Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Poggins on December 01, 2013, 07:29:43 pm
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This is my first stab at a Molly , Kentucky coffe tree .
Started out with 18" of working limb but after working the tips a little more may be a little shorter , if memory serves me right it's 62" TTT , I'll have to remesure it , been working on four bows at the same time , 7" handle , 2" at the fades tapering to about 1 1/2" at levers , levers will be 1/2" wide when finished ( at 3/4" now ) .
The left limb may be the upper limb , it has a bump just out of the fade that is throwing me off , I've shot it half a dozen times this evening just to see how it done.
Pulling 50# at 27" right now , I want to get the tiller pretty close then heat treat the belly . Still need to work the tips over and the hanle . If this works out the spoonbill skins will go on the working limbs and copperhead skins on the levers with antler tip overlays .
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It looks to me like the right limb is bending good and the left is a little stiff in the outer half of the working area. Have you braced it yet?
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+1 Matt
Call me crazy but I think you might be able to get a little more taper in the levers too.
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Try and get a bit more bend at the end of each working limb (just where the non-bending levers start). If it's taking set in one area, let that tell you something.
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yep the left limb is really flat just out of the fades, the other not as bad, on the left i'd work all but the inner third the right mid out
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(tiller) what ever the other guys say, hows is that Kentucky coffe tree to work with, is it quite hard say compared to oak or hick..?
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Sorry I haven't gotten back very quick , shot a doe halfway through my post and been tracking her . Hit the shoulder and did not go any further , did retreave my stone point and arrow after zig zagging in the direction she went , traveled eighty yards before the arrow fell out , no blood trail to fallow feel lucky to find my point .
Yes the now has taken set right out of the fades on both limbs , both limbs took the same set .
I have been working the left limb with a scraper , I'll work on it some more when I get a chance and try and get the outer pat of the working limbs to bend some more.
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My point survived with a chip on one side.
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Bow101 , I haven't worked with oak or hic. yet but it's a little softer than oak.
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I worked the outer 1/3 of both limbs and worked on the left limb to get a smother bend , tapered the limbs more and narrowed the levers some more. It was late when I got done last night so I'll try and get some more pics this evening . I checked to make sure my skins were wide enough and I'm good to go with them just need to wipe them down with alcohol to remove the oil and sand them .
The first pic was at about four inches brace , I twisted my string up and had it to five inches but didn't get a pic . It had about three inches of fallow and after setting for an hour after unstringing it settled back to two inches .
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Ok , I think I have photo bucket figured out now .
The fallowing pics are full draw , brace , and just after unstringing it : sorry it got dark on me before I could get pics .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/2CD017AD-A3ED-46BD-B641-F341B7CD0072-960-000002351861F2FC_zps5fd7cdff.jpg)
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(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/A8C3602C-33F0-477A-AB90-F2CA3CC93BF3-960-00000234D5B2A925_zps4085ff2d.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/E0165675-5A32-4215-915A-61FE063E944F-960-000002354586F680_zps822fc73d.jpg)
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Sorry about the belly showing up so much , I need to stand on something or cut my tillering tree down some .
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Okay new pics , sorry about poor photos and I know , don't do this to a bow ( full draw for about half minute) . How's it looking so far , included a pic of one of the tips after I tapered it more.
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/E62AB956-891D-4E30-A629-7F2CEBA09A2C-1390-0000038373436E40_zpsee18c3e4.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/BEA62AB7-6FC8-401C-AC63-5049802F27BF-1390-000003832C8BDAE7_zps99e8e32e.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/62265B3B-8E1E-4E75-B145-9629BE431F9E-1390-00000382DF56F272_zps93a30248.jpg)
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The lack of set says it all. Very nice.
fyi....you don't need photobucket to post pics on this site !
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Thank you Steve .
