Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: steve b. on October 24, 2013, 10:16:02 pm
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I have this 42" x 2" flat VM stave that I want to do something with. It was 66" and I roughed the handle (1 3/8") before finding a problem in one outer limb. So I cut the stave down to this.
I will tiller for a bendy handle for sure and probably will sinew, heat treat, etc. But I'm debating between flipping the tips or gluing some tips on.
Do you think that I could cut a slit, perpendicular to the back/belly, into the tip ends, maybe two inches or so, and butt a hardwood tip (recurved) on the ends of the stave with a slice that slides into the slit and gets glued and pinned from the sides.....basically extending the length of the stave? ???
Would that kind of a connection be strong enough to bend the bow without pulling off the tip?
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Like this--side and top view
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well i have never seen tips done like that- you could try just to see, but i bet if that worked, we'd have seen it before.
42 is really short- how about a kids bow?
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see this thread for a 42 incher that pulls 50 at 26 by huisme:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,42995.0/topicseen.html
but in order to make it he had to make a deal that involved a fiddle made of gold. (80's reference)
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Recurved tips have been spliced in with a v splice for thousands of years. Why would you want to deviate from a proven method?
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see this thread for a 42 incher that pulls 50 at 26 by huisme:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,42995.0/topicseen.html
but in order to make it he had to make a deal that involved a fiddle made of gold. (80's reference)
I actually turned that deal down and sold my left kidney to a gypsy who cast a spell on the wood >:D
I think with a bendy handle, nice wide limbs, and decent wood like vine maple you can get a decent weight bow if you're really careful about tiller. Careful about letting people pull it though, little pieces of wood don't take well to being overdrawn ::)
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yea, aaron, it might end up as a kid's bow. I'm gonna give the tips a try though. Thanks all.
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Vine maple is good bow wood, but 42" doesn't leave you with many options; something with a really short draw.
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Trust me. Splice in the long levers. You can easily make that stave into a 62-65 incher.
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I disagree, this is a very feasable idea "if" they are glued and pinned. I would look for a very light wood for levers.....maybe spruce? The only issue I see with this idea is if you have enough wood through the thickness of the stave (back to belly) otherwise nothing ventured , nothing gained.....good luck. :)
VMB
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Thanks vmb, I'm gonna give it a try.
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You are almost certainly going to learn a harsh lesson in the effect of a cross pin in a wood joint that is undergoing a bending force.
Guys that put a dowel across a handle splice report a higher failure rather than a joint that is supported by glue alone for this very reason.
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You are almost certainly going to learn a harsh lesson in the effect of a cross pin in a wood joint that is undergoing a bending force.
Guys that put a dowel across a handle splice report a higher failure rather than a joint that is supported by glue alone for this very reason.
Well, if that's the case glasses, and a tiller tree will come in handy... :)
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Why risk it when a v- splice with a strong wrapping is practically fool proof?
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The fish tail splice on Inuit bows have copper rivets. Steve, go for it man! I would like to see how this turns out. How long are those levers gonna be?
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That drawing I posted is not to scale. The wooden tang of the lever that gets pinned will be much thicker in reality, and probably longer.
Not sure, Bryce, maybe 3". VMB got me to thinking about weight of the levers, which got me to thinking about how much I end up discussing the size of my bow tips because I apparently make them "so much bigger than they need to be and therefore my arrow is slowed down".
If I remember correctly, Tim Baker said that for every extra 60 grns. of tip weight, on the average size and weight bow, arrow speed is reduced about 1 fps.
So I compared some woods today, 60 grns worth, to see how much actual wood that amounts to. Here is oceanspray, hazelnut, fir, oak, two exotics and some antler and that whole stack of stir sticks. This is how much EXTRA wood you would have to add to tips to reduce arrow speed 1fps.
But also it gives me an idea of how much heavier 4" levers would be if made from exotics vs., say, hazelnut. I cut some VM after this pic and it was nearly identical to the hazelnut.
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Try Cascara, pin cherry might be another choice, remember these (as I am sure you know) would have to be non-bending levers....I like the Cascara idea!
VMB
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Cascara is nice and light.
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I would go with a v-splice, like PatM suggested. Sitka spruce would be another option for your levers....strongest wood per weight by most measures.
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Oh great, now you chime in, after I cut the grooves today! :o
Actually I don't know how the V splice works. I'm going with hazelnut for the levers. 3" x 1/4" grooves, another 3" levers, 2" high recurves.
Live and learn I guess....... :-[
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Steve, you dont neeed us telling you what to do...you know how to make a bow. :D
I am looking forward to seeing how this turns out.