish, good work!
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Very nice bows as always!
I agree with Blackhawk on the limb to lever transitions. It's really surprising how little extra thickness you need to make them stiff. Also try to blend the width taper more.
I await the next versions.
I'm planning a Turkish flight bow at the moment too, got the forms made, horn and sinew is ready but the search for perfect core wood goes on....
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Very nice bows. Good luck at your shoot.
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Lukasz - both very very nice! I always love to see the bows you make. Thanks for sharing. I can't wait to see the next ones! GOOD JOB!
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I have reduce mass and results are quite impressive, thank you for advice. Now I finish new shorter 70 lb 26" in theseme style molly, we will see :)
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Very impressive Sir.
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Very nice bows good luck at your shoot.
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I have reduce mass and results are quite impressive, thank you for advice. Now I finish new shorter 70 lb 26" in theseme style molly, we will see :)
Sweet Jesus! 235 fps out of a wood bow. That's impressive! I had a PSE compound with cams back in the 90s that wouldn't do that.
Can you give us details on the arrow weight, fletching, bow weight, etc.?
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I was very light flight arrow - 190 grain , 25 inch long, 6 cm Ipe long insert arrow head , 35 mm x 7 mm fletchings. I shoot with 24,5 inch draw lenght , draw weight of bow on 24,5 is 48 lb. Now I try to make about 70 lb on 25 inch glue in 2 inch reflex, it must be faster :)
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Can you please post a picture of the arrow?
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Sounds like you are moving up. Getting good arrow flight is crucial! Once you get your bow perfected don't ignore the attention a good arrow needs.
I have about 100 light flight arrows I want to take out and shoot from the same bow and see which style is the most effective. If I can get to it before your flight shoot I will share the results. I can tell you for certain that my long skinny needle tips were a disaster. They were great for getting the arrow weight down but fizzled out quickly.
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Flight bows, arrows and flight shooting is new experience for me. Im sure that long way before me, but it is very fascinating. Tommorow I make arrow photo.
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Lukasz,
Very cool bows, I've been thinking about getting into flight shooting myself. Keep us posted, good luck.
Mark
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Great to see more interest in flight shooting! It should be possible to push both designs past the 400-meter mark. You might get even better speed from your molly if you cut down the levers a bit. That way you can reduce them even further, and shorter means faster.
I'm especially looking forward to hearing your results from the horn bows. The current Norwegian record with a horn/sinew composite with synthetic string and wood arrow is 374 meters.
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Kviljo, do you know the approx weight of that bow?
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Kviljio, I've been wondering how the flightbow Marc made for you did. Have you taken it to a competition or tested it yet?
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The 374 meter bow is somewhere around 90 pounds at maybe 22 inches. Not really sure about the exact numbers, but it's somewhere around that. The arrow was about 20 inches long, and it weighed about 10 grammes.
The bow that Marc built for me was fast, but perhaps not as fast as it looked. The most I have gotten out of it is about 270 meters with a 25 inch arrow. I'm sure it could do just over 300 with an optimal arrow and a good shot, but perhaps not much more.
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Thanks for letting us know how it did.
I wonder how that design would do if shrunk even more in length and with a shorter draw/higher draw weight.
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I am not convinced that the very short bows are the answer. They are more efficient and the efficiency plays a bigger and bigger part as the arrows get lighter. They do lack the energy storage of the longer bows. With wood arrows we are limited to 22" and they have to be wood. One of the challenges is to maintain stiffness and still get a light small diamter arrow. We are also limited to natural fletching. I will know for certain this year but some of my not too many flight tests kind of indicate that a bit more mass is needed to overcome the drag of the wood arrow and the natural fletching. Instead of 180 grains maybe 250 grains would be better even if it left the bow slower. The heavier arrow will also be more efficient than the lighter arow and better able to benefit from the energy storage of the slightly longer bow. I believe that 240 fps is fast enough to get 400 yards with an optimum arrow.
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I have anew natural fletch material I will be experimenting with this week if I can get it to stick to the arrow and stay upright, haven't figured out a good glue yet, thinking hide glue might be best. I will share it if it works.
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Rooting for you
Do well
Guy
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Here is my first flight arrow : Pine and Ipe, 190 grain, 7 mm in center 5 mm near ends. Im not so optymistic, I be happy when I brake 300 meter .
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If you are shooting that from a 70# bow I would measure the spine. If you have about 1/2 or no more than 9/16 deflection using a 2# weight at 22" centers you should be good to go. Another think I would sugest is that if you have time build one with a more blunt nose and maybe 50 grains heavier and see how it compares in flight with the same fletching.
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I think for 70 lb about 250 grain should be better, but it deppends on weather for sure. In Aprl in Poland could be high humidity. I see how important is release. Normal arrow 9-10 GPP have 3-5 fps differences , on this molly and flight arrow speed was 210 - 235 fps - 25 fps deppends on release, I must practice with chrono :)