Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: AH on August 04, 2013, 12:08:06 am

Title: Laminate warbow help
Post by: AH on August 04, 2013, 12:08:06 am
Ok, So I'm thinking of making myself a laminated warbow. Probably just two laminations. I hear that bamboo and hickory are really popular for backing, but unfortunately I don't have access to those. Here are the woods that are available at my local lumber yard:
 
maple
american ash
walnut
jatoba
cherry
bloodwood
bubinga
purple heart
red oak
white oak
cocobolo

No bamboo, hickory, lemonwood, osage, ipe, none of those that I would immediately look to for making a warbow. Would any of these woods I listed here work?
Also, would it be possible to splice two shorter pieces together as the belly lam and still be able to make a bow that bends through the handle?
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: Cameroo on August 04, 2013, 02:04:36 am
Of the woods listed, I would think that some nice, straight grained, quartersawn maple or white oak would be your best options.  I don't think splicing the belly wood would be a good idea for a warbow.  Not saying it couldn't be done, but your chances of success would be greater with a full length piece.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: Joec123able on August 04, 2013, 02:09:24 am
I'd do white oak back, maple core and Maybe Jatoba belly
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: medicinewheel on August 04, 2013, 02:48:02 am
Maple-backed straight-grained Jatoba; make it long, make it wide!
This here is not a warbow but 60# and works real nice:
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: toomanyknots on August 04, 2013, 10:03:00 am
I have had horrible luck with jatoba as a belly wood. At first with some lighter bows, it worked pretty nice. I thought it was better than ipe, as it shot a bit faster. But as soon as I moved onto anything over 30#, it chrysaled instantly. I have seen some nice jatoba bows, but for a warbow I would not even think about it. For some reason it chrysals very easy, for me at least it does. First I think you need to find some quality backing material, as that is harder to find than belly material I think. Look for 6 or 8 quarter flatsawn, in maple and ash. Maple will be most likely easier to find a good piece than ash, but I think both will make ok backings. You need to look down the side of the board though, to see if the grain is straight with minimal run offs. When you find one, you can rip down the side of the board and have quarter sawn of flatsawn backings. Don't really know what to tell you with belly wood with your selection, you can try ash or white oak since you can get it. If you look around places that sell decking material, you might find some ipe. I've heard white oak takes a good amount of set. I've heard cherry chrysals. Bloodwood is very dense, might wanna give that a try, but I don't know personally how it will do. I think john strunk made an english longbow out of it. I've seen plenty of red oak english longbows on here, but no red oak warbows. I think good red oak might be able to take it, but bad red oak can be pretty bad and chrysal so you have to be picky. The lighter colored red oak, with thicker rings and less early wood takes less set. Don't ask me why it always has thicker rings, no idea why, it just seems to be this way for me, haha. Might just be the selection at my local home depot? And I don't know about cocobolo, but that stuff is like 100 - 150 for a 6 - 8 foot board at my local woodcraft!
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: Cameroo on August 04, 2013, 02:01:07 pm
I've used white oak as a backing on several bows now, and it seems to be every bit as good as maple or ash.

White oak back, purple heart mid lam, and maple belly would look cool :)
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: toomanyknots on August 04, 2013, 07:06:14 pm
I've used white oak as a backing on several bows now, and it seems to be every bit as good as maple or ash.

White oak back, purple heart mid lam, and maple belly would look cool :)

True, true. I will tell you though that the last maple I used for belly's did not turn out well at all. Could just be the batch I got though. I would think it might be the backing that caused it, over powering the softer maple belly... but I used a maple backing?  :o I actually like hickory for belly's for that "white wood backing - purple heart - white wood belly" combination. I know everyone must think I am either mad or half retarded... they're probably right either way, :).
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: AndiE on August 05, 2013, 01:03:48 pm
Make a 70#@32" (not more with the woods you mentioned!) trilam with ash back, purleheart core and cherry belly. Will look great and will work nice.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: mikekeswick on August 06, 2013, 03:51:30 am
Just google ipe decking boards supplier. You can get ipe just about anywhere. Which is a sign of things to come but......
If you are new to splices forget splicing the handle. You can easily get ipe long enough. It can be done but stay away for now.
Backing - ash , white oak, maple all will work well. You must get a board with flawless straight grain for backing heavy bows. Do not ignore the last point I made it's way more important than the wood choice!
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: medicinewheel on August 06, 2013, 04:10:00 am
...
Backing - ash , white oak, maple all will work well. You must get a board with flawless straight grain for backing heavy bows. Do not ignore the last point I made it's way more important than the wood choice!

Backing might be the problem: seen a wellmade lightweight ipé bow break through the backing. which was thick enough perfect grain elm. With ipé it should be boo or hickory. Jmo.
Ash backed, maple backed Jatoba, long enough, wide enough should work for a 70-80#@30-32"
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: adb on August 06, 2013, 06:44:50 pm
...
Backing - ash , white oak, maple all will work well. You must get a board with flawless straight grain for backing heavy bows. Do not ignore the last point I made it's way more important than the wood choice!

Backing might be the problem: seen a wellmade lightweight ipé bow break through the backing. which was thick enough perfect grain elm. With ipé it should be boo or hickory. Jmo.
Ash backed, maple backed Jatoba, long enough, wide enough should work for a 70-80#@30-32"



I find elm is not great at backing anything. It's seems prone to lifting splinters.

I disagree regarding jatoba. It does make good narrow profile ELBs up to about 50#, but I wouldn't go past there. It's prone to chrysalling, and not the best choice for a warbow. As mentioned, ipe is a much better choice.
Ash, maple, hickory or bamboo... all good backing material (with appropriate grain of course).

You can splice the handle on a laminated warbow, and I've done it up to 100#. I made a hickory backed, bamboo core, with a spliced osage belly... 100#@32". Not a good first choice, however. Also, you have to tiller the handle stiff as a result of splicing.

The best laminated warbows I've made (and continue to make) are maple backed yew. 78" NTN, 1.5" wide, 1.25" deep. It's an amazing combination, and dare I say it, better than a self yew stave.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on August 07, 2013, 03:08:13 pm
I thought white oak was ridiculously good in tension???
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: adb on August 07, 2013, 05:33:52 pm
It is.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: AH on August 07, 2013, 09:03:30 pm
I would have gone with white oak, but I have had really mixed luck with the white oak I've gotten from this store. Some of it was absolutely awesome, and some of it broke right away, even when the board had absolutely straight grain.
I might order the ipe online then. I hear that it's real oily though, what type of glue would be the best for the job? I can't get my hands on urac-185 anymore, and I don't want to pay a whole lot for glue.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: adb on August 07, 2013, 11:55:39 pm
I've used nothing but TB3 on ipe, with zero glue line failures.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: Thesquirrelslinger on August 08, 2013, 11:54:20 am
take some hardwood ashes, mix them with water and scrub the ipe, then rinse with boiling water 2 times.
it is a effective degreaser. or you could use lye in the form of drain cleaner....
TB3 is good stuff. i don't have any though :(
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: Cameroo on August 08, 2013, 12:18:18 pm
... or you can just use rubbing alcohol or acetone ;)  Use a lint-free cloth and rub it until the cloth stops picking up color from the oil.  Then you only have to give it a few minutes to evaporate before gluing up.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: toomanyknots on August 08, 2013, 01:28:49 pm
I've used nothing but TB3 on ipe, with zero glue line failