Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: AndiE on November 25, 2013, 03:17:33 pm

Title: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: AndiE on November 25, 2013, 03:17:33 pm
Hi

For the upcoming winter my project is to make a self warbow out of every wood that is possible and so I was searching the net and found some. But on some I am not so sure and so I want to hear your opinions, experiences, stories...
- ash (for light warbows not bad, but always problems with set and folds)
- hazel (for light warbows not bad, but always problems with set and folds)
- hickory (for light warbows not bad, but always problems with set and folds)
- laburnum (Has anyone ever seen a laburnum warbow? Or has anyone ever seen a straight piece in warbow dimension?)
- lilac (Really? Has anyone ever seen a lilac warbow? Or has anyone ever seen a straight piece in warbow dimension?)
- osage (heat treatment necessary?)
- wych-elm (sapwood yes or no? heat treatment necessary?)
- yew (no need to talk about it! ;) )


Kind regards
Andi
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: Stoker on November 25, 2013, 04:04:50 pm
Thanks for keeping a open mind  ;D ;D
Thanks Leroy
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: WillS on November 25, 2013, 04:14:10 pm
Ash makes really good warbows if you're very careful.  There's a 160# ash bow on one of the EWBS forum threads.  I think jaro makes some stunning heavy ash bows as well.

You have to keep it very flat on the belly and trap the back heavily.  A rounded or D section ash bow will chrysal and take heavy set.  It does really well with heat treating but doesn't always need it.  Let the set during tiller guide you regarding heat. 

Can't speak for the other woods aside from yew as I haven't worked with them yet.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: AndiE on November 25, 2013, 04:50:17 pm
Hi

Thanks for the tips WillS.
So it is better to make a flatbow warbow instead of an english warbow with D-profile?
Any tips for how to find the best quality ash?

Kind regrads
                    Andi
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: WillS on November 25, 2013, 08:48:06 pm
Yeah a D-section will never really work unless you have some crazy good ash.

Here's a couple of links you should find useful

Laburnum 100# warbow (character bow!)
http://warbowwales.com/#/laburnam-record-bow-copy/4570492142

Ash 128# warbow (check out how flat the belly is!)
http://warbowwales.com/#/welsh-ash-record-bow/4562210258
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: AH on November 25, 2013, 10:48:33 pm
how about elm?
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: toomanyknots on November 25, 2013, 11:27:21 pm
While your at it, give black locust a try. I'd like to know how it does as a heavy bow, I got a real clean piece of it.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: AndiE on November 26, 2013, 05:39:40 am
Hi

Yes, I forgot locust/robinia and also elder, boxwood, lemonwood and maple/sycamore.

Now it seem that they are getting to many and I will have to divide them for small/light warbows, warbows and heavy warbows and start this winter with the small/light ones.

Does anybody know more wood or has made experiences with an other wood in the list?

@WillS: Thanks for the links! The laburnum warbow looks crazy.  :)

@Livefortheoutdoors: Elm (wych-elm) is already listed. Or do you think of an other conspecies?


Kind regards
Andi
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: gianluca100 on November 26, 2013, 05:46:36 am
treat black locust like ash, flat(ish) belly and rounded back. depending on the piece you have, you can go a bit narrower than with ash.
black locust has very good tension characteristics.
It's an amazing bow wood, once you can leave aside the round belly concept of the english warbowers and conform to the real quality of this wood  :)
It reacts good to heat treating too.

ciao,
gian-luca
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: Bearded bowyer on November 26, 2013, 05:59:16 am
Lilac?!?
now there's an idea, there is tonnes around where I live, has anyone come across a lilac bow of any sort?
matt
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: WillS on November 26, 2013, 06:11:32 am
The crazy Norwegians make Lilac warbows.  I've never seen one, but I know that Daniel Taralrud has made some Lilac warbows. 
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: toomanyknots on November 26, 2013, 12:56:31 pm
Hey, I can jump in on this warbow testing with some amur honey suckle. I have a roughed out bow of it that has been sitting and seasoning since last year I believe. It has a bit of reflex in it, is around 75", and is definitely seasoned, so it should be a great test piece for it, to see what it can handle. I know it has been done once on paleoplanet a couple years ago, but I honestly was not too satisfied with the draw length in the full draw pictures I saw, they looked under drawn, and these were the only examples I have ever seen. They all had follow as well, but they all were made from deflexed staves anyway I believe ( I could be wrong about that ). I mean they looked like nice bows, I am just saying the wood didn't look like it was working very hard, and I am just curious what it can do and the abuse it can take because the stuff is harder than crap. Well, I mean it is reasonable tough, not tough like ipe or anything.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: Badger on November 26, 2013, 01:58:35 pm
  Toomanyknotts, I think honeysuckle would make an outstanding warbow, I had a small 40" piece last month I was playing with, only a 3/4" diameter. I was able to get 50# out of it drawing 24". The high crown finaly lifted a big splinter but didn't have a catastrphic break. Very tough wood. It kind of remined me of ocean spray a little bit.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: toomanyknots on November 26, 2013, 04:14:53 pm
  Toomanyknotts, I think honeysuckle would make an outstanding warbow, I had a small 40" piece last month I was playing with, only a 3/4" diameter. I was able to get 50# out of it drawing 24". The high crown finaly lifted a big splinter but didn't have a catastrphic break. Very tough wood. It kind of remined me of ocean spray a little bit.

