Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DuBois on November 27, 2013, 12:59:29 pm
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I sinewed an ERC last night. Checked it this morning and it had gained deflex over an inch? Kinda weird? It had 1/2" reflex when sinewed. I weighted it down promptly. No big deal I guess but it got me wondering what would cause it. Moisture?
Ever seen this before?
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Maybe the wood is overpowering the layer of sinew you applied. How many layers did you apply? I would try to get it to reflex before adding more sinew, but I can see a deflexed sinew bow ( inexperience talking here, bring out the salt shaker ) working great, especially with recurved tips or siyahs...
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Yes moisture !
You want to tie it down, or reverse string it before you start !
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I'd say it was the moisture going into the wood that caused the bow go into deflex after adding the sinew. If you string the bow backwards before adding the sinew, but only a few inches, it will help the reflex in the finished bow. You should notice the deflex lessen and reflex increase as the sinew and bow dries.
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that has happened to me before.
I'd suggest that you just leave it and as the sinew dries it'll pull the bow into some reflex.
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I think its cool hearing stuff like this. Ive done a bunch of sinewed bows using 3 different woods over the years and none did that. None of them gained a lick of reflex either. Yet we hear about both situations happening often. Just goes to show you how it can vary so much.
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that has happened to me before.
I'd suggest that you just leave it and as the sinew dries it'll pull the bow into some reflex.
Yeah, I decided to just leave it alone and see what it does.
I think its cool hearing stuff like this. Ive done a bunch of sinewed bows using 3 different woods over the years and none did that. None of them gained a lick of reflex either. Yet we hear about both situations happening often. Just goes to show you how it can vary so much.
I had never known this could happen, all I heard of was gaining reflex. Took probly a minute to get my jaw off the floor this morning :o. Good to know it's not just my sinewing method.
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Did you size the back the day before with hide glue mister?
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I sized it, but only a couple hours before but it was dry since I had it in the room with the wood stove after sizing.
Hey Kevin, how ya doin man? I put on 2 fairly thick layers ending 5" from tips.
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Doin ok bro. Busy as an insomniac beaver. Havent had time to touch the horn and bone you sent me. I have thought about it though. How did the honey locust work out for you I sent you?
Hey, by the way, does Santa need to send you a camera for Christmas? Cause this thread AINT GOT NO STINKIN PICS!
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The back of the bow absorbed water and expanded while the belly did not, I am sure it is only temporary while the moisture reaches its equalibrium. The sinew will continue to shrink as it dries and the back and belly will soon become the same moisture content.
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Doin ok bro. Busy as an insomniac beaver. Havent had time to touch the horn and bone you sent me. I have thought about it though. How did the honey locust work out for you I sent you?
Hey, by the way, does Santa need to send you a camera for Christmas? Cause this thread AINT GOT NO STINKIN PICS!
Actually, I just got a new camera thanks to my 3 year old son who decided to give the old one a toss across the room onto the tiles.
Still got the locust n my stash...someday I gotta get after it;definitely has potential >:D
This thing went from 1/2" reflex to total of 4" deflex by this afternoon and seems to have stopped tonight. No before pic but here's the recent bend. Let me make sure I explained this right. The handle was 1/2" off the wall and tips touching wall when held with back to wall before sinew. Next day the tips were each 2" from wall with handle touching. That would be 4 and 1/2" change.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/004_zpsa194b2ee.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/004_zpsa194b2ee.jpg.html)
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Ohhhhh mama... lookin forward to seeing this complete! I'm lovin the way that looks even though it seems to go the wrong way.
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Ohhhhh mama... lookin forward to seeing this complete! I'm lovin the way that looks even though it seems to go the wrong way.
Yeah, I had to mess with this for some reason...I'll keep ya posted.
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Tie it into reflex now!!!!
I agree with the wood absorbing the moisture but if it keeps going this way it'll be ready to string in a couple of days......
It's a good idea to tie the bow into reflex (or heat treat it) before sinewing. Remember that sinew can stretch 8 times more than the wood so there is no way it'll break. The reflex means at least you are using some more of it's potential compared to it being put on a straight bow.....or a deflexed one >:D
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I bet it starts slowly going back about now that it has stopped deflexing. Maybe a weeek r two and it should go back into reflex. I would not reflex it now because the sinew is allready layed down and is not designed to compress.
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Did you size the back the day before with hide glue mister?
PD may have been onto something!
I sized it, but only a couple hours before but it was dry since I had it in the room with the wood stove after sizing.
I think this might be the real issue. It is very dry in here and cold outside. I don't have a moisture meter but it must be real dry and then putting it in stove room. I wonder if I didn't let the glue absorb slow enough when sizing??
I bet it starts slowly going back about now that it has stopped deflexing. Maybe a weeek r two and it should go back into reflex. I would not reflex it now because the sinew is allready layed down and is not designed to compress.
Yeah, I think you're probly right. I'll leave it alone and see what happens. Kind of an experimental bow anyway.
Brings me to another question. I am scared to tiller it when time comes cause it's too dry and it is ERC ::) What to do what to do??