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Belly pics , before and after heat treating .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/B14094B8-CB44-42AD-A836-17AC8AACF427-1475-0000038D9BADF500_zps6e8d5ce3.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/5413C699-505C-460A-9358-B7A7E8F657C5-1475-0000038D2D739387_zps8737ea98.jpg)
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Bend is much better, shoot it in and put some lipstick on her
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Looks like ya corrected your problem :) ....but next time don't be pulling it that far(especially with the white woods) as you did in the first set of pics if you care about performance of the bow and such....I wouldn't have pulled it further than your braced pic because it already shows a flaw,and never pull past a seen flaw in the tiller...the white woods are really prone to set when pulled past a flaw and break down much easier than forgiving woods like osage
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Thanks bubby , thanks Blackhawk , I know I was doing wrong pulling the bow that way . It had string fallow when unstrung after the first pics but after setting a couple of days it settled back close to where it started. That one limb gas a hump just out of the fade and it was messing with my eyes , plus my weekend was coming to an end and with the weather comming in I may not get to work on any bows for over a week . I figured if I got it tillered I could heat treat the belly and it would have a chance for the moisture to equalize in the limbs . U clamped it on my form but only at handle and tips and it will stay there for ? , they put me on the night crew this winter and it looks like we have sleet and snow till Sunday so that means I'll be working twelve hour shifts maybe longer .
Still have some work on the handle and tips , I was concentrating on the limbs first . I never pulled it past 27" and 52# while tillering , still pulling 50# at 27" even after all the wood I removed .
Thanks to everyone's help on this , and it answered a question I had a few months ago ( will KCT make a Molly ?) . Can't wait till some if my osage seasons and make a Molly with some of it .
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Looks like you have a shooter. That heat treat color is quite a dramatic change. I love it. Can't wait to see her all dolled up.
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Started getting the skins ready today but I have to work tonight and in the morning so I'm not sure when I'll get back to it .
Took the bow out hunting this morning but wasn't much moving with the cold south wind , thought I could jump a rabbit but no luck .
After heat treating the lower limb stiffened up more and I need to work on it , outer half not bending as much as the upper limb, it's a little wider so I'm going to try and match the limbs width up and that may be enough to get it corrected ( they are the same width at the fades to about halfway out then the lower is a little wider than the top out to the levers) .
Got the skins sanded and saved a peace of thicker skin for the striker plate .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/2B7E9A2B-2E6E-4E78-ACE4-A6CBFAE38C38-2289-000007F700151E27_zps8f88eff0.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/E19AC127-BF6C-4895-9558-964684F6924B-2289-000007F6C5813B30_zps31f50691.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/29013861-C075-4B06-9BD0-2A380641EA76-2289-000007F7406CDF3B_zps1694edcd.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/F86F3A6B-DBEA-4552-9923-660E3BF0B85D-2289-000007F78AC0CA8D_zpsd6833b4e.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/19843453-41C9-42F4-94D7-6EABBC992563-2289-000007F800A1C3CF_zpse5dfa50c.jpg)
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8) Bow................ never seen Spoonbill skins like that, where did they come from?
DBar
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They are from the back , one down each side .
The bumps are from the lateral line up , the lateral line is a raised line also and the belly is smooth . I got enough from one fish to back at least three bows .
So far the hardest part of dealing with the skins has been the oil , I washed soaked them in water and Dawn dish soap the stretch them out to dry , oil still came out while while they were drying so I'm using acetone to get as much of the oil out as possible , sanded them and will use the acetone again befor soaking them and glueing them on . I'm going to use TB III to glue them on . The skin is tacked flesh side out , you can see the hole in some of the pics , it will be under the leather handle wrap when I get done .
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8) real 8) I've see a few spoons / paddles like that not many the bumps through me....nice fish... how was it caught ...snagging, gill net, hopfully not a cast net.??? ya the oil might be an issue. let us know how it works and looks on your bow.
DBar
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Snagged it on the Cemeron river about ten miles from my house . You can see a patern on their skin and feel a rough spot , the bumps come up when drying the skins . We are allowed one spoonbill a day and there are days you cannot snag for them . This is the first year I've saved skins off the fish I get , I have the skins off a thirty pound flathead in my freezer , the spoonbill weighed seventy five pounds , I'm going to try and keep more next year .
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Man people down here in Oklahoma catch fish that size just by "noodling" they stick their whole body in a den and hope it isn't a beaver and a catfish will bite them and they are pulled out. I have seen guys and kids with scars up there whole arms from the teeth and some people shove their whole kid in those holes. That is a nice fish and we have a few down here. Always wanted to catch one...
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I would like to try and snag one this spring wish they would stock them more around here but the public didn't want them competing for food with the bass ::) also hear the caviar is great and can fetch a pretty penny but that's a little illegal.
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Been noodling since before I could swim ,we don't take some of the chances that others do , not worth it. Personal best 54# flathead three years ago , my brother's 62# . We don't show them off much , just a way to put meat in the freezer . My family has been fishing this way for generations , my great grandfather was fishing Oklahoma befor it was even a state .
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I got the limbs the same width now , 1 3/4 at the fades out to nine inches then tapering down to 1 3/8 at the fades for the levers . The bow is just shy of 62" TTT and 60" NTN with a 7" stif handle .
Levers are 8" long and 19" fade to fade .
The lower limb is stiffer than the upper .
The bow pulls 54# at 28" , just heavier than what I was aiming for ( specs given were 50# at 28" ) usually I come in under what I want so I'm not sure if I want to lower the wight or not .
I got it back out on the tillering tree for another look so here is the pic.
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/B35408E2-6F6C-4B73-B7B9-330C0EC191C6-3064-000009134E364CC2_zps03195712.jpg)
I took it out hunting this evening but the deer were no shows , on my way back in I did get to test the bow out though . A diller was feeding at the edge of the field so I figured I'd get rid of one of them .
I shot both of my blunts at him when he was out a little over ten yards out , he wasn't jumpy even when one of the arrows went right under him . After he calmed down a little he moved a little closer and at about eight yards I put a brodhead right behind his shoulder , when he took off he ran under a blowdown and hung the arrow up allowing me to finish him off with the blunts , them things just don't want to give up .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/15758A11-EA3F-4A21-ADD7-2BB35DFB716D-3064-0000091301235D94_zps19ab547a.jpg)
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way to go ...we have those things in western ky ...watch out Pearl there comin :) :)
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Man, armidillos are tough things. I shot one behind the shoulder with a broadhead, it ran off and I shot it with 2 blunts one in the back and one in the head region and it broke off all 3 arrows and went into its hole. These were carbon arrows out of a 45# fiberglass bow.
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The only beef I have with the dillers is their digging , for some reason they think the only grubs around to dig for is in my food plot or yard ( can get rough on a mower ) , they are like miniature hogs root'n up everything .
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Nice bow and congratulations on that possum in a half shell >:D...and the fish!!!! Wow
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That's some fish!!
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Nice job on corrections. Love the grain and the way the belly side looks, profile is nice...Would love to see finished pics of the skins.
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The skins are my next project , getting the copperheads ready for the levers.
Have had messed up hours at work or I would be glueing the spoonbill skins this evening .
Should be able to get the skins on this week( need to before anymore bad weather gets here ) , I've put over fifty arrows through it before the diller .
Thanks all for the help .
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Got the skins on this evening , love the way it looks .
I didn't rap the skins with anything , I just stayed with it to make sure the sides stayed down and worked the skins around to get any air out and heavy glue pockets that formed when I worked the rinkels out . I just soaked the skins enough to make them pliable enough to get the skins to lay down good around a couple of nots on one limb .
With the darker TBIII I didn't stain the back so the natural dark to light fade in the skins will show , they are darker at the grip and slowly fade towards the tips , there are some lines that can still be seen in the skins from the fishing line when the fish rolled in the line when I cought it , adds character to it .
I'll let it set a day or two then clean the sides up .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/C0D9D7B8-C6D3-4BD0-8C62-D74BC1533E8B-3907-00000A807D88E220_zps672fa1f6.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/696D8DD8-C13E-48EB-8B3A-60D8EE9FDB7A-3907-00000A80CCCA6EB8_zpsfd19be55.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/D69E4292-5385-470A-8F2C-08D59CC4B5E4-3907-00000A8183882A78_zps166ada14.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/9D83D798-509A-4E18-B7CB-8932A55234DB-3907-00000A8142B7602D_zps843a5a85.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/C9A64B21-E171-4678-A6AB-D45837416319-3907-00000A80FFDE6F4E_zpsd5a498aa.jpg)
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Really like those skins
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Those skins are super cool. I love the dark color
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Nice job Poggins. Looking good from here. The spoonbill skins are a nice uniquness to it. There was someone on here a couple years back from out west that was doing sturgeon skins. Keenan maybe but they got it figured out when it comes to oil removal. I would send him a PM and ask him to post something on processing fish skins and getting em de oiled. I have yet to do a molly but I'm impressed with your KCT. That grain sure jumps when you heat treat it. Look forward to seeing this one in person come March.
JonW has done several mollys, he says that its like having two sets of fades and that you tiller from both. I always thought I would keep that in mind when I did mine.
