Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Zion on August 09, 2013, 06:37:31 pm

Title: S**t happens!!
Post by: Zion on August 09, 2013, 06:37:31 pm
K so this morning i shaped the other overlay for my new elm bow and i was sanding it down with a little belt sander. As i was sanding the belly of the tip, a tiny little splinter was caught and ripped off a good 5-6 inches of wood about 1/2" deep. Needless to say i was pissed. Worst time for a damn tearout ever!!   >:( I took some chisels and smoothed the groove out a bit. The tiller didn't look to be too effected so i strung it up, it's just a little whip ended and i could fix that if i wanted to. I guess the good news is that the overlays work ::). But i'm not confident in the bow anymore. I'll try laminating a piece of wood onto the belly, I guess i'm feeling ambitious after seeing Simon's work  >:D. Would normal tightbond wood glue be fine for the job? I'll upload pics.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Joec123able on August 09, 2013, 06:53:35 pm
Thats power tools for ya I'm glad I don't have any because I'd be screwing up a lot of bows lmao  >:D
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Zion on August 09, 2013, 06:58:45 pm
Ikr! I doubt this would have happened with any other wood then elm cuz its so stringy, but i think i'm gonna stop using any powertools lol, i think they have bad karma....  ::)
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: bushboy on August 09, 2013, 07:02:47 pm
Plumbers sand cloth works amazing for bow finishing ,tips,etc !it's 2" wide and comes in a roll.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Zion on August 09, 2013, 07:38:11 pm
i'll see if my ACE as some, lol i seem to have trouble getting elm smooth.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: bow101 on August 09, 2013, 07:56:19 pm
Good luck with it "Zee"  hopefully you can pull it off, and not rite it off as another lousy stick... :o
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: dwardo on August 10, 2013, 05:11:25 am
Yew is another favourite of mine for pulling a splinter. Elm is also great at this.
I have to put my real cutting tools in another room when tillering and stick with the scraper.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Dances with squirrels on August 10, 2013, 06:29:54 am
I went through a power tool phase... thought I would save time and effort. Which I did, I ruined them very quickly and easily  :'(  All part of the learning process.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Hamish on August 10, 2013, 08:38:11 am
You might be able to get away with titebond, but it definitely wouldn't be my first choice. It doesn't dry to a rigid   glueline like urac or smooth on,  so titbond can lift at the edges(sometimes it doesn't).
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: koan on August 10, 2013, 08:40:12 am
Man... That sux.. Just discovered the osage ive been workin got bout an 8 in wind shear crack in the same area as yours, be lucky to get a 30#er from it. Been thinkin bout gluin on a piece. Never done that on a belly but i spose it should work...
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: adb on August 10, 2013, 11:15:31 am
Yew is another favourite of mine for pulling a splinter. Elm is also great at this.
I have to put my real cutting tools in another room when tillering and stick with the scraper.

Pulling splinters on yew??? Really??
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: autologus on August 10, 2013, 12:57:04 pm
I shape my tips by hand with a file.

Grady
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on August 10, 2013, 01:05:06 pm
60 grit sandpaper on a block. never pulls splinters.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: randman on August 10, 2013, 02:30:03 pm
Unless that tip is bending way too much at that spot, I wouldn't even worry about it there on the belly. If it was on the back side I'd be more concerned.......... If you are too worried about you could always do like you're thinking - thin belly lam.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Zion on August 10, 2013, 04:12:33 pm
Idk guys. Just the fact that i was literally 10 seconds away from finishing a great shooter really pisses me off. I guess the thing i want for my #1 is total dependability. My current one is serviceberry with a rawhide grip. Simple as can be. If i do glue on a belly lam, the glueline could always fail when im shooting, and in my head i don't like that. I'm sure it'll still shoot, i just don't think it'll get much action. Time to start another i think.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: bow101 on August 10, 2013, 09:20:26 pm
If i do glue on a belly lam, the glueline could always fail when im shooting, and in my head i don't like tha

If glued right it should not de-laminate. The glue is tougher than the wood itself.  I have even glued pieces together having one chunk that was end grain to face grain and held nicely.

Split that Hawthorn today it was a bit of a challenge especially when I'm using a skill saw.  Made it most of the way, finally split it with the hatchet.  The Hawthorn was cut March 4th.  Still a little damp inside so I sealed it right louie and put it in the garage. All in all the staves look great no pin worms or bugs.
I just hope I get 1 bow from the 2 chunks.......... ;)
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Zion on August 11, 2013, 09:06:27 pm
I'll wait on what to do with this one. I have another one going that's performing just as good. Good luck with that hawthorn, nice job getting it spit  :o
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: mikekeswick on August 12, 2013, 03:01:19 am
Complete waste of time gluing on a thin lam. Tb needs flawless mating surfaces.......Your best bet would be to fill the hole with fine sawdust and add some superglue. Packing it down as you go. Or simply put it down to experience. Also never sand uphill into the feathered ends of growth rings....as you now know.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Joec123able on August 12, 2013, 03:46:31 am
Complete waste of time gluing on a thin lam. Tb needs flawless mating surfaces.......Your best bet would be to fill the hole with fine sawdust and add some superglue. Packing it down as you go. Or simply put it down to experience. Also never sand uphill into the feathered ends of growth rings....as you now know.

