Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: WillS on December 02, 2013, 04:13:50 pm

Title: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 02, 2013, 04:13:50 pm
Just finished putting the heads on these quarter pounder arrows, thought I'd stick a piccy or two up for anybody interested.  Nice chunky handforged plate cutters by Milos again as well.

Half inch ash shafts that I split from a stave too short to be a decent bow, and ran them through a dowel cutter.  The last third is tapered down to 3/8". 

Goose feather fletchings, 7.5" long, whipped with black silk.

40 gram hand-forged plate cutters, which bring the overall arrow weight to 115g, or 1774 grains.


(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/Bows%20and%20Arrows/IMAG0639_zps0526e5e1.jpg)

(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/Bows%20and%20Arrows/IMAG0637_zps3e2f3380.jpg)

(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/Bows%20and%20Arrows/IMAG0617_zps14b43b6e.jpg)

(http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb363/Will_Sherman/Bows%20and%20Arrows/IMAG0616_zpsb73d71cc.jpg)
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: toomanyknots on December 02, 2013, 04:44:27 pm
Sexy.  :) I like the noticeably thin thread, probably will be easy on the hand when shooting, and easy on the bow too. Did you seal the thread with anything? It always breaks on me if I don't. I use a transparent glue whenever I find some in a store, although I was thinking of trying out some tru oil, or any similar finish i could paint over the thread with a small paint brush.
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: Del the cat on December 02, 2013, 05:09:40 pm
Nice... don't want to get in the way of one of those bad boys ;D
Del
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 02, 2013, 05:14:57 pm
I tend to seal the shaft before fletching with danish oil, then fletch and wrap, then go over the thread with pva glue followed by more danish oil to stop the pva going white when it gets wet.  Not a good look!

I wanna try making up some verdigris compound at some point, that would be interesting!
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: AndiE on December 02, 2013, 05:43:08 pm
Hi

Great stuff!!!

Kind regards
Andi
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: toomanyknots on December 02, 2013, 06:13:41 pm
I tend to seal the shaft before fletching with danish oil, then fletch and wrap, then go over the thread with pva glue followed by more danish oil to stop the pva going white when it gets wet.  Not a good look!

I wanna try making up some verdigris compound at some point, that would be interesting!

Never thought to go over the glue with a finish (duh), and I always hated the white crap when it rains, thanks!
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 02, 2013, 06:18:16 pm
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: toomanyknots on December 02, 2013, 08:13:15 pm
What glue do you use for gluing on the heads?
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 02, 2013, 08:29:23 pm
Whatever I have lying around! Superglue or 2 part epoxy normally.  I always rough out the cone first with knife and rasp, then heat the head over a flame until it's hot enough but not too hot and push it onto the cone.  That burns/compresses the wood into the perfect shape for each head.  I let it cool so that it contracts onto the cone then yank it off, smear a thin layer of glue over the cone and wedge it back on again.

If the heads are expensive or I haven't got many of them I'll rivet them on as well just for extra security.  Often I'll have drilled down through the arrowshaft maybe 5" and fit a small steel rod both to make the weight for heavy arrows and to reinforce the shaft where it usually breaks off.  Then I shape it and fit the head.  Fairly indestructible which is good for flight arrows as the smallest stone can cause havoc...!
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: Danzn Bar on December 02, 2013, 08:38:56 pm
Very nice....And I know how difficult and time consuming it is to make those thread wraps nice and even.  Good job.
DBar
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: adb on December 02, 2013, 10:08:04 pm
Fine examples of what a 1/4er pounder should look like!
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 02, 2013, 10:35:54 pm
Cheers guys!  Appreciate the generous comments!
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: toomanyknots on December 02, 2013, 11:15:21 pm
Cheers guys!  Appreciate the generous comments!

Thank you for the detailed replies, and they do look very nice! My heads always come off on me after a bit, though I am pretty rough with them. I use super glue too. I was thinking of trying some bonding epoxy, like the kind for metal, and seeing if that would work better. Most of mine that come off are target points that hit something hard (like concrete, haha). On another note, that's one reason I like poplar, is because it can take the abuse I give it. I just can't find any straight grain poplar for crap. I can find super cheap perfect straight grain douglas fir for days at my local menards (hardware store), but it is no where as tough as poplar I find. I beat the crap out of my poplar arrows. I can't find straight grain poplar anywhere though. I did recently find some semi-decent grain ash though. I've been playing around with maple shafts too, they come off my little pencil sharpener-type shaft cutter I made nice and clean with zero tear out, and the stuff I got right now is heavy and real stiff for the diameter.
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: AndiE on December 03, 2013, 04:25:09 am
Hi

Try to get larch shafts. These are the best in my opinion.

Kind regrads
Andi
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 03, 2013, 07:47:45 am
Larch makes excellent shafts.

If you're interested in keeping it traditional, the most common arrow shafts found on the MR were Aspen (or Poplar, pretty much identical) followed by Birch, and Alder.  I love Birch shafts, they're chunky and heavy and very easy to work.  I remember doing 12 EWBS Standard arrows from ash, and cutting the nocks to insert the horn strips took FOREVER.  Blitzed through a set of Birch though.
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: adb on December 03, 2013, 10:47:22 am
I like birch too, but I've found they don't fly as well or as far. They all come out very stiff, and don't fly worth a poo.
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: adb on December 03, 2013, 10:48:02 am
What happened to your pics???
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 03, 2013, 11:13:46 am
They should be back now! Had to reupload as I moved them to a different photobucket album.
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: AndiE on December 03, 2013, 03:08:39 pm
Hi

Yes birch is good too. Poplar are good for lighter warbows and easy to straighten.
But my favorites are ash and especially larch. Larch shafts are heavy, also easy to straighten and nearly indestructible.

