Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: BowSlayer on September 12, 2013, 11:07:10 am
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i know i already posted a bow today but i also finnished tillering this one today. it's made from maple, and has tons of knots and wavy grain. it was very difficult to tiller. ill keep it short and post more pics once i have the sanding and finnishing touches done. one limb was deflexed and the other straight with a hint of reflex. the bow is 63" long i tried stem bending 8 times but nothing. so i just wen't for it. the tiller looks of but it hits hard a quick measure showed 55#@28" which suppised me.
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_140316_zpse00f39f2.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_140316_zpse00f39f2.jpg.html)
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_140313_zps38b8e0d3.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_140313_zps38b8e0d3.jpg.html)
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_140305_zpsb12e5b83.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_140305_zpsb12e5b83.jpg.html)
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_140256_zps42c200bd.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_140256_zps42c200bd.jpg.html)
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_140254_zpsbf758c67.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_140254_zpsbf758c67.jpg.html)
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_140250_zps7a33a586.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_140250_zps7a33a586.jpg.html)
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_140243_zps9db5ced6.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_140243_zps9db5ced6.jpg.html)
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_140128_zps4793eb0c.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_140128_zps4793eb0c.jpg.html)
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_135521_zpsec127f0a.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_135521_zpsec127f0a.jpg.html)
brace picture
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_135416_zpse744e584.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_135416_zpse744e584.jpg.html)
F/D picture
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_135434_zps03d2387b.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_135434_zps03d2387b.jpg.html)
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_135944_zps8dc91ee1.jpg) (http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/bowslayerjez/media/20130912_135944_zps8dc91ee1.jpg.html)
thanks, for looking
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Wow. Another interesting display. I don't buy 55#. I don't think that bow would hold up at 55#, with the severely uneven tiller and violated knots on the back. Can you not see how uneven your tiller is at brace? I'm actually very surprised it even survived being pulled to full draw once.
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That looks like it was a challenge!
Have you got a pic of the stave before any tillering? You've got two massive hinges on the right limb, which don't look like they came from normal deflex, and the unbraced pic shows lots of set in those two places. That might have been the natural deflex but normally a piece of wood won't have such focused deflex like that. Looks exactly like string follow caused by hinges created during tillering.
The left limb needs to be doing a whole lot more work from midlimb out as well. You're getting there, just make sure you don't rush. If a stave has deflex or reflex or a mix of both, the tillering should reflect that, but the limbs still need to work properly to spread the forces evenly. With those hinges all the stress is focused in one area.
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Nice layout around all of your knots and wiggles.Looking forward to the final look of it after some tiller adustment there.You'll be lucky to get a 45# bow,but with lots of nice character.Pretty good for your length though.Nice bow.
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That's one "squirrelly" piece of wood....that fits you well >:D :laugh: ;D n i dont need to add what's been said of the tiller ::)
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yess i do agree with whats been said. but i feel if i touch the left limb it will cause a terrible hinge. so i may change it later if it surrvives. im taking it down the range tonight and if it surrvives ill add some clear varnish, add some type of handle wrap and maybe even add a flopy rest if i can find some leather. but lets see if it survives.
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Why the heck don't you smooth all those tool and pencil marks out that's like the best part besides shooting
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Why the heck don't you smooth all those tool and pencil marks out that's like the best part besides shooting
don't worry im doing that. i just wanted to show everyone how the build was going and to get some advice and second opinions on the tiller.
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Shouldn't we try to be a bit more encouraging to the young man here...? Yes there's plenty of mistakes but he's making bows... I remember, a decade and a half ago, cutting through bumps on the back of a bow, cause I though a smooth back was somehow important. You gotta learn somehow.
Gabe
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This young man is getting oodles of help on this site. What he chooses to do with the information is up to him.
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There aren't any violations on the back. But there were two large knots on the handle section and I smoothed them off as there in a static portion of the handle.
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See those circular rings around the knots? Those are violations.
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Its far more important to have a bow that might be underweight but well tillered, than poorly tillered at any weight, and just because a handle may be non-bending, doesn't mean there is no stress there, especially on the back of the handle.
Good job on getting your hands dirty though, my first bows were no different.
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You don't want top cut through knots on the back of the bow. It necessarily creates violations (as ADB pointed out).
Gabe
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the first two pics are the belly, but there are no violations on the back of the limbs. im going to tiller it a tad more and do some test shooting.
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This is what they are talking about. You cut through the ring on the knot when you smoothed it out causing a violation.
(http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t614/bowslayerjez/20130912_140256_zps42c200bd.jpg)
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the first two pics are the belly, but there are no violations on the back of the limbs. im going to tiller it a tad more and do some test shooting.
dude, take the advice and say nothing but "thank you ill get that fixed". you dont take your car to the mechanics and tell them theyre wrong when they tell you whats broken.
