Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Josh B on October 20, 2013, 01:44:17 pm

Title: DISASTER!
Post by: Josh B on October 20, 2013, 01:44:17 pm
After having such a good weekend last week, I guess there had to be a reckoning. :(  I have been building up a pretty sizable burn pile this year and my oldest daughter thought it would be a waste to burn it with out a weinie and marshmallow roast.  So I agreed to let her have a few of her friends over to do just that.  Of course, anytime a half dozen teenage girls gather, at least that many teenage boys have a way of magically appearing.  As it was only supposed to be a bunch of girls, I was only keeping an eye on them.  BIG MISTAKE !!!  By the time that I realized the boys had shown up, they had already thrown a large portion of my Osage stash on the fire! >:(  here is what's left of over forty Osage staves and a dozen walnut quarters.  I'm just sick.  My daughter told them to leave it alone, they ignored her.  When she came in to tell me, they piled more on the fire before I could get out there.  I'm just sickened by such wanton destruction.  It'll take the winter to replace em, but until it seasons, I've got very little to work with.  I've got ERC and whitewoods,  but some of that Osage was decades old.  I'm glad that i sent the best piece of the island Osage out to a buddy, because its all gone.  Those boys are gonna be in for a surprise when their parents get a bill for the damage.  Josh
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: osage outlaw on October 20, 2013, 01:46:36 pm
Just one question.   Are these boys over 18?   >:(
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: bow101 on October 20, 2013, 02:11:59 pm
Whoa.......  vile destruction of ones passion......... :o
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: YosemiteBen on October 20, 2013, 02:25:10 pm
Goes to show why corporal punishment needs to be used! I got whooped plenty of times and I am not a junkie, gang member, disrespectful, pants hanging, knuckle dragging, non contributing whachamacallit! Those boys need a week of hard work on top of the bill you send their folks! Plus a good AW! >:(  I am sorry for your Loss.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: coaster500 on October 20, 2013, 03:02:05 pm
Wow what a total lack of respect........  I feel for you Doc. I hope you get some reimbursement for the lost goods and I truly hope these kids get punished and are held responsible for this. If they aren't who know what their next crime will be.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Pat B on October 20, 2013, 03:06:09 pm
Sorry to hear about this Josh. Hopefully you can get some satisfaction.
 If you need bow wood, just ask!!!  ;)
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: bubby on October 20, 2013, 03:22:04 pm
Goes to show why corporal punishment needs to be used! I got whooped plenty of times and I am not a junkie, gang member, disrespectful, pants hanging, knuckle dragging, non contributing whachamacallit! Those boys need a week of hard work on top of the bill you send their folks! Plus a good AW! >:(  I am sorry for your Loss.


your not any of those ben but you are a musician >:D
that sucks Josh, hell it breaks MY heart and it wasn't my stash, bub
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: IdahoMatt on October 20, 2013, 03:47:11 pm
Josh, I'm so sorry to hear that.  Makes me sick, the lack of respect.  I don't have much, no Osage but but some other stuff.  If you want or need some I would send you some. 

Matt
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: bowtarist on October 20, 2013, 03:51:01 pm
OUCH MAN!! Boy that's a drag. Try to be a nice guy and all your bow wood gets burnt. Sheesh, fellin for ya Buddy. dp
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Olanigw (Pekane) on October 20, 2013, 03:51:24 pm
My heart breaks.
Your self control is far greater than mine.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: blackhawk on October 20, 2013, 03:52:49 pm
THAT SUCKS!!!!!  >:(  :-\  :'(    Next time your out my way lemme know and I'll hook ya up free of charge. Or lemme know if ya need some seasoned stuff n I'll bring em down to the classic or next time I see ya....arghhhhh  >:(
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: wildman on October 20, 2013, 04:04:41 pm
Be handy to have that many teenage boys cut down,carryout split store,and seal your replacment staves. All done without the aid of powertools or atvs of course,and no reason to waste gloves on hellians. >:D
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: sleek on October 20, 2013, 04:23:41 pm
Man, I would work those brats till they had blisters on their fingers. I would make them replace my osage stash twice over. I would also make them split and quarter them.  Still thats no replacing the 20+ year old staves. But its a start. All by hand too, with an ax, sledge, and wedges. And tell the parents they will be sued for the cost of materials if their children dont cooperate. And of course, I wouldnt ever let them date my daughter either.

I wish I had more staves, I would be happy to give them to you, but I am almost out.

