Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: BryBow on September 01, 2013, 10:11:46 pm
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Well.. The first one broke. Now I may try my hand at a Mollegabet design.
The grain on this 8' Red Oak board is straight as an arrow. I cut it to 6 foot. I ripped it to 2.5" wide on the table saw. The handle and risers are 9" long overall. 5" & 2" fades. I then split the working limbs and ends in half. 15 3/4" working and 15 3/"4 non working. Taper to 1/2" tips. The board is 3/4" thick.
Rich suggested I taper the working limbs.
I am completely open to your guidance and suggestions and am looking forward to giving credit where credit is due. I hope it turns out well.
Here are the pics so far.
The board.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/346a172aa25119bab312c30c317f9fcc_zpsd0502927.jpg)
Measured to 6' and cut.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/164a73b3a0d291bb1ccee4b5c0eb1421_zps4f731b41.jpg)
Ripped 2.5" wide
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/081eea42035bbb97948e48420bf4b9d6_zpsd5b9f6cb.jpg)
Measured in half.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/622a7f22ae2e19d66a42b17a4fd1581f_zpse39e7f45.jpg)
Handle and fades measured and marked.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/0edcdd4e4ce6723f51cb3a9e7b3c3744_zps9237ec0f.jpg)
Working limbs measured and marked.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/9510ee1b3d1286c3ba1cba0a7b273311_zpse5d27f00.jpg)
Non working limbs measured and marked.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/8d7b3de93abd88fe10aedb3007d6098e_zpsdab3cd5f.jpg)
I went no further because I value your opinion so let her rip boys.
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Well if ya have a table saw rip it to just over 7/16" thick and lay it out. 66" long could work out..
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Not sure I understand what your telling me to do bow101. The board is 72" long and has non working limbs as it is of a Mollegabet design.
By the way, I am shooting for 45# at 28" and the board is 3/4" thick.
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BryBow Go to the top right of the page at the SEARCH and type in.
Layout dimensions for Mollegabet bows.
Start there
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So... My overall length should be either 66" or 60" and the handle would be 4" and the fades 2" each. Correcto Mundo?
BTW What are the consequences of having a 72" Molle?
Lets get me clear on the Dims and then well move on after I get them marked out on the board.
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Step 1: Don't make a Mollegabet for your second bow attempt.
(I'm only joking a little)
I'm sure it can be done but I see a lot of molle's break on this site, even made by experienced bowyers. Heck, I even broke one. ;) It's a design that can be pulled off as evidenced by the many great molle's made here but it's a highly stressed design with several complicating factors that can make it more prone to failure. My advice is to make a straight limbed flat bow and nail the tiller. Whatever you decide to do, good luck. I'm sure you'll get plenty of good advice on whatever build you choose.
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Ok... My first attempt was a pyramid. It broke.
Here it is: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,41789.0.html
I know it broke because it had no fades to speak of.
I was wondering if someone was going to suggest an easier build. Even my daughter was surprised that I would not try and perfect my first attempt as I had experience with that style. Wisdom from the mouth of the young.
Would you keep the pyramid style build at 2.5" wide or would you recommend that I rip the Red Oak board to smaller width? If suggesting a narrower width how wide should it be and what are the rest of the dims that you would suggest keeping a 28" draw at 45#?
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if you wanna go with a Pyramid bow, 68" long 2" wide 4" handle 2" fades. Start by makes the limbs 1/2" thick. Then taper the limbs straight to 1/2" tips. Take your time tillering and you should get a good bow from it.
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Thank you Bowman. Anybody else want to weigh in on this?
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I think those dimensions seem solid but I'm not much of a board bow guy so there might be other opinions worth listening to. Having as close to straight grain as possible is the most important factor for the success of your bow. It seems good from the few pictures I can see but you need to look down the faces and the edges and feel confident that there is little to no run off.
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I would say stick with a pyramid design until you get it right. The pyramid style is one of the simplest designs to tiller because it tapers evenly from the fades to the tips. So the thickness of the limbs are virtually the same from top to bottom. That is not to say a pyramid bow is less of a bow than other designs. It's just usually easier to tiller for beginners.
Whereas, the molle design is much more complicated, so it seems to me. I haven't been brave enough to attempt one, YET. The reasons the molle is more complicated are the working part of the limps are shorter. The tips/levers don't bend. So there's more stress on less limb length. Also, the limbs are parallel, so you have to taper their thickness from the fades to the lever. Then you have increase the thickness from working part of the limbs through the transition to the levers. There's lots of limb thickness changes in a molle limb. And your tillering has to be nearly bomb proof on those shorter working limbs.
But it's your bow, build what you want to build. It's all about the journey, anyhow. :)
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Step 1: Don't make a Mollegabet for your second bow attempt.
(I'm only joking a little)
I'm sure it can be done but I see a lot of molle's break on this site, even made by experienced bowyers. Heck, I even broke one. ;) It's a design that can be pulled off as evidenced by the many great molle's made here but it's a highly stressed design with several complicating factors that can make it more prone to failure. My advice is to make a straight limbed flat bow and nail the tiller. Whatever you decide to do, good luck. I'm sure you'll get plenty of good advice on whatever build you choose.