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Yeah, this bow is bending far too much out of the fades. I should know, it's my most common mistake ::)
At this point I think you'd be better off going for a well tillered light bow than a heavier broken bow. Those violations around knots are dangerous, and I'd almost suggest going down one ring if fixing the tiller didn't make the bow light enough to where I'd personally be comfortable with them.
Your choice obviously. People far more experienced than you and I combined have given you advice, but you can ignore it if you so wish.
My money is on them, though >:D
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You be careful pulling that bow back. Very uneven tiller. You tied into quite the stave there. Keep making bows. Dean
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You need to find your self a straight "ish" bit of wood! If you were further up North where the real men are ;) I would find you a stave.
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haha. im going to fix the tiller. i have some straight billits that i might splice together.
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That looks like a knot where the grain flows right up the limb instead of parting and flowing around it. That usually happens when a branch starts growing out of the trunk after the tree has been growing for awhile and is exposed to sunlight that it wasn't exposed to earlier on in its life. If that be the case, the only way to avoid violation would be to shift the layout of the bow to completely eliminate the knot. Of course that is not an option very often. For future reference BS, if you peel the bark and see a knot like this, try to avoid it if you can. It is a violation of the back and a threat to the bow. Considering what your working with for a stave, I'd say your doing a pretty fair job. I'd say fix the tiller up a bit and keep an eye on that knot. It may or may not hold. Time will tell. Josh
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That looks like a knot where the grain flows right up the limb instead of parting and flowing around it. That usually happens when a branch starts growing out of the trunk after the tree has been growing for awhile and is exposed to sunlight that it wasn't exposed to earlier on in its life. If that be the case, the only way to avoid violation would be to shift the layout of the bow to completely eliminate the knot. Of course that is not an option very often. For future reference BS, if you peel the bark and see a knot like this, try to avoid it if you can. It is a violation of the back and a threat to the bow. Considering what your working with for a stave, I'd say your doing a pretty fair job. I'd say fix the tiller up a bit and keep an eye on that knot. It may or may not hold. Time will tell. Josh
Thanks for the input Josh. I removed the bark after i split it. And after it seasoned so it was hard to tell what was underneath.
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There is a slight hinge a couple inches from the fade on the left and a decent hinge near the fade on right and a huge hinge on the outer 1/3 of the left limb. Now pics don't show the whole story but I know for a fact that second and last one I said are there for sure.
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My two cents? Not sure how many pounds that converts to? Anyway. Youve heard it all for the most part. Your work is very, very rough. By work I mean your tool marks and such. I realize you intend on sanding, sandpaper wont take that out. SLOW down, use the proper tool at the proper time and clean up behind yourself. By that I mean follow heavy rasp work with a lighter rasp and a quick scrape. That way when your bow is done you wont lose 10-15# trying to smooth it off. Also, look at your edges. They are rough as cob, thats how splinters are born. Right tools right time and SLOW down.
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Don't need to say anything else, but why not heat treat the area's that are hinges? That way you won't lose a ton of weight trying to get that tiller correct.
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Don't need to say anything else, but why not heat treat the area's that are hinges? That way you won't lose a ton of weight trying to get that tiller correct.
I can't agree that's the best way to correct a hinge. I think that's not the best application for heat treatment.
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Agreed. I think if he tried to correct it conventionally tho, he would come in way underweight?
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Agreed. I think if he tried to correct it conventionally tho, he would come in way underweight?
Probably. But, as mentioned, better a lighter weight well tillered bow than a poorly tillered heavier bow.
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Good work! That bows got alot of character ;D
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Good grief. ::)
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Agreed. I think if he tried to correct it conventionally tho, he would come in way underweight?
Probably. But, as mentioned, better a lighter weight well tillered bow than a poorly tillered heavier bow.
yeah you're right, probably better to start a new one by now lol. :o
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You need to heat it up bend it straight, varnish it and make a nice walking stick for your grandpa pr something?
:o
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You need to find your self a straight "ish" bit of wood! If you were further up North where the real men are ;) I would find you a stave.
Me too!
Seriously though find a tree that looks like a telegraph pole!
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Geez....You sure know how to kick up the Mud around here...lol :laugh: does that happen to you in real life all the time too ??? ::)
I know it ain't perfect,but I'm just happy to see the kid actually trying here...and that's good enough for me ... ;) keep on keeping on squirrelly..and go make another one..and keep soaking up these guys advice and constructive criticism
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Honestly, the way some folks take into this kid like a double bastard rasp I'm surprised he is still here. And glad of it, kids got grit what can I say? Now no body of course means harm but the wear their sandpaper on their sleeve thats for sure. I am impressed you got that stick shooting. I think any experienced bowyer would have done it also but it would take an experienced one to get it done well. Be proud its shooting. Also be sure now to do your best to fix your mistakes. All of which have been pointed out. I think you should work on one problem at a time though, seems like with all the direction you are being pointed in, your running in circles.
