Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: knapperhead on November 15, 2013, 01:26:22 pm
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For the first time in my life, I find myself with no Pine trees around. I grew up in E. Texas and they were everywhere but not here in Central Tex. There are some in Bastrop, about 45 minutes away, I guess I could go there.
My question is, is there a modern equivalent just for display arrows?
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Do you have any Birch trees around your area? What type of trees do you have in your vicinity? JB Weld and charcoal, or magic marker.
Wayne
P.S. I am sure there are people on here, and in Texas that will be glad to supply you with a good amount of pitch, or resin, to do some projects.
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It looks like River Birch is the only one around here and it is East of here but I have never seen one. We have elms, oaks and cedars mainly. Some black walnut, willow and hackberry as well.
Thanks for your help...
Matt
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Since you said modern ,epoxy mixed with ground charcoal !
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that's a great idea, thanks Guy !
I'm just making a set for display right now, hopefully I'll have all the skills and materials needed to make some meat makers when I finish these.
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If you have River Birch or Black Birch, you can take some of the bark, and put it in a can, and cover it, or just leave part of the lid on, and place it on some coals, and let sit, till it starts to smoke, and then take some tongs, or sticks, and pour the tar into another can, or container, and let it cool, and then take some and heat it, to a liquid state again, and mix it with bees wax, and bunny poop, or deer, or cow poop, or some other form of a binder. Usually about fifty fifty wax to tar, as rule of thumb, and just enough fiber to help in binding the mixture. You can experiment with different ratios. You may need more wax, if the mixture is too brittle, or less if it is too soft, etc. Black Birch, by the way is what they used to use for Birch beer, and I believe also it was used make an anti bacterial, I can't remember the name at the moment. Try that and see it works for you. any of the Birches should yield tar.
Wayne
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great info, thanks bender....
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Good old hot melt glue is great, although not primitive. It has a little give to it and take impact well. So it is a natural fit for hafting points. Not to mention you can find a ton of it at most thrift stores for next to nothing.
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Since you said modern ,epoxy mixed with ground charcoal !
+1
Tracy
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To get a good black color for a non primitive adhesive. When I was building guitars for filling inlay work we would use black tempera paint powder mixed with epoxy. It worked great. You would add it like the charcoal. You can get enough to last you close to a life time for around four bucks online. If you would like I could post a pick of it on some inlay work.
Matt
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HOT GLUE ADD CHARCOAL.
I always add antler filing to my pine pitch glue. Lot less messy.
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You may want to try Cooketarrows Idea !
The epoxy works well but is very permanent !
Guy
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Great info, thank you all.
Matt, let's see some of your work......
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One of the nice things about pitch glue is if a point comes loose or out of alignment all you have to do is heat the head a bit until the pitch re-melts, re-set the point with a spin test to see if it is straight and let it cool. Can't do that with modern glues. You can heat them to make them release but then you have to clean everything up of old glue and re-glue the point back on making sure it is true. back.
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I'll try and get some up soon. I'm working late tonight but maybe tomorrow. I'll post them in the Around the campfire section.
Good point Pat. No pun intends
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I've used industrial hot glue you get at the hardware store. Far stronger than craft hot glue. Good sub for ppg and cheaper than buying archery hot melt glue. Bur I've gone with ppg just be cause I want to go natural.
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From what I have read, in US areas where pine or birch was available (wet colder areas) it was used by native Americans on arrows to hold points on.
In areas where pine and birch were not found (hot dry areas) only sinew was used as this worked well in hot dry areas.
In some intermediate areas both were use.
So, if you can't find pine or birch resin you probably don't need it!
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I don't have any access to pine pitch but I have had success using hide glue. I have a container of pearlized hide glue that I picked up years ago. I heat it with water in a double boiler. I use it to glue both the points, the sinew wrapping and the fletchings to the arrow shaft. I haven't had a chance to shoot much with these arrows in the cold weather that we are now having, but they all survived at least one shot into plywood without loosening.
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interesting Mark, it makes sense
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I am right there with Buckeye Guy. I have used it with great success. You have to really powder the charcoal very good or you will see the big peaces in the epoxy and as Pat said it is very permanent so get it right the first time. I use Gorilla glue mix epoxy. Good luck.
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I have been using hide glue with sinew, covered in TBII for water resistance. Nice solid points and have not had any issues with loose heads either....
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Bob Berg of thunderbirdatlatl sells a hafting raisin compound of natural materials - his own mixture - and that stuff is fantastic. Go to his side and look for 'shop' ----> 'other'
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Juniper sap can work as a substitute but takes a lot of work gathering, you can also smoke some of the modern adhesives with a match to get them to look like pitch
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I have been using hot hide glue and really appreciate it. The nice thing is that you can either make it yourself by boiling rawhide for a couple of hours, details on YouTube, or you can buy it online. Using it requires a small source of heat and a small pot. I happen to have an antique cast iron double boiler type glue pot. However people on YouTube seem to get along with small slowcookers or even an electric baby bottle warmer. If you don't live where pines are plentiful then hot hide glue is worth looking into.
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Knapperhead I also live in central TX. College Station to be exact. I would like to meet you some time. To answer your question you can use cedar( ash juniper) resin as a substitute. At least I have read that it will work.
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If you have pinyon pines nearby, that works better than tall pine sap. Juniper sap can be used. The secret to gathering that is find old, toppled dead ones and look under it. The sun will have cooked the sap right out of it and it will be in dried nuggets.