Edit: Now that I think about it, doesnt the Bible say something about replacing items 7 fold? If your not a religious man, now would be a great time to start...
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: JW_Halverson on October 20, 2013, 05:11:53 pm
As someone that has had to pay retail prices for nearly every bit of osage I've laid hands on, I can say that those staves were fair market value of $75 each, another $15 premium for anything with decent character, and Lord knows what you would ask for something with a decade or more of seasoning.

That's an easy $3k without even the premium value added.  Even if they cut, haul, split, debark, and chase a ring on replacement staves, that does not cover the seasoning of wood.  I can send you a small pair of rusty and dull pruning shears if you need to go Biblical on 'em.  Eye for an eye and wood for wood.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: mullet on October 20, 2013, 05:12:51 pm
 I'd talk to their parents and whichever kid didn't show up to cut, split and chase sap wood on every stave I told them to do, I'd send them a bill for sure. You are a better man then me. I'd be whooping their butts up and down the road with whatever switch I could find.

 I really feel for you Josh, I know how hard you worked for those Island staves.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Josh B on October 20, 2013, 05:26:56 pm
Thanks for the sentiment fellas.  I've been to town and talking with some parents.  It would appear that I'm going to have some help this winter cutting hedge.  The guilty parties' dads are gonna be coming along to make sure their sons replace every stave with three.  It doesn't quite make up for the old super seasoned stuff, but its more than I figured on.  You can bet that some of the replacement Osage will be off the island to.  There is some fine hedge on that island!  Thanks for all the kind offers fellas.  I still have a couple dozen staves of questionable quality and all the pending Osage bows that were ordered have already been roughed in and were in the shop.  So I'm not totally wiped out.  But what a staggering blow nonetheless!  Thanks again fellas.  Josh
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Joec123able on October 20, 2013, 06:01:05 pm
WOW sorry to hear that Don't know what I'd do in that situation maybe grab a burning Osage stave and knock there heads in with it
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: mullet on October 20, 2013, 06:03:09 pm
Josh;
I'm glad to hear there are still some parents that care how their kids act. You'll probably end up with one or two apprentences before this is all over.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Poggins on October 20, 2013, 07:33:06 pm
Sounds like some boys are going to learn to respect other's property , by the time they get through their first weekend of handling osage they will know how much those staves ment to you , a lot of hard work goes in to what we do .
Glad to hear you still had some wood to work with , I ran out of seasoned wood and building my stash back up , never again , I'll cut some every year now .
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Trapper Rob on October 20, 2013, 07:59:47 pm
I'm with Eddie on that one I'd be doing some whipping then we'd go cut some wood.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Badly Bent on October 20, 2013, 08:04:51 pm
Man Josh that pic and story is depressing, feel bad for ya brother. Like how your dealing with it, some valuable lessons are gonna be learned by those boys. Don't treat em' to nice either cause one day one of em' might wanna date your daughter and he'll know better than to be disrespectful to her out of fear of you.
 Work them hard like a warden Doc.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: sleek on October 20, 2013, 08:47:27 pm
Hopefully they will turn out good hard workers. With a little luck this will work out better than you had hoped and one or two will take a liking to this and want to learn more. The others will hopefully be worked so hard and hate you and never show up again. If you get 3 staves for every one burnt that's 120 osage staves. You won't be to bad off...
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: KrisDelger on October 20, 2013, 08:59:56 pm
Just make sure you blindfold them before taking them to your harvesting grounds! otherwise they'll know where your standing stash is! Also ya never know a few of them might catch the bug and you'll end up with a legion of kids wanting to learn the craft. Good luck to you, and many condolences for your stash it's a real shame to lose that precious of material.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Cameroo on October 20, 2013, 09:02:16 pm
Pretty sure I would have gone full-on red zone if I was in your shoes.  Probably would have blacked out and woke up in jail.

How tragic...  :(
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Fred Arnold on October 20, 2013, 09:12:47 pm
I can't (can) imagine the feelings that were going through your head when you discovered what happened. What a sickening feeling that must have been (is). I experienced a similar but not quite as devastating occurrence last month when a grown up visiting the house took one of my osage longbows, the first successful one I ever built, off the wall and tried to string it up backwards. Snapped the top limb right in half. No offer or agreement on compensation on his part.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Weylin on October 20, 2013, 09:21:08 pm
There are no words...  >:(
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: steve b. on October 20, 2013, 09:24:54 pm
Wow.  This one really got me going.  I just read the story to my family.  Ummm--I think I'd require some of the firebugs to be MMA sparing partners.  Sorry.  Let me know if you want any PNW staves, free of charge.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: criveraville on October 21, 2013, 02:33:00 am
What Cam said!! Or as George likes to say, "that's just Ducky!!!"

