Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: wood_bandit99 on September 10, 2013, 08:25:14 pm
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Hey guys, I have a special bow for Eric bess that he ordered. This bow's character is all natural and was fun to make to say the least. The tiller looks all jacked but I assure u it is tillered good :) no handshock at all. It is amazingly quiet and fast. I wanted it to come out at 50# @ 30" an it came out at 49# @ 30" :( close enough I guess :) it is 64" long with a set of grooves for stringing. And it will have a deer fur rest and some stuff written on it. It shoots almost all arrows like darts and is very fun to shoot. It has about a 1/4" stringfollow. So enough talking.....LETS BRING OUT THE BOW!!!!!!
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More
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Money shot
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I will get some bigger pics when I get home on the computer
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Looks great I like the handle section.
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That's a tough stave to tiller with the uneven limb profile. You're right that you don't shy away from bumps and bends.
The upper limb looks pretty good, however, the lower limb is bending a whole lot right out of the fade, and not bending very much in the outer 2/3 of the limb.
IMO there are two ways to deal with staves like this... one is to use heat to create a more even limb profile before you start tillering. The other is to tiller with the limb profile that the stave gives you. Option two is more difficult because the proper tiller will not necessarily be visually evident, but rather is a function of achieving an even strain throughout limbs that start out uneven Seems like you've chosen option two, and while I think you made a good effort at it, the lower limb is dangeriously close to a hinge right out of the fade. Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable selling this bow to someone else.
Thanks for posting it though, I'm glad you're making bows. How does it shoot?
Gabe
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I don't think its very far off at all. That is a tricky one. That lower limb is deflexed out of the fade at unbrace which makes it look like a hinge and then reflexed midlimb making it appear flat. I'm actually quite impressed, all things considered. Josh
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Be careful filing the string grooves across the back of the bow like that. It could create a place for a splinter to lift. If you use some overlays like horn, wood, or antler you can make the grooves like that with no worries of a splinter.
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+1 to what both Josh and Clint said. I too am quite impressed by that tiller, while I'm a bit worried about the nocks.
Jon
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if i were you i would heat treat the deflexed section of the lower limb...maybe even bend it straight a bit, even though it's admirable that you are tillering what the stave gave you, sometimes the stave can't handle it, good job tho.
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Gutsy. That's a tough one. Proof is in the pudding and it looks like you made some. :)
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if i were you i would heat treat the deflexed section of the lower limb...maybe even bend it straight a bit, even though it's admirable that you are tillering what the stave gave you, sometimes the stave can't handle it, good job tho.
I'm not understanding your point Zion. The wood is under no more strain with that wonky profile than it would be if it was straight IF it's tillered properly. And I do believe this one is. Furthermore, having already been tillered and shot in some, heat bending it straight now would be courting disaster in my opinion. The belly wood cells have already been deformed by compression. They would likely tear apart if you tried to stretch the belly out to make it straight. If I misunderstood you, by all means straighten me out. Josh
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Thanks guys and I swear it is really good tiller. Rossfactor, it has zero kick or vibration on shot and is super quiet and fast. Thanks guys for your input, and u guys are awesome. I thought about the tiller in my sleep because of how hard it was. I was literally banging my head against the wall trying to get it straight. Eric is going to hunt with it this year and ill post pics if he gets anything. On to the next one :)
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Gun doc you're right, i did a crappy job explaining lol, sorry about that. What I'm trying to say is that BEFORE tillering the bow, then you could heat it straight, I know i made it sound otherwise. To me it looks like the transition from the deep handle into the 1/3 of the limb is taking more strain than otherwise necessary, even if it IS deflexed. By saying that sometimes the stave has limitations, I meant that maybe the wood right under the handle could be left a little thicker, or be heat treated, since it's being pushed so hard by the reflexed outer limb. I'm still learning, this is just my observation. Please correct me if my reasoning is wrong.
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Thats a tough one! A bow with that profile is difficult to tiller by eye and even more difficult to look at a pic and try to decide if the tiller is good. So if it feels like it has even limb strain and shoots good with no handshock as you say it does then I'll take your word for it. Good Job on a difficult stave. Where are you at in Oklahoma?
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I see what your saying on the heat bending now. Yeah that would be the time to do it and I would guess that most folks would do just that. That stave would have been pretty easy to straighten out if he would of so desired. But he took the challenge and did it the hard way. I can respect that. ;D. As far as the other point goes, I believe that you are overthinking it a bit. I don't think that I can come up with the words to explain it either, but I'll try. First thing you have to do with a stave like this is banish any visual symmetry from your mind. If you don't start with symmetry, at no point of the draw should it appear symmetrical. The goal is equal proportions of bend throughout the limb and a balance between the limbs. If you were to make a mark every two inches down both limbs, set it up on the tree unbraced and make corresponding marks on the wall behind each point as a starting reference. Now brace it, put it back in the same place, make new reference marks on the wall for brace. Do the same thing every few inches of draw to full draw. Now take down the bow and measure the marks throughout the draw and compare the corresponding marks on each limb for distance traveled. The tips should have moved the same distance. Midlimb of each limb should have moved the same distance as the other at the same point of draw and so on and so forth. I'm not saying to actually do this, just try and visualize each corresponding section of the limb bending the same distance as the same section on the other limb. Regardless of how asymmetrical the bend appears, if it is only doing the portion of bending that its supposed to be doing, it is under no more strain than its supposed to be. I think that I just confused myself actually. Short and sweet summation, even though it looks like a hinge, it is not. It is only bending as much as its supposed to. Man, I got a headache now! Josh
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Haha thanks Gun Doc for clearing it up, I understand now lol. I guess i'm just OCD about that kind of thing, but if it shoots good who cares what it looks like haha :) Yeah he did a good job on the tillering, It really comes down to knowing what to look for.