I'm kind of with Weylin on this one, "highly stressed design" and tricky to build even for experienced bowyers. So like I mentioned just slice it shy of 1/2 inch. Do some searching on Bubby here, he has a few build a longs on board bows, he is truly a master when it comes to building those bows..! ;)
If you are good with hand and power tools you should be able to turn out a fine shooting bow on the weekend no Prob........... ;)
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I agree with everyone..BUT...do what makes ya happy and gives ya enjoyment too at the same time...and its possible 8) ....just might take ya a few tries ;)
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=37380.0
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=40916.0
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Had ta tease me with those two bows ey Blackhawk?
Just gorges bows, both of em.
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try this I think it has all the info you need, bub http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.0.html
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try this I think it has all the info you need, bub http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.0.html
Bubby, that is a great How-to link. I used it when I was building my red oak trade bow. Thanks. However, I had one issue. When I'd use the handsaw to cut the excess belly wood off, cutting down from the handle to the limb. I would cut to far; usually on the side away from me. By the time I would sand out the tool marks the bow would be too light. I did that on bows. It's not the fault of your instructions. It's my inability to saw flat with a hand saw.
What I did on my 3rd attempt, was to stop cutting with the circular saw 2 inches farther out than your guide line suggested. Then I used a bandsaw to finish cutting the excess belly would off by running it on out the circular saw line and taping up the riser.
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sounds like you got it to work for you, it's not the end all do all for a build, just how I do some of mine, i'm glad you were able to make it work with a minor tweek, I always draw a cut line on the side to cut and cut from that side, and stay away from the belly in the kerf
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I did well cutting the wood out left by the circular pattern of the saw blade. It was just cutting down toward the belly to remove that excess strip that gave me fits. haha Hind sight is always 20/20. I should have just put a thin shim down the saw line between the belly and the wood that was being removed. That way the saw would have cut the shim not the belly of the limb. duh!
Anyway, I have 2 perfectly good red oak board bow blanks to back with maple or red oak in the future. ;)
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Ok bubby, I took everyone's advice and decided to go with the pyramid again. I need to get it right. Seeing as I have my own Big Jim recurve, I am going to try and build this 25# at 26.5" for my daughter. This build takes its measurements from your build along bubby.
I have several questions and then the pictures. I want to layer some woods for the knocks. Rock cedar, red oak and then black walnut. Any thoughts on this?
I still need to shape the riser and am wondering if I should put a shelf on her. Heaven knows there's enough riser to do it. Any suggestions other than the bubby build along?
Here's the pics.
Before ripping the limbs on the table saw.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zps6e3606df.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zps146012c0.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zpsa8b482d8.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zpsa8db49bf.jpg)
After ripping the limbs on the table saw and roughing in the fades on the bandsaw.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zps47608e94.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zps7b285ad1.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zpsa79c72b9.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zps872de4d1.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zps3751136b.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zps85f90945.jpg)
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz12/BryBow/null_zpsba79b24a.jpg)
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I like the fades so far, wish I'd had a bandsaw to do mine. That was a hell of a lot of work with the rasp!
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Thanks Jackson,
Yes, all those tools make it allot easier but I bet you have a better appreciation for your bows when your done.
I saw on your blog where the riser on your 1st. Bow broke. Did you figure out why it broke? Looks to me like you just cut it off an finished it, is that correct?
Why did you back your wife's bow? Did you back your bow?
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The fade from handle/riser down to the limb seem a little abrupt to me. And the first pic after you post you have ripped the board with the table saw, the left limb right at the fade looks thinner than the rest of that limb. It might just be the lighting. Be careful of the area of the limb right out of the fade. This area gets the most pressure when you're drawing/tillering the bow. It's easy to get a hinge/crystal there.
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The fade from handle/riser down to the limb seem a little abrupt to me.
They are at 45 degrees. How many degrees more should I angle the fades into the limbs?
I checked the limb thickness from the fades to the tips and there is no variance.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,5129.0.html
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Thanks Jackson,
Yes, all those tools make it allot easier but I bet you have a better appreciation for your bows when your done.
I saw on your blog where the riser on your 1st. Bow broke. Did you figure out why it broke? Looks to me like you just cut it off an finished it, is that correct?
Why did you back your wife's bow? Did you back your bow?
I had like, zero fade in my handle. It fortunately broke along the shoddy glue line that I did, so I took the piece off, carved it down to a much slimmer piece, and glued it right back on. So far it hasn't broke again, so I think it can flex enough with the bow.
I backed the wife's bow because I wasn't 100% sure of the maple board I selected. I figured with a nice piece of hickory it would durable enough. Truth to tell, I wouldn't do it that way again. It was a pain, and very difficult to get the piece glued up properly. If I had a better work space than the kitchen, it would help.
My bow was backed with linen, which I am thinking about adding some paint to. I don't like the yellow color the linen turned when it absorbed all the wood glue.