Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 01:25:08 am

Title: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 01:25:08 am
 I would like to thank pat b for this stave of BL from toms stash I was told. This thing is hard as a rock. I've been chasing a ring for on and off 4 hrs. And I'm about a quarter of the way up. I'm about to use my belt sander. Rings are almost completely flat. So here's to hoping I don't mess this one up.

It's about 3" thick and 4" wide, a little twist but not too much to scare me.
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: huisme on December 03, 2013, 01:40:46 am
I love it when I find rings like this, seems like just the right balance between compression/tension strength throughout the stave, especially if you trap the flat ones like this.

hint hint  ;)
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: soy on December 03, 2013, 02:59:22 am
that is one gorgeous stave :o
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: blackhawk on December 03, 2013, 07:16:25 am
Don't be taking that thing to a belt sander to run a ring cus u lost your patience in trying to learn how to run a ring....you just need more practice is all....in the hands of the experienced a stave like that can be easily chased within ten minutes easy,and that's being lenient ....don't give up and try using power tools because a drawknife is actually a hundred times faster...we've all been in your shoes..the first attempt at a bow was with a 15 year old seasoned ossge stave with the sapwood still on and it had twist n knots and such(not a beginner stave at all),and it took me prob close to 13+ hours to chase a ring....I had no internet help,no one in person to teach,and one lil book...it was tedious and yes I lost my patience a few times.....it just takes practice and you'll have to go thru several+ staves to be more efficient at it and it will get better....I can now run a ring on a stave like that with no sapwood to remove in a few minutes easy

Nice stave  8)
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 09:55:14 am
I was just kidding about the belt sander lol. But it's hard as a rock and it's cold out. Not a good mixture for my wrists
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 09:56:05 am
And there's no way u could chase this ring in ten minutes.
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 10:00:06 am
Also it has sapwood on it still, it's easy chasing the ring. Just hard getting the wood to cut. I sharpened my draw knife and everything. I work on it a bit then put it away. It'll get done. Somedsy
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Greenman1867 on December 03, 2013, 10:04:20 am
Okay I checked the glossary, but no joy there.

I am going to take a shot in the dark, and guess that "chasing a ring" is trying to make the back of your stave one continious growth ring? Is that what is meant by chasing a ring?
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 10:16:49 am
Yes. Cutting down to one continuous non violated ring.
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Badly Bent on December 03, 2013, 10:17:41 am
That is some sweet locust Blaflair. Yeah the sapwood is tough but you'll find once thats off ring chasing isn't all that difficult. Just take your time and have a good light source to help determine where your at at all times. That piece of black locust looks so good that you could make a heck of a bow out of it. Take your time shaping it, reducing the belly and tillering when you get to it and you'll have a killer bow.

Yes, You got it right Greenman.
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Buckeye Guy on December 03, 2013, 10:22:22 am
Don't be taking that thing to a belt sander to run a ring cus u lost your patience in trying to learn how to run a ring....you just need more practice is all....in the hands of the experienced a stave like that can be easily chased within ten minutes easy,and that's being lenient ....don't give up and try using power tools because a drawknife is actually a hundred times faster...we've all been in your shoes..the first attempt at a bow was with a 15 year old seasoned ossge stave with the sapwood still on and it had twist n knots and such(not a beginner stave at all),and it took me prob close to 13+ hours to chase a ring....I had no internet help,no one in person to teach,and one lil book...it was tedious and yes I lost my patience a few times.....it just takes practice and you'll have to go thru several+ staves to be more efficient at it and it will get better....I can now run a ring on a stave like that with no sapwood to remove in a few minutes easy

Nice stave  8)

Easy for you to say . these young wippersnappers anyway !

Guy
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 10:29:23 am
The stave is 8 yrs or older pat said. I know it has a heck of a bow in it. Just trying to Knaw one out is some work! I plan on heat treating the snot out of the belly once it's time. Not sure what design I'm going for. It's 68" long. But I was thinking of a bendy handle with a handle build up like pearly posted recently. Something about feeling the bow working in your hands. It's going to be a nice flat bow. I wanna go simple but I also wanna go for it. Lol so final plans not there yet
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: DuBois on December 03, 2013, 11:11:38 am
I'm no BL expert but that sure looks pretty so far. You are gonna have an excellent bow there someday I think  ;) Keep up the good work man!
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Pappy on December 03, 2013, 11:17:53 am
Nice looking stave,and please take Blackhawks advice on the belt sander thing. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: blackhawk on December 03, 2013, 11:32:43 am
And there's no way u could chase this ring in ten minutes.


Wanna make a bet on that?  >:D ...n there's s lot of guys on here who know me personally and have built bows with me,and I bet they wouldn't make that bet against me  8) ..call me cocky and arrogant,but I know I'm right  :-X  :laugh:
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 11:53:50 am
I just don't see how... It's seriously hard as a rock. And it's so flat the knife doesn't cut so well
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 12:18:40 pm
If I took it down farther I believe it's possible. I only went down 4 rings. If I went farther the knife would have a better angle. Gauging from my experience and whatnot it's gonna take about.... Forever and a day. Lol and I have no heat in my shop so those long nights out in are getting colder and shorter. Making a bow in a winter coat sux lol.

Also I wanna try and get some skins for it. What goes well with BL? Rattler or copper head? It's like a Carmel color
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: blackhawk on December 03, 2013, 02:00:51 pm
Its more technique than brute force....ya gotta get that blade into the early crunchy growth and she'll glide right along thru it making it easier...the early growth gives way lots easier than the late wood...but ya can't be danty about it either,and you do have to put some muscles into it....I've taught lots of guys how to run a ring and seen lots of guys just taking scraper sized shavings off with a drawknife on the surface of the late wood cus there scared to mess it up...its just a piece of wood,n there's plenty more out there......so get that blade wedged down into the early wood and pull ;)
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: huisme on December 03, 2013, 02:41:46 pm
And there's no way u could chase this ring in ten minutes.


Wanna make a bet on that?  >:D ...n there's s lot of guys on here who know me personally and have built bows with me,and I bet they wouldn't make that bet against me  8) ..call me cocky and arrogant,but I know I'm right  :-X  :laugh:

Can confirm at least that a ring of BL can be chased in ~ten minutes  ;)
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: bubby on December 03, 2013, 02:53:26 pm
iowabow posted a video of someone chasing a ring on osage and they timed it, faster than 10 min, pearlie would call those blindman rings >:D :laugh:, bub

i'm slow chasing rings too ;)
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: bowmo on December 03, 2013, 02:59:20 pm
How wide is that? I see two bows in there. haha. Never had any luck with IL black locust tho, frets too easy.
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 03:33:50 pm
I dig in and then slow down when I get to the crunchy stuff. It's so hard though. Lol. I've never tried to carve a piece of wood this hard.

It is 3" wide and 4" deep. Before I said that backwards. I was thinking of splitting it again but couldn't chance it. Don't wanna be greedy and mess both up
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 03, 2013, 05:24:00 pm
Beltsander? Don't do it! No power tools untlil you have a minimum of 6 bows done. Jawge
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: wood_bandit 99 on December 03, 2013, 05:37:43 pm
Cut it down a ring above the one you want right on the end of one side of the stave pulling from the center of the stave to the end and once you have a half inch of a ring above the ring you want exposed, you go from that tip and wedge it into the early wood and rip the crap out of it! Then chase the ring under that one just to make sure it isn't violated. That's how I do it. I have done a few osage chasing rings and have gone through 1/2" thick rings, 2 of them, and followed that ring in 25 min doing it like that. It's easy you just have to grow a pair and rip the crap out of it! :o ;) ;D.  Lol
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: DuBois on December 03, 2013, 05:45:27 pm
I see you sharpened your draw knife. It seems a lot of folks like dull draw knife better. I think unsharpened has been better for me so far in my limited experience. Doob
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 03, 2013, 06:18:48 pm
The belt sander was a joke. I know how to chase a ring. This wood is just stubborn and flat. My draw knife doesn't like cutting so flat
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Badger on December 03, 2013, 06:38:53 pm
I think I might narrow that stave down a bit before chasing the ring if you are able to see it good enough to lay it out. I am pretty fast at chasing rings but on wide flat ones where my draw knife can reach the early wood I have to slow way down. Thats where the curved draw knives come in handy. Yes some locust is harder than others.
I had a persimmon stave last month that dulled every tool I had as soon as they touched it including my bandsaw. I got my draw knife razor sharp and it ook the edge off after about 4 passes.  Great looking stave.
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: mikekeswick on December 03, 2013, 07:01:04 pm
Yeah i'm jealous too!! That is a nice stave  ;)
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Joec123able on December 03, 2013, 09:09:50 pm
Send it to Me I love chasin rings
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 03, 2013, 09:20:07 pm
You have a straight bladed drawknife, don't you?  Straight blade and straight back makes it hard to focus work in one area of the stave, that's why I gravitated to the slightly rounded drawknife.

With experience with the draw knife, tool control and confidence, I was able to step up to a very sharp drawknife and eliminate a lot of the brute force.  Sharp tools for me!

No one else has mentioned it, but the early/late wood ratio on that stave puts it in a pretty rare category!  Lovely stuff!
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 07, 2013, 01:33:02 am
Hi, me again. So it's been more than 10 minutes... And this stave has fought me the whole way. I'm still not done. Lol. It broke the handle off one of my draw knife. It didn't have handles so just the metal tangs. FML... Lol, I'll get it, Just a little winded.

It seems like the larger draw knife works a lot better. Till I broke it. But I'm getting the hang of it with the smaller. A lot of clean up May be needed after I'm done. I've worked with woody while life and never m e thing so hard. This thing is a beast! Thanks again pat. I see what it wants to be. Just gotta get her there
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blackcoyote on December 07, 2013, 12:39:10 pm
I'm right there with ya Blaflair, I'm working on one at the moment too.....it's got about a 1/2" of sapwood and it's kicking my butt...but I'm slowly winning, hang in there!
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: TEE TAW on December 07, 2013, 08:10:59 pm
Put that one away tilll you get it down ???
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Gsulfridge on December 08, 2013, 05:45:41 pm
And there's no way u could chase this ring in ten minutes.


Wanna make a bet on that?  >:D ...n there's s lot of guys on here who know me personally and have built bows with me,and I bet they wouldn't make that bet against me  8) ..call me cocky and arrogant,but I know I'm right  :-X  :laugh:
I got $20 on blackbird on this one.  ;)
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: Blaflair2 on December 08, 2013, 06:01:31 pm
I'm about to send it to him! Lol.
Title: Re: BL stave...
Post by: osage outlaw on December 08, 2013, 06:07:40 pm
And there's no way u could chase this ring in ten minutes.


Wanna make a bet on that?  >:D ...n there's s lot of guys on here who know me personally and have built bows with me,and I bet they wouldn't make that bet against me  8) ..call me cocky and arrogant,but I know I'm right  :-X  :laugh:


He's right on all three counts  >:D