The knot with the violation, I have done worse and I doubt the bow will break there, even with perfect tiller. I would first learn to get my edges smooth as bad edges ( tool marks ) break bows faster than bad tiller. Then get your tiller to come around better. Also, heat treating hinges. I do it all the time ( not hinges as I dont get those anymore, but weaker spots I hit with a heat gun ) and use a heat gun. It works, but it isnt a solution to hinges. It is a bandaid, learn to recognize them before they happen is the best way to fix them. But you have to make a few to learn about them. Based on what I see here, your doing a good job learning.
Kid, your doing well. I wish you lived by me, I would invite you to my garage to make some wood shavings. Keep at it. In a few more bows I bet you will be getting good jobs all around. Id put money on it.
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Thanks for the kind words. Im going to start another bow this week, nothing special but im going to attempt a takedown. Its going to hopefully be a simple design. If you want ill post it when im done
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Thanks for the kind words. Im going to start another bow this week, nothing special but im going to attempt a takedown. Its going to hopefully be a simple design. If you want ill post it when im done
Why don't you find some easy to work wood and make yourself a good basic pyramid flatbow? Tiller it well, finish it nice, and that'll get you a lot further down this road than trying to make a takedown. Baby steps kid... walk before yah run!
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Geez....You sure know how to kick up the Mud around here...lol :laugh: does that happen to you in real life all the time too ??? ::)
I know it ain't perfect,but I'm just happy to see the kid actually trying here...and that's good enough for me ... ;) keep on keeping on squirrelly..and go make another one..and keep soaking up these guys advice and constructive criticism
agreed, im happy to see a bow that HE made from the beginning. we all get hinges from time to time, its how you deal with it that makes you a good bowyer.
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I think the main thing you need to learn is patience!
It's not easy at your age...it took me about 59 years to learn patience, and I still haven't quite got the hang of it :laugh:.
The real thing is to be very self critical.
Sure your first bow that shoots is great, but a couple of weeks later you need to really study it hard and pick out the faults.
Either re-work the bow or make sure you get it better on the next one. Work hard at 'getting your eye in' so you see the tillering errors early, 'cos that's the only way you can catch them in time.
Think about the finish and fit of every single thing you do. Does the grip really feel comfortable in your hand? If you can actually feel it at all it's not right!
I think we are all trying to help, we can see you making the same mistakes we made as youngsters, but we also see you aren't just giving up like a lot of people would.
So keep at it, try to educate your eye and master those hand tools. The skill and patience you learn now will help you right through your life.
Often when doing jobs the preparation is the key. We see pictures on here asking for tiller criticism with the bow on a wonky tiller with the picture taken at an angle. Get the basics right and the rest becomes less difficult, don't worry that you may only have hand tools, just about everything can be made by hand. I recently cut a 32 tooth gear for a lathe all by hand... I could have bought one... but where's the fun in that?
Del
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How long did that gear take you man. I love anything hand made. Something has gone amiss with people throwing everything away and buying something new rather than fixing, or getting something that lasts more than a boat ride across the pond. Bit of a run on sorry. Would love to see that gear though. Kid I'm stoked that you are sticking with it. I would recommend a simple one piece design as mentioned earlier. You will be happier with the end result. Post your progress with questions, and you will get answers. It is what you do with those answers that will make you a better bowyer, or not ;D
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Ahhh yes PATIENCE. Best advice yet. Keep at it.
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Del, that is as good of advice as can be had. Very well put Sir! Josh
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One main thing a lot of young people & older too have trouble with is finishing what you start.Although there can be exceptions especially with bows that a later talent level & time can be finished up.Taking pride in a job well done.I don't care if it's sweeping the floor.Do a good job.It's called attitude to the job at hand.Slowing down if need be.This bow making is'nt like getting a book report in on time type of thing.
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I'm far more impressed by character in a bowyer than in the bow....
True of most things in life.
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Yes. We were all trying to help u. My first bow as a character bow and it came out 20 lbs too light. It had really bad tiller. My second one had better tiller but I left knots really thick. The third was good. The knots add wood around it and raise themselves so the weak area isn't bending but the extra wood around it bends because it equals the wood it would have without the knot. Took me two times to learn that and I read and watched EVERYTHING for a year before making my first one. Everything after my third has been small changes for less string follow, faster bow, better handles, etc. I have a few bowyer friends that are way more experienced than me that I occasionally ask questions if I have never ran into that problem. It's more experience and slight tricks that make u a good bowyer. Along with that comes adaptability. Set a goal to make every bow better than the last and pick out every flaw that you could change. Have fun :) :) :) :)
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Build ya another one...wish i started building bows while i still had zits..might actually be good at it...lol... smooth it up..shoot it till it shatters.
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Build ya another one...wish i started building bows while i still had zits..might actually be good at it...lol... smooth it up..shoot it till it shatters.
:laugh: