Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Badger on September 10, 2013, 02:49:31 pm
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I started excercising with a slight heavier bow today trying to increase my strength. I noticed the only muscles getting pumped up are the ones on the top of my shoulders and neck and not my back muscles. I feel like my alignment must be off and not incorporating those muscles. I did notice I was shrugging my shoulders as I drew. Any advice on how to attain proper alignment so my back muscles play a larger roll in the draw. 65# is the absolute most I can draw to 28" right now and I really need to get to 80#. I have one year.
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I would work on pulling it to the pec height then raising to ear or face or wherever u anchor. I only pull 55# maybe more if I was going for weight. Not bad for a 14 year old :) that is how I exercise them
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A year is a good amount of time to work out a program for yourself. A lot of the heavy-weight warbow guys use trainers they make themselves, from bungee cords or springs.
Working up through the weights using actual bows is fine, but at some point you need to keep getting your hands on bigger bows which can often be tricky. I would recommend making yourself a bow trainer, with a load of bungee cords tied to a wooden grip which is held in the bow hand. Use a tiller to work out and adjust the cords until they're at neat increments, for example 50#, 60#, 70# and 80#. Warm up going through the weights gradually, holding the grip in the left hand and "drawing" the bungee cord with the right, and make sure that you're feeling the muscles work where you want - lower shoulders, bow arm tricep etc. Once you reach the 80# bungee, you should be nicely warmed up and be able to do at least a couple of repetitions, really feeling the muscles working and being confident that you're not straining or working the wrong parts of your body.
With a year in which to achieve it, you can go real slow, taking care of your body and not going up until you feel it getting easy at one weight. And although it sounds obvious and cliché, doing press ups and most importantly pull ups/chin ups is a fantastic way of increasing the right muscle areas without needing equipment. Study videos and images of guys using heavier bows as it's a very different technique to target shooting or hunting.
Hope this helps a little bit!
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I haven't pulled 80# for many years, at 55 yrs old I could still pull 70#, 65 now and noticeabley have lost some strength. The main thing I am concerned with is that I don't feel like I am using the back muscles and for some reason I can't seem to find the right angle to involve them. I am assuming I would feel soreness in them if I was using them. I always thought pulling with my elbow level to my shoulder would automaticaly involve the back muscles but I feel nothing in them after a hard bow workout.
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Hey, Steve
I'm 50 and still shooting warbows. I don't work out, I'm not all muscley. I have been shooting bows all my life, however. My point is, if I can do it, so can you!
Because a picture speaks a thousand words, I'm going to post a sequence of pics of me drawing my 100# warbow to full draw (in this case 31").
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The rest...
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And it's gone...
As far as strength training goes... I just shoot. No bungees, no trainers... just shooting. When I shoot like this, all I can feel are my back muscles. I'll shoot 50-60 arrows a session with this bow, and I can't feel my arms or shoulders getting tired at all. My back muscles feel very engaged and pumped full of blood while I'm shooting.
As far as what I'm thinking about during shooting...
Wide stance, bow up, start to draw, pull through to my right shoulder (not thinking about pulling to my face at all like a normal draw), load up the weight on to my back leg, pull all the way through past my chest, squeeze my shoulder blades together, open my chest to get the last inch of draw, release and shift my weight forward onto my front leg, follow through.
See how my drawing arm (elbow) and the arrow are in alignment throughout the entire draw? That's how I engage my back muscles.
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Good pictures, The big difference I see is my foot placement and using my weight. I will also try to conciously try and squeeze my shoulder blades together. I have always had a strong well developed back but for some reason I just am not using it.
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I went to a lighter bow this morning and did 50 reps drawing to about 30". I did notice some pump in my back muscles this time. I think maybe the heavier bow is throwing me too far out of form and hunching my shoulders. Maybe a lot of reps with the lighter bow and watching my form might help and work up a bit more gradual. The lighter bow is like 56#@30". If I can just add 2# or 3# per month I will have it.
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Yup... keep your shoulders down. I see a lot of people hunching up their shoulders if the bow is a bit heavy. This is exactly what you shouldn't do. I think about drawing back to my shoulder, not my face. That way, I'm not able to hunch up my shoulders.
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I discovered something today, I think it is my bow arm that is weak and not my pulling arm. I switched hands and drew left handed and could draw 80# easily. About 20 year ago I had neck surgery for a piched nerve in my neck that had paralized a good part of my left arm, mostly the tricep and parts of my hand. After surgery the feeling came back and the muscle came back but it never regained full strength. I might just have to learn to shoot left handed if I can't build it back up.
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I was going to say that it is also very important to train left handed as well.
Injuries generally happen when there are muscle imbalances. I do a lot of rock climbing and know only too well about training the antagonists and doing things opposite to normal so not only certain muscles get better.