Josh, that's just well speechless I would say. Not much you can say.. You need to go and reprimand their kindergarten teachers. Every last one. I bet they messed up!!

Cipriano
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: BowEd on October 21, 2013, 07:17:38 am
That really sucks Josh.Your daugther told em too yet.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Pappy on October 21, 2013, 08:15:59 am
That stinks,glad I had a son,I don't think I could stand all them Young guys hanging around,I had a lot of them hanging out with Beau  at the Cabin when he was a teenanger but they all knew the rules and for some reason seemed to be scared of me and what I would do if the messed up. :o ??? ;) :) Must have been something I said. ??? :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Gsulfridge on October 21, 2013, 08:18:52 am
Man, oh man!  An osage shoot would make a good "rod of correction" I bet.  Sorry for your lost stash!
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: paulsemp on October 21, 2013, 08:22:36 am
That sucks! If you need any seasoned wood please let me know and I will send one on me.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: lesken2011 on October 21, 2013, 09:27:06 am
Sorry to hear about this, Josh! I am speechless!! ???
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 21, 2013, 09:49:04 am
Id beat them turds from Kansas to California and back again. We had our fun as boys, but destroying property was never a thought, we just destroyed ourselves and our trucks. Ill send you a few Joshy boy.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: turtle on October 21, 2013, 10:03:16 am
Im surprised i didnt hear your yelling from Ohio. Let me know if ya need any wood.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Marks on October 21, 2013, 11:41:27 am
I understand boys make mistakes when trying to impress ladies but how do you mistake a pile of long staves for firewood especially after your daughter warned them. Not the kind of boys you want hanging around. Common sense is becoming a rare quality. If it wasn't so valuable I'd love to make em replace every stave using hand tools only and when they get done pile it all up and burn it to let em see how it feels. Then make em do it again to replace your stash.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: skarhand on October 21, 2013, 12:20:14 pm
Man, I can't imagine how infuriating that must have been. Hopefully you get some nice new staves and maybe the boys will learn something from it. Is surly stinks that at came at your expense, but if even only one or two learn a life lesson and straighten their lives up some, it won't be a total loss.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: BOWMAN53 on October 21, 2013, 12:26:42 pm
wow, thats horrible man. i got a knot in my stomache just reading that. your a  better man than me, i wouldve thrown them into the pit for sure. if i had wood to give you, id send it in a heart beat.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Josh B on October 21, 2013, 01:31:52 pm
Thank you all very much for the condolences and offers of wood.  This community...no make that family really is unparalleled by any group anywhere.  I'm overwhelmed by the generous offers.  Not surprised mind you, but overwhelmed nonetheless.  I'm not completely wiped out by any means.  I have enough white woods to last me a lifetime and the Osage bows that are roughed out will take a couple years to finish.  By that time, the replacement Osage should be ready to work.  Plus I have a nice little yew stash that will be ready next year.  I plan on teaching these boys a hard lesson on old school hand craftsmanship so that they will have a considerable appreciation for what kinda work it takes to put up those staves they burn up like it was nothing.  Once again, thank you very much!  Its good to know that ya'll have my back if I really got in a pinch.  Of course, I feel the same way.  Thanks,  Josh
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: BOWMAN53 on October 21, 2013, 01:39:22 pm
thats a great idea, get those boys and make then cut, split and seal a butt load of wood.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Parnell on October 21, 2013, 01:53:16 pm
Ugh!  I would have been furious, but imagine I'd go about it same as you.  I'll bet some good will come out of it in the long haul, though.  Teach 'em good, and some way it'll be made right. 

What a story, though!  I've got a couple pieces of Seagrape about dry.  Be happy to help you out.  Hope it all works out.  DANG!!!
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: stickbender on October 21, 2013, 01:57:23 pm
That stinks,glad I had a son,I don't think I could stand all them Young guys hanging around,I had a lot of them hanging out with Beau  at the Cabin when he was a teenanger but they all knew the rules and for some reason seemed to be scared of me and what I would do if the messed up. :o ??? ;) :) Must have been something I said. ??? :)
   Pappy
     Probably, the human skull you had nailed to the tree out front  ::) ;D.........or the hand with the high school class ring on it, and thigh bones in the big pot....... :P ;D ;D
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: osage outlaw on October 21, 2013, 02:03:16 pm
While you have those boys working on replacing your osage stash I think you should find a nice big elm log and have them split that into staves   >:D

If you need some seasoned stuff let me know and I'll bring you some to the Classic.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: JacksonCash on October 21, 2013, 05:45:13 pm
While you have those boys working on replacing your osage stash I think you should find a nice big elm log and have them split that into staves   >:D

If you need some seasoned stuff let me know and I'll bring you some to the Classic.

I could do with some elm staves if you don't want em!

Also, props to your daughter for coming to get you, but too bad it was needed. I'd send some your way if I had any, but that stuff doesn't grow up here.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Poggins on October 21, 2013, 06:39:56 pm
When they split a tree that is questionable tell them it's not good enough and have them split another , they will learn what kind of mistake they made ( tell them all the staves they burned were primo staves , the best you can find and you want that kind of wood back in your stock ).
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on October 21, 2013, 08:16:25 pm
Man, that sucks. I have had wood destroyed through other things(mostly insects...)
And Osage too! All the worse.... I would have them serve as running targets so I could get some dynamic practice in with some blunts.... but I think that might be illegal.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: DGF on October 21, 2013, 08:39:03 pm
As bad as it is some good may come of it. Who knows, one of the hulligans may show an interest in bow building.

-Dan
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: warpath on October 21, 2013, 09:46:22 pm
The Mrs. and I read this and it made us both sick!!!! I think that they should pay the cost of a finished bow that each of those staves would've made AND cut more staves with their own hands using only axes. wedges, and hammers without the benefit of gloves. The money should come from their pockets and not their parents!!! If that means they need to get a job, then that's what they have to do!! Give them a timeframe as to when the money needs to be paid as well. Then they'll learn what it's like to have all their hard-earned money taken away in a flash.
  You definitely handled this way better than I would have. If it were me, heads would roll!!!!!

  G
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: JW_Halverson on October 21, 2013, 10:06:33 pm
Josh, this situation is also showing the quality of person that you are.  Lots of us would have flipped out and behaved poorly.  You, instead, went and talked with the kids' parents and made your case.  You turned this into a teachable moment where these boys can make right what wrong they did to you. 

Leave it to Gun Doc to tiller out a couple of knotty kids. 
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: JacksonCash on October 21, 2013, 11:22:26 pm
Josh, this situation is also showing the quality of person that you are.  Lots of us would have flipped out and behaved poorly.  You, instead, went and talked with the kids' parents and made your case.  You turned this into a teachable moment where these boys can make right what wrong they did to you. 

Leave it to Gun Doc to tiller out a couple of knotty kids.

Very well said.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Josh B on October 21, 2013, 11:50:06 pm
Man, that sucks. I have had wood destroyed through other things(mostly insects...)
And Osage too! All the worse.... I would have them serve as running targets so I could get some dynamic practice in with some blunts.... but I think that might be illegal.
When this happened, I considered many dark means of retribution.  Thankfully, the boys chose self preservation over valor when I charged out of the house in my skivies and moccasins and they  ran into the cornfield like their butts were on fire.  This gave me time to clear my thoughts and approach this without  medieval intent.  Four of the six seem to be good kids that just used poor judgement.  The other two (the reported ring leaders)  were shall we say less than contrite.  I'm gonna try to be  pretty fair with the four and try to see if I can spark some interest in them.  The other two are probably gonna find themselves piling brush if there attitude doesn't improve drastically.  Anyone see a flaw in that approach?  Josh
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Poggins on October 22, 2013, 12:12:03 am
Nope.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: turtle on October 22, 2013, 08:31:22 am
 I charged out of the house in my skivies and moccasins and they  ran into the cornfield like their butts were on fire. 



A sight like that would give me nightmares. :o :o :o
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Josh B on October 22, 2013, 10:47:43 am
Yeah...I apologize for that mental image folks.   I only mentioned that particular detail because folks seem to have gotten the impression that I was calm, cool and collected throughout this ordeal. Clearly, I was not!  My initial reaction was far from calm, cool and collected.  Josh
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Marks on October 22, 2013, 10:54:03 am
For your 2 less than contrites you should count up and give a fair market monetary estimate of the damages and let them chose to replace them or pay for them. I bet their eyes will bug out when they see how expensive flirting with girls can be.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 22, 2013, 11:46:47 am

 All the worse.... I would have them serve as running targets so I could get some dynamic practice in with some blunts.... but I think that might be illegal.