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Haha thanks Gun Doc for clearing it up, I understand now lol. I guess i'm just OCD about that kind of thing, but if it shoots good who cares what it looks like haha :) Yeah he did a good job on the tillering, It really comes down to knowing what to look for.
I know what ya mean I think I have OCD too lol >:D but then again any wood bow from a stave isn't going to be perfectly symmetrical
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Thanks and gun doc, I actually put markers on the wall just to make sure they were bending evenly :D :D :D great minds think alike:) haha. Okie, I live by North okc. Smack dab in the middle. If u live in the pan handle or by Mcallister I'm going mule deer, pronghorn, and white tail hunting this year. Maybe we could meet and talk bowyer talk :)
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Haha thanks Gun Doc for clearing it up, I understand now lol. I guess i'm just OCD about that kind of thing, but if it shoots good who cares what it looks like haha :) Yeah he did a good job on the tillering, It really comes down to knowing what to look for.
I know what ya mean I think I have OCD too lol >:D but then again any wood bow from a stave isn't going to be perfectly symmetrical
You young fellas are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Whether you call it OCD or fiberglass mentality or whatever, its not something I suffer. I'll tell you why, you take a straight and clean stave and Jack up the tiller, everybody can see that you flubbed it. Now you get one of my beauties out, it twists, it turns, rollercoasters, lumps, bumps and knots, Hell it's got more character than the Lord of the rings casting call. Throw a best guess tiller on that bad boy and post it up. People look at it, scratch there head a little and decide, yeah, I'm just gonna give him the benefit of the doubt " Looks good!" Yes sir, character is my friend! >:D. Lol! Josh
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I'm not looking at anything from the wrong perspective I was joking I know and agree with what you're saying
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I don't think being young has anything to do with it. I personally don't use wood that has much significant profile character, and that's my choice. There's a large wood selection and just because you like character bows with challenging profiles doesn't make anybody superior. I'll appreciate a character bow just as much as any other bow posted on here because we all have the same goal. You can call it "fiberglass mentality" or being a "wuss" but it's my personal preference.
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I was bagging on my own skills or lack thereof. It was a joke. The point was its harder to get away with mistakes if you start with a good clean stave and requires a spot on tiller to look good. Character staves play so many tricks on the eye that you can get away with more mistakes. Therefore I use character to hide my lack of skills. I don't think I can say it any better. Josh
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Impressive i think. And really pics dont tell the whole story O:) and all of you bowyers know that . Time will tell . But if it feels right its right . Good job dude ... props .
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I didn't mean to be harsh in my tiller critique, and as I said, that's a heck fo a tough stave to tiller. In retrospect,the word hinge might have been used too soon. And, as its been said its very difficult to evaluate tiller on stave within uneven limb profile.
I stick to my original claim (as an armchair tiller critic ;)) though that the lower limb should be bending more, especially mid limb. In looking at the top limb it has mid limb reflex. And yet you've got it bending nicely (it could even bend a bit more near the handle). The bottom limb has some mild relfex in the outter 1/3 of the limb, but I still feel like it should be coming around more mid limb. Just my 2c. I don't recommend changing the tiller at this point. And I think you should feel good about your effort.
Another way to evaluate your tiller is to find out how much set your bow has taken.
Gabe
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Rossfactor, I THINK I told u guys :/ that it took a half inch set after shot quite a few times. It goes to .25 inch set after its sat for 15 minutes.
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I didn't think you were harsh at all Gabe. I think there is some twist coming out of that fade as well as deflex. The first money shot looks like its bending a bit much, but the money shot from the other side looks pretty good. I'm just guessing on that of course. Josh
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nice bow i would straighten that bow with some heat and then tiller. if you wan't to make up draw weight try cutting a bit off the top or heat treating the belly? F/D looks good. nice bow
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Can't argue with 1/2 inches of set at 30" draw on a 64" long bow.
gr
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You're a few hours west of me WB. I live right on the ok-arkansas state line. Did you get drawn out to hunt the ammo plant in Mcalester? I got drawn out 3 years in a row but missed it this year.
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Yeah I drew Mcallister. What section have u been in? I drew deercreek this year and this is my grist year to put in for it.
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I have hunted all 3 areas. I hunted in deer creek 3 years ago but didnt have much luck in there. It has more to do with what weekend you are hunting than what area you're in. There are tons of deer and really nice bucks in all 3 areas. The november weekend hunts are the only hunts that I put in for now, much more action on those weekends. There is a massive post oak acorn crop this year and that place is full of them, so I would say your best bet is to find a post oak flat and hunt the crap out of it. There are tons of bodark trees down there too so dont get distracted from your hunting admiring all the horseapples dangling from the trees.
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That might be hard :) I will be sad that I can't cut any down. :( I might just cry. But anyways I drew it end of October and I will hunt those areas!
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I was bagging on my own skills or lack thereof. It was a joke. The point was its harder to get away with mistakes if you start with a good clean stave and requires a spot on tiller to look good. Character staves play so many tricks on the eye that you can get away with more mistakes. Therefore I use character to hide my lack of skills. I don't think I can say it any better. Josh
And here i thought i just tillered my character bows "better" than my straight staves ::) ;).
You're too self-deprecating Doc. You've certainly pointed many in the right direction on these tuffies besides myself. I agree with you 100% on how to handle 'em, so you must be right lol
That said..... great job on that tiller wood-bandit, especially for a noob ;)
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Hahaha. Watch out or I might hunt u down with this noob bow, old man!!! ;) LOL
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Yeah K-hat, I was just goofing some and having a little fun. I figure if I pick on myself, nobody will get their feelings hurt. I was wrong. Lol! Josh