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Sizing requires more than one application of glue as far as I'm concerned.
What I will typically do is apply sizing coats of glue until the back is shiny with glue.
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Once dried the sinew adds a lot of integrity to the ERC. Take it slow and exercise regularly...gradual at first then more and more.
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Sizing requires more than one application of glue as far as I'm concerned.
What I will typically do is apply sizing coats of glue until the back is shiny with glue.
Does it gum or gel up on you? Do you sand between coats?
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It does not gum or gel as you're applying it. It can easily be painted on with a foam brush.
No, I don't sand it between coats,, though I do allow plenty of time for each coat to dry before the
next is applied.
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PS: back to only 3" this morning! She's turnin around ;)
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Mike, it won't keep going. A bow at full draw is only stretched less than 1%. A very small amount of moisture on one side of the bow only will cause that wood to slightly expand. It will shrink right back up. If the bow was put into reflex before the siew was applied I would agree with you but I would not reflex the bow with wet sinew on it. It will shrink as much as it is going to shrink no matter what position you put it in. I would maybe slightly reflex it but not much.
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Haha, hey doobie man... maybe your putting the sinew on the belly instead of the back? Jk of course. But I wonder how an upside down erc with sinew would do?
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Haha, hey doobie man... maybe your putting the sinew on the belly instead of the back? Jk of course. But I wonder how an upside down erc with sinew would do?
Isn't the back the side I see when I am gonna shoot it?
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no. you're looking at the belly when shooting
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Personally I look at the target when shooting !
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If you did it backwards, try it like that. Use the sap wood as the compression wood, and be sure its flat and not crowned. Id love to see an ERC built inside out.
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Personally I look at the target when shooting !
Sooo, that's at least part of my problem :o
If you did it backwards, try it like that. Use the sap wood as the compression wood, and be sure its flat and not crowned. Id love to see an ERC built inside out.
How about I send you a stave and YOU try it? 8) >:D
no. you're looking at the belly when shooting
Just kiddin Sonny. I did actually put it on the back
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I was hoping you were kidding. Hope you are having a good Thanksgiving bud....
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......Down to only 1" deflex!! This is sooo exciting! Like a little reward every time I come home ;D ;D Am I a wood nerd?
I was hoping you were kidding. Hope you are having a good Thanksgiving bud....
You too Kevin.
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She'll be back into reflex before Santa even gets his sleigh packed up... :D
OneBow
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Turkey sinew adds deflex, most dont know that.....you didnt use turkey sinew did ya' doob's?
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Turkey sinew adds deflex, most dont know that.....you didnt use turkey sinew did ya' doob's?
No turkey sinew applied, just a turkey applied sinew!
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/001_zpsb4476ef9.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/001_zpsb4476ef9.jpg.html)
Back to it's original reflex this morning!! Now just gotta see if she keeps goin 8)
I wonder if this fluctuation from reflex to deflex and back put additional stretch on the sinew or if it matters at all in any positive or negative way. I guess I'll never know fer sher.
She'll be back into reflex before Santa even gets his sleigh packed up... :D
OneBow
Santa's way late but maybe he can sprinkle it with some magic dust so she don't explode during tiller!
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One of the reasons I always reverse brace before applying sinew is that I believe that the sinew stretches as you tiller the bow and you lose any reflex it gains as it dries
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The strongest sinew actually comes from fleas but it takes forever to get enough of it.
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The strongest sinew actually comes from fleas but it takes forever to get enough of it.
Makes sense, they're some springy little bastards.
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The strongest sinew actually comes from fleas but it takes forever to get enough of it.
Most dont know that either, good info Steve.
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The strongest sinew actually comes from fleas but it takes forever to get enough of it.
Leg sinew or back sinew?
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I disagree... I think it comes from kangroos...
anyway- its not actually sinew, but the rubber-like protiens in the fleas knees. supposedly 97% efficiant elasticity.
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...and someone wants to disagree with a statement made about flea sinew :o
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The strongest sinew actually comes from fleas but it takes forever to get enough of it.
Yeah....and then you have to process them............ :o >:D
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He's just playing along... sheesh
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It is a little known FACT, that the Kangaroo flea has the strongest sinew on earth, but due to constant hopping of the roo and the flea combined, it is nearly impossible to harvest even one leg. I know this because I am an honorary member of the Australian kangaroo flea society. That being said, I had to settle for some peeyoony elk sinew.
OH, I almost forgot. The stave is now at 1" reflex so it is 1/2" past where it started before sinew. I never really cared to have it in much reflex, just to have it well protected from tension.
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Now that was the funny stuff of legend.
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Thought I'd give an update ;D
Now at 2.75" reflex >:D
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/003_zps6005b84f.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/003_zps6005b84f.jpg.html)
Will be having a tillering party soon ;)
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Not sure how far along you were with tillering when you sinewed the bow but if you had a ways to go it might pick up some more reflex once you start removing the belly wood. Hopefully you can keep a couple inches once you have it shot in.
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It's actually dangerously close to beyond floor tiller now.
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That's looking good,glad it all worked out,so far. ;) :)
Pappy