Oddly enough? That's what we do to scammers that don't hold up their end of swaps and trades in this wonderful community we call PA.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: IdahoMatt on October 22, 2013, 12:11:47 pm
That's funny.  I'll be sure to ship on time ;D
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 22, 2013, 12:15:42 pm
The facilitators of the given swap will greatly appreciate that Matt!
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Fred Arnold on October 22, 2013, 01:22:41 pm

 All the worse.... I would have them serve as running targets so I could get some dynamic practice in with some blunts.... but I think that might be illegal.


Oddly enough? That's what we do to scammers that don't hold up their end of swaps and trades in this wonderful community we call PA.

PD, I can attest to you that that is not true in all cases. I won't post the persons identity openly in this forum but there are definitely exceptions to that rule.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: stickbender on October 22, 2013, 03:02:36 pm

     Oh yeah, by all means work them!  You might even throw in a cotton wood tree, and then after they finally get it split into staves, say, " what the heck?  That isn't Osage, that's cotton wood, oh, never mind, toss it in the burn pit.  But definitely make them work, but I would feed them lunch, and water, then back to the chopping and splitting.  Those that don't leave after the first day or two, would get an offer to learn to make a good bow. And a little knowledge of their ancestors, and how they lived with what nature offered them, and the hard life they led. All things happen for a reason.  Sit down with all of them first, and explain the reason you are so upset, and the irreplaceable value of the older aged pieces, and the rarity of finding good primo osage.  Explain the hard work ahead of them, and what it takes to get those staves.  Maybe it will set a sense of the waste they caused even when your daughter told them not to.  Then put their butts to work!  After they have replaced all the staves, I would have a cook out, but no Osage fuel!  That way at least, they get the sense of what they, did, the sense of having replaced the wood, and the sense that you aren't just an old @#!$%$#@!  But I would make the offer to teach them the skills to make a good bow and arrow set.  But I would keep your daughter out of the shop while you are teaching.  No distractions, no accidents, or missing fingers. ;)  Just a man cave gathering. ;D   Oh yeah, while you are talking to them, have the song "Wolverton Mountain" playing........ Then casually mention, that your are also mighty good with a gun and a knife.... ::) :P
                                                             Wayne
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: JW_Halverson on October 22, 2013, 03:09:38 pm

 All the worse.... I would have them serve as running targets so I could get some dynamic practice in with some blunts.... but I think that might be illegal.


Oddly enough? That's what we do to scammers that don't hold up their end of swaps and trades in this wonderful community we call PA.

That or have Gun Doc jump outa the bushes at night wearing nothing but skivvies and moccasins!
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 22, 2013, 03:14:42 pm
Don't forget about a smoke hanging out his mouf J-dub!

Its good to have an OTR buddy, they can take care of long distance stiff arming when the need arises.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Onebowonder on October 22, 2013, 07:42:07 pm
This type of foolishness can well and truly be driven from a young man's mind and heart, ...but it is ONLY ever accomplished thru an amalgam of blood, sweat, and tears.  Good on you for taking the interest in the sons of your community to make them better men one day.  A lesser sort of man might have just filed suit or fired off some birdshot, neither of which would likely ever bring these young men around to harnessing their potential to the work and responsibility that is so needed in our society.  As I say, ...Good on you GunDoc!


OneBow
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: stickbender on October 22, 2013, 08:26:49 pm


That or have Gun Doc jump outa the bushes at night wearing nothing but skivvies and moccasins!
[/quote] and drool coming down the corners of his mouth, and look at the kids, and leer, and say " who wants some sugar? " :P >:D
 I will bet that the girls that were there are probably thinking, well that pretty much takes care any thoughts of marriage in the future!  Now to have my eyes checked.

                                                        Wayne
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: JW_Halverson on October 22, 2013, 10:20:33 pm


That or have Gun Doc jump outa the bushes at night wearing nothing but skivvies and moccasins!
and drool coming down the corners of his mouth, and look at the kids, and leer, and say " who wants some sugar? " :P >:D
 I will bet that the girls that were there are probably thinking, well that pretty much takes care any thoughts of marriage in the future!  Now to have my eyes checked.

                                                        Wayne
[/quote]

The thought of him in skivvies and mocs leaves me with an urge to stuff the corner of a wet towel deep into my left ear and pull it out thru my right ear.
Title: Re: DISASTER!
Post by: Poggins on October 22, 2013, 11:14:11 pm
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!  ;D ;D :o