Tite bond needs a flawless mating surface ?? My first tip overlays were put on with tite Bond 2 plain HORRIBLE glue line yet the overlays are still on that bow and the tite bond has not failed after easily over 1000 shots put through that crappy bow So I'm gonna have to disagree on that
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: bubby on August 12, 2013, 04:32:42 am
Complete waste of time gluing on a thin lam. Tb needs flawless mating surfaces.......Your best bet would be to fill the hole with fine sawdust and add some superglue. Packing it down as you go. Or simply put it down to experience. Also never sand uphill into the feathered ends of growth rings....as you now know.

Tite bond needs a flawless mating surface ?? My first tip overlays were put on with tite Bond 2 plain HORRIBLE glue line yet the overlays are still on that bow and the tite bond has not failed after easily over 1000 shots put through that crappy bow So I'm gonna have to disagree on that

do you just like to argue, a bad glue line doesn't mean it won't hold, your like the contrary man in "little big mam", somebody says one thing and you say another, crappy glue lines on a crappy bow just means crappy craftsmanship, I wouldn't be bragging about it, bub
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Joec123able on August 12, 2013, 04:42:23 am
Complete waste of time gluing on a thin lam. Tb needs flawless mating surfaces.......Your best bet would be to fill the hole with fine sawdust and add some superglue. Packing it down as you go. Or simply put it down to experience. Also never sand uphill into the feathered ends of growth rings....as you now know.

Tite bond needs a flawless mating surface ?? My first tip overlays were put on with tite Bond 2 plain HORRIBLE glue line yet the overlays are still on that bow and the tite bond has not failed after easily over 1000 shots put through that crappy bow So I'm gonna have to disagree on that

do you just like to argue, a bad glue line doesn't mean it won't hold, your like the contrary man in "little big mam", somebody says one thing and you say another, crappy glue lines on a crappy bow just means crappy craftsmanship, I wouldn't be bragging about it, bub


Oh  :-\  ok ... Not bragging just pointing out anyways I'll avoid commenting from now on to please everyone
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 12, 2013, 08:36:09 am
We all have built anomalies that break major rules and yet still work somehow, however the odds are heavily against us all the same. Mike is correct. A crap glue line will come apart 95% of the time. One personal example isn't adequate to shut his comment down so quickly. Im betting Mikes answer is derived from various types of de-lam's over the years of building bows. 
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: koan on August 12, 2013, 11:37:51 am
+1 Pearlie...we have all gotten away with somethin that shouldnt work.. Try whatever ya think might work... If it dont pan out let it be your teacher... Experimentation is how primitive archery was Re-discovered...not all that long ago.... Brian
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Don Case on August 12, 2013, 12:01:58 pm
I'm new but I'll take a shot. From what I've read I would think that the tips are one of the least stressed areas. Gluing tips on could be accomplished with a poor joint. The glue joint is in compression. Gluing a splint on probably puts the joint in shear, a much more critical joint.
Don
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on August 12, 2013, 12:06:59 pm
Don the overlays are highly stressed and require a great fit with great glue to withstand lots of shooting. The string loop is continuously trying to "pull" that overlay inward.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Don Case on August 12, 2013, 12:15:59 pm
Ah, yes. I was thinking about when the bow was drawn, the stress would be pressing the parts together. But you're right, there would be a strong force trying to slide the tip down the bow. That would put the joint in shear all the time. Oh well, back on my head.
Don
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Cameroo on August 12, 2013, 06:51:45 pm
You don't have to abandon power tools.  You just learned a lesson on how to use them properly :)  Don't stick the tip into the rotation of the belt and you'll be fine  ;)
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: DLH on August 12, 2013, 07:05:52 pm
Don the overlays are highly stressed and require a great fit with great glue to withstand lots of shooting. The string loop is continuously trying to "pull" that overlay inward.

When over lays are cut at an angle through the growth rings does that impart more or less stress on the overlays? Or is that neglebible and just done for looks?
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Zion on August 12, 2013, 09:03:44 pm
Well like i said i'm putting it down for now 'cuz i don't want a #1 bow that isn't 100% dependable. I could get away with a heat-treatment and retiller to keep it simple if i wanted to.
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: bow101 on August 12, 2013, 09:54:14 pm
I hear Ya..!  Just broke number 7 ,,was setting them up and went to un-brace it and the last 6" broke off.
Was unbracing the push pull method.. :o
Why.......? because it was to stiff in the fades.  At any rate I may be able to pike it @ 56"  See what prevails..
Title: Re: S**t happens!!
Post by: Zion on August 12, 2013, 09:57:45 pm
That sucks 101. I haven't broken many lately, just not happy with the ones that i make lol.