Kind regards
Andi
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: outcaste on December 03, 2013, 04:16:52 pm
I like birch too, but I've found they don't fly as well or as far. They all come out very stiff, and don't fly worth a poo.

Guess it depends on the poundage of your bow. When I used to shoot these arrows I found that birch and ash were pretty consistent from the heavy bows (130-155lbs) I used.
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: adb on December 03, 2013, 04:55:25 pm
Maybe that's it. They didn't fly worth a hoot outta my 90-110# warbows.
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: Heffalump on December 04, 2013, 04:40:08 am
Nice job Will! Look forward to seeing you shoot those at Donnington Castle next year matey  :)
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 04, 2013, 08:18:56 am
Thanks John! I'm still struggling to really get on top of 125#ish to push these out.  Anything lower seems useless with them.  Hopefully when I get my 130# bow finished it will motivate me to crack on and move up in weight!

I'm fairly comfortable at 100-115 and on a really good day can comfortably shoot 120ish but I seem to have lost strength recently! Maybe it's the cold weather and lack of practice space?
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: meanewood on December 04, 2013, 05:41:12 pm
Larch makes excellent shafts.

If you're interested in keeping it traditional, the most common arrow shafts found on the MR were Aspen (or Poplar, pretty much identical) followed by Birch, and Alder.  I love Birch shafts, they're chunky and heavy and very easy to work.  I remember doing 12 EWBS Standard arrows from ash, and cutting the nocks to insert the horn strips took FOREVER.  Blitzed through a set of Birch though.

Nice arrows, love the black fletches.
Before I made a set of oak arrows, I made a couple of quarter pounders from oak and found cutting the horn insert slot very hard going. That's when it dawned on me that inserts are pointless in the harder woods. I made the set with no inserts and have had no problems ( max 130 lbs so far).

The fact that the ash set you did were so hard but the birch was easy, leads me to think medieval Fletcher's probably only used inserts on the softer woods and not on ash and oak?
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 04, 2013, 06:05:34 pm
Quite possibly! It certainly would save a huge amount of time for the fletchers.

Then again, I'm not sure how historically accurate oak and ash are for war arrows.  Ascham writes that ash is favourable for war shafts, but only a single sheaf containing one ash arrow was found on the Mary Rose, whereas softer woods like Poplar and Birch were the most common.
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: meanewood on December 05, 2013, 12:52:44 am
Yes Ascham does say Ash and some Oak are best. He is probably having a go at contemporary fletchers for using Poplar (Aspen) but it is light , strong, if made thick enough, straight grained and easy to work with. So having to use horn inserts was a small price to pay I suppose!
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: Heffalump on December 05, 2013, 07:47:35 am
Thanks John! I'm still struggling to really get on top of 125#ish to push these out.  Anything lower seems useless with them.  Hopefully when I get my 130# bow finished it will motivate me to crack on and move up in weight!

I'm fairly comfortable at 100-115 and on a really good day can comfortably shoot 120ish but I seem to have lost strength recently! Maybe it's the cold weather and lack of practice space?

I know the feeling Will  ;) You might have seen Darran's thread on the EWBS forum regarding seeming loss of strength in cold weather? Mind you, he is on another planet with that 162 Poletti self-yew bow eh?  :o Myself and another warbow enthusiast/improver were also remarking on failing performance in the cold the other day at the field. I'm well on top of anything 100-110 and can rove all day with that weight no problem. I'm still building up in draw-weight and got reasonably comfortable with shooting livery arrows in 2's and 3's through a 120 bow during the Autumn, but am now struggling a bit with the colder weather and not so many shooting opportunities. I think this is probably true of most people when it comes to working at your current maximum draw and trying to maintain good form. It's certainly gonna be a while before I can do justice to the 130 Del has just made me  ::)

p.s. Doesn't bode well for a sub-zero shoot at Donnington in March does it  :o :laugh:

TTFN,

John T.  ;D
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 05, 2013, 08:03:13 am
Yeah Donnington could be interesting haha!

I think I might make myself a 45lb yew longbow and write "150@32" on the belly in marker pen...  I'll also hollow out my Livery and Quarter Pounders and replace the heads with plastic.  Nobody will know...
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: Heffalump on December 05, 2013, 08:08:24 am
Yeah Donnington could be interesting haha!

I think I might make myself a 45lb yew longbow and write "150@32" on the belly in marker pen...  I'll also hollow out my Livery and Quarter Pounders and replace the heads with plastic.  Nobody will know...

That's the spirit mate! >:D Just be ready for a quick "Exit stage left"....if anybody mentions scrutineering  ;) :laugh:
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 05, 2013, 09:56:06 am
"Whassat? They wanna weigh the arrows?  Hang on, me tent just blew over...."
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: Yeomanbowman on December 05, 2013, 11:49:45 am
All bows will stiffen in the cold, yew is well known for it.  You may not be weaker, just pulling a 'heavier' bow in the cold.  Having said that, cold fingers don't help either!
Title: Re: EWBS Quarter Pounders
Post by: WillS on December 05, 2013, 12:04:05 pm
Yeah there's nothing like cold fingers on ultra thin FastFlight... yowch.  Piano wire!

I don't think cold muscles help either, but John touched on what I think is the most important point - lack of practice!  With the winter here, it's either raining too much or land owners aren't too keen on getting up early to let you use certain fields etc, and while a week or two with no practice is one thing, as it adds up it becomes really tough.  That's my excuse, anyway...