Sounds promising! I got another stave around 65" or so that is reasonably wide, with 4" reflex, that I think would make a great d bow. Was the honey suckle you used the bushy amur honey suckle? The stuff I got is non-porous as heck. It seems to loose moisture very slowly too, and take a long time to dry out.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: AndiE on November 26, 2013, 04:35:02 pm
Hi

A honeysuckle warbow??? You guys a crazy!  ;D

We also have honeysuckle here in Germany but it goes dormant every year from october to april and so it never gets that thick. So there is unfortunately no chance for me to get this wood.

So ash, robinia/locust and maple/sycamore a better for warbows in flatbow shape!? What about osage than? The same? Than I will make those someday when I am through with all the other woods that fit with D-shape belly / a real english warbow design.

Here in Germany there are a few very good lilac bows but I have never seen a ELB or a warbow out of it.

Does anybody know whats the maximum possiple drawweight of a good quality hickory?

Kind regards
                    Andi
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: Bearded bowyer on November 26, 2013, 04:44:19 pm
Any one up for a competition to see who can make a warbow out of the craziest wood?
Are there any pics of the lilac bow Wills? I'd love to see just how mad they are!
 :)
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: Bearded bowyer on November 26, 2013, 04:45:04 pm
apple?
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: WillS on November 26, 2013, 05:00:56 pm
No, I can't find any!  :(

There were a few posts over on PaleoPlanet by prolific warbowyers claiming Lilac made excellent bows, might be worth starting a thread on there asking for pics?

I want Bowslayer to make a warbow out of pine....  ::)
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: Bearded bowyer on November 26, 2013, 05:13:28 pm
PINE  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: AH on November 26, 2013, 11:58:20 pm
Hi

Yes, I forgot locust/robinia and also elder, boxwood, lemonwood and maple/sycamore.

Now it seem that they are getting to many and I will have to divide them for small/light warbows, warbows and heavy warbows and start this winter with the small/light ones.

Does anybody know more wood or has made experiences with an other wood in the list?

@WillS: Thanks for the links! The laburnum warbow looks crazy.  :)

@Livefortheoutdoors: Elm (wych-elm) is already listed. Or do you think of an other conspecies?


Kind regards
Andi

ooh, I need to read more carefully. Although there are more species of elm..I've used different type of elm but never wych elm, and every time I find it works real nice, although it's a pain to split.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: toomanyknots on November 27, 2013, 12:26:29 am
Speaking of elm, what about red elm? I have a piece of it that will make about 3 warbows if I wished, about 82" long.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: gianluca100 on November 28, 2013, 03:55:41 am
Elm was reported as been made into english warbows in former times. I think it was Roger Ascham.

I find Elm a tad better in compression than ash and at least as tension strong. So here also a flattish belly and a good rounded back rule.
If you heat treat it you can get away with a rounder belly. And, the longer the bow the more you can round the belly too...

Here is a good webside (you prolly know it): http://www.norwegianwarbows.com/makeyourownwarbow.htm

ciao,
gian-luca
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: AndiE on November 28, 2013, 04:29:58 am
Hi

Many long-/warbowyers say that yew is the best and elm the second best wood for english war-/longbows. The only two woods that can keep up with those are laburnum and especially boxwood.
Does anyone know a warbow or longbow made of boxwood?
Boxwood staves are very rare in this length and quality. I have 2 but they are unfortunately only 66 and 69".  :(

Kind regards
Andi
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: WillS on November 28, 2013, 07:09:34 am
Boxwood I'm not sure about, as I've not come across it in the UK (I think the term can refer to loads of different species) but Ironwood makes great warbows.  Jake Fenwick made a stunning ironwood warbow a while back.  Not sure how easy it is to get hold of though.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: adb on November 28, 2013, 10:19:25 am
When you say ironwood, do you mean ipe?
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: toomanyknots on November 28, 2013, 10:27:59 am
When you say ironwood, do you mean ipe?

I think most of the time, ironwood refers to hophornbeam, most of the time around here it does anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrya_virginiana
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: PatM on November 28, 2013, 10:35:28 am
HHB makes a fantastic warbow.  I still remember testing that first one Marc made about 10 years ago. I was able to test it at its peak and it was something else.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: WillS on November 28, 2013, 11:09:04 am
Def. Not ipe, possibly hhb.  He has a YouTube video detailing it.
Title: Re: Wood for self warbow?
Post by: AndiE on November 28, 2013, 01:26:40 pm
Hi

Today I made 10 elder staves and they all look like they will be nice warbows someday.  ;)
They are all 76-86". With the 86" I think I will try a real heavy one.

Kind regards
Andi