Also most people don't seem to know this but when you start doing something new (heavier bow) then the muscles involved DON'T actually get stronger for a long time all that happens is your brain basically gets wired up better! Eg. the muscle you already have actually just starts working and the neurological conections to that muscle 'wake up'. So be posistive and keep in mind that it's all there you just have to awaken it.
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I reckon my 'leaning back into an open doorway' exercise is pretty good.
Elbows out pressing against the door frame, lean back, shuffle the feet* forward a foot or two then lever yourself forward and back by using yourback muscles. You can really feel it working the right groups of muscles. It's a bit awkward, but in some ways thats good because it make you do it in a slow controlled manner.
The equipment involved is readilly available and cheap too...just don't try clapping half way through ::)
Del
Obviously beware of slippy floors, inappropriate footware etc.
Please sign the attached disclaimer before attempting this at home. ;)
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adb, just shooting bows is one way that will indeed help you pull back heavier bows as your progress though your archery ..umm..career...for want of a better term. however, in the case of warbow archery, pulling a bow like a warbow is a different compound movement from target archery. compound strength is the net strength of all moving parts, so it will also help if you use bungee ropes to develop other muscles that contribute to the bow drawing movement (specifically bungee because unlike weights, bungee chords more accurately replicate the power curve of a bow which we would see if looking at a graph). that being said, it is important individually develop the forearms, elbow flexors, biceps, triceps, back muscles, rotator cuff, trunk, and even your butt. all those muscles work to pull the bow but there are many as well that need to "hold things in place" and stabilize the ones that carry the most load. constantly shooting is one way to do it, but if we dont use low poundage bows, some areas will not be worked and larger muscles take over, prevent those weak muscles from developing. im pretty certain thats why when the op switched to a lower poundage bow he felt a better pump where there was no pump before.
the ancients would have been working hard anyway, therefore working those smaller muscles in a number of ways, if (from what little i know) there was indeed a movement of yeomen who were trained as archers and employed by the government, there would have been some element of hard work that helped them develop the strength to use those legendary bows. they probably didnt have the same labour reducing technology that we have (whoohoo john deere tractors!)
mike made a good point, you need to sort of train everywhere to get stronger and prevent injury.
btw adb, is that the arms of the canadian warbow society on your shirt?
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Yes
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I did an experiment today with my bow scale to measure my pull at various positions. I seemed to be able to pull 120# on the scale without too much trouble yet 70# is my absolute max I can draw a bow out to 28" on a good day. I am going to play with this some more and see if I can figure out where I am screwing up.
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Bear in mind it's the bow arm that really lets people down! It's much easier to stand upright and heave a cable/string back to 120# for instance, if you're able to use your whole body. Once you are holding the other end of the cable with the bow arm it becomes very, very hard.
Triceps and forearms need to be built up on the bow arm in order to withstand the massive compressive forces they have to deal with when you're shooting heavy bows. There's an interesting trick you can do with a friend, if you hold a heavy bow and as you're about to draw it back, get your friend to hold your wrist, arm or the bow itself just above the arrow pass. Get them to hold it firmly, and you'll suddenly be pulling back way further than you could normally.
If you wanted to isolate muscle groups deliberately to increase bow draw strength, work on the bow arm triceps and biceps and forearms with grip exercises as well as the usual curl type exercises for upper arms. If you couple those with shoulder, chest and upper arm exercises on the drawing arm, you'll get the correct bias for warbow-style weights. It's one of those funny, asymmetrical exercises that really you can only replicate properly by shooting heavy bows.
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That makes good sense, about 20 years ago i had neck surgery for a pinched nerve. My tricep and a good part of my arm had completely atrophied and was paralyzed. after surgery the muscle seemed to come back on its own but I have noticed more weakness in my left bow arm than before. Drawing left handed and hoding the bow with my right I was able to draw 100# not too long ago.
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Hey adb
I've been trying your straight forward technique and I'm sold on it. My old style was more of a push - pull starting low but your style allows for easy/ rapid distance shooting!
Just goes to show, always learning if you keep an open mind!
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Thanks! My 'style' is based on what makes sense to me.
I don't like the rolling loose. The bow is held at full draw far too long, and I don't think it makes a lick of difference in terms of cast. Release from full draw is release from full draw... how you get there is a matter of opinion and as long as you get to full draw, the forces acting on the arrow are the same.
My style provides economy of motion, and the least amount of stress on the bow IMHO. I also seriously doubt that period military archers would have spent the time that a rolling loose requires to get an arrow in the air. Makes no sense to me. I have mostly copied Nick Birmingham's style.
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What type of head have you got on those arrows, looks like type 1 or 16's ?
I recently finished a nice heavy (1450 gn) set of Oak barrelled shafts with cool type 1's, for an early medieval look!
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Mostly type 16s and a few type 10s.