Dillers are shoot on site around here for the same reason your shootin em. I've killed 5 of em with field points and blunt force trauma to the head when they hunker down in some rocks. Lost a couple more into their dens but they were hit hard an were'nt coming out with that arrow sticking in em.Quarting away right behind the front shield and the reticulated section works pretty good. I figure to try a head shot next time, when they got their heads burried rootin you can stalk up to about 5yds if yer in the woods. I hear they eat alot of it south of the border. That myth about em carrying leprosy has most non starving gringo folk afraid to eat em( they make good lab subjects for it but are'nt carriers unless they escape from the lab). I have'nt gotten hungry enough yet to try it but I suppose if'n I walked up on someones fire and they was cooking some I would give it a go. The one I skinned out of its shell had nice pink meat, kinda like pork. Heck bbq sauce makes everything taste good. Danny
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Thanks Danny , I think I got the oil out , took plenty of Dawn soap and acetone but I think I'm in good shape . This bow is for the OSS 2014 bow trade , I will be handing it over to its new owner at the banquet , I'll try and get another started as soon as I can and hopefully have it at OJAM , maybe the new owner will have this one at OJAM .
Working with the spoonbill skins has been an eye opener , I'll try and get as many skins from friends that go after them and maybe have some for trade in the future .
I'll bet there will be some wanting to try a Molly at OJAM or the campout so I'd better try and get a few more under my belt , just need to get the tillering down pat , we like to get as many people shooting their bows in a day or two after they start one . Most of the bows built there are osage bows but you see other wood from time to time .
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Ok , bad weather and holiday out of the way so I can try and finish this bow up.
This bow has been a good one to learn on , I've been doing several things with this one that I've never done before . The first that I've put skins of any kind on and I'm putting both fish skins and snake skins on , and the first time I've put tip overlays on , thin antler ( second try I got a good set of overlays , messed up when getting my first set ready , tried to get the tip shape first , now after super glueing this set on I'm glad I left them large , they stuck down fast with no time for adjustment and almost stuck my fingers to the bow).
I've got the tips done and getting the copperhead skins ready for the levers , also used a peace of the spoonbill skin for the arrow pass .
In the photo of the tips with the snake skin on them they are not glued yet , I was getting them ready and layed them on the bow the way I had pictured in my head and snapped pics while I was there , I think they are going to look good across the back and down the sides , if they where wider I might have even wrapped them all the way ( if I had thought of it I might have but would have waisted some skin that I saved back for later ).
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/5CF5666B-2BA9-4C61-8FD4-6090BD0D51DF-4655-00000B58874AFCB7_zpsef914cde.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/D9AE70F0-FCB7-4B0F-A32B-3C508406FF90-4655-00000B58B3FECBB0_zpsa38e6c49.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/6D3BB6C6-4090-49F6-A2AB-301A45C7450C-4655-00000B58C1993997_zpsbb88146c.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/2FC8BEEE-1906-403A-9F96-DC1FA34A7D00-4655-00000B58DE6203F1_zpsb74ecf4e.jpg)
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Looks great...Keep us updated. :)
DBar
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Thanks , I'm still a little over three pounds above my target weight which is good , I have put close to two hundred arrows through it since I've started shooting it , my draw is 25" but the bow is for a bow trade and the specks given to me were for 28" so I've been putting it on the tillering tree and exercising it to its full draw length , I've tried to pull it to the full draw length while shooting but I have trouble keeping on my bag target ( ruined a couple arrows doing it ).
Should get the copperhead skins on this afternoon let it set for a couple days while the glue dries good , some final sanding and ready to seal it all up .
Been kicking the thought around of glueing some pigmy rattler skins to some leather for the grip ., just to stay with the whole fish and snake skin deal.
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That would be a very interesting grip ??? Love to see some pictures. I have made a couple of arm guards like that and thought of doing the same on a grip. I'm not sure how the sweat and hand oils would react with the skins.
Are you going to wrap the skin completely around the lever?
DBar
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No , they are too narrow at the ends , I wasn't thinking about it till I already cut the two peaces from each end , I was thinking about saving the five inch long peace in the middle for later .
Not sure how the swet would be on the skins , I was wondering what glue would work , all I have right now is TBIII , TBIII and contact cement . I thought about using superglue on the skins like you would to hold the scales down the way they do when placed on the back of a bow , it would have to be done after it was put on the bow to keep from cracking , one could use masking tape above and below the grip to keep the glue off the rest of the bow . I was going to use the pigmy rattler on the tips but they were lighter than everything else and I didn't like it but it might work on the grip .
I'm going down the sides of the levers and out to the nocks , I may have to stop at the tip overlays if I can't trim around them and get the skins glued down good .
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I got the copperhead skins glued on , that was a little bit of a challenge as thin as the skins are , they kep trying to fold under on the edges and moving around but I got them looking nice .
I'll wait till everything is dried good befor cleaning it up , wouldn't want to tare the skins now.
I'll try and get better pics also , need to get use to using my new camera anyway , may be around the first befor I can get better pics posted .
Any ideas on glueing snake skins onto leather , would smooth leather lightly sanded work or rough out leather , I have both .
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I've trimmed the skins and everything is looking good , a little more work and I should be about ready to finish it up ( remove the scales on the snake skins , be sure the edges of the skins are glued down good , and some finish sanding ).
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/F635099A-A278-4708-8354-C18EE809635A-5012-00000BC411CAACEE_zps3d6e1378.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/FDA26F6F-2D9B-4156-B175-84D679B7E87B-5012-00000BC476F61D6D_zps126fc36c.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/8902DF26-D07B-4834-BD3C-CC842E3DC52E-5012-00000BC47E6F61D7_zps102331ab.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/A32870FC-1BEC-4486-974C-3DB9CBC8A3DA-5012-00000BC488EDB5B9_zpsd4e06084.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/B2B0D828-F9A4-429E-A59B-A313B4EF3D89-5012-00000BC491521FA2_zpscec2d8a8.jpg)
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Thats looking good Poggins. I was a little sceptical about wrapping them up the sides but looks good so far. Did you use TBII for the skins? Its what I have found works good. Looks like the spoonbill skins have browned out some and match the copperheads well. Danny
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Danny , I used TBIII , the spoonbill skins were wet in the earlier pics and are dry now , they may darken back up a little when I put a finish on it .
I will also go back and double check all the edges os the skins and make sure they are glued down good , if anything looks iffy I will use superglue to make sure they stay put , as long as there are no edges that can catch on something I'm sure it will be ok .
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That's look'n real 8). That gives me some new ideas for the levers and nocks on my next molley....
Thanks,
DBar
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That's really looking great poggins I like how use brought the skins to the bottom of the nock like that.
Can't wait to see it all wrapped up. :)
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Thanks DBar and Matt , yep , rapping the skins all the way around the levers would have been nice , I just need to quit trying to save every little scrap peace of skin . If I had cut the skin in half in the middle it would have worked that way .
I've been thinking about what to finish this bow with , this is the first bow that I've put skins on and have been using the search to see what others use on fish skins .
When I get this one all wrapped up I plan on starting one for myself , it will have a set of spoonbill skins on the back of it also and probably be another KCT Molly ( my osage needs to season longer ).
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<snip>I've been thinking about what to finish this bow with , this is the first bow that I've put skins on and have been using the search to see what others use on fish skins .<snip>
Never done one myself, ...but I saw one covered in grass carp skins. He used Tru-Oil on his and it was perfect to my eyes. ...and Tru-oil is sooooo eazy to apply!
OneBow
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Ok , its been a few days since my last post ( I keep getting an error message saying that I have been banned from Primitive Archer, been using my iphone but its working on my laptop ).
I used wipe on polyurethane on the bow , still need to finish the handle wrap ( just a temp on the bow now) and make a string for it .
Used my good camera this time to take the photos, the full draw is a little fuzzy, trying to count down the self timer in my head and draw just as the camera was going off.
Tried to pick a good spot to take pics but with 30mph winds wasn't easy ( bow kept trying to blow over), I haven't posted pics from my laptop so it may take a while ( going to try and get them on photobucket first).
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Ok , I was able to get back on so here are the pics .
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/DSC_0121_zps1e142acc.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/DSC_0115_zps78763132.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/DSC_0109_zps54d8eca8.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/DSC_0107_zpsdcae3a31.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/DSC_0105_zps73a616f1.jpg)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r800/Poggins/DSC_0100_zpsd32a4e17.jpg)
Still not sure why I get a message saying I'm banned from PA , says I've used multiple user names but I only use Poggins , I I didn't think I posted anything that would upset anyone.
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Nice bow. Oh and I also get that same message when I try to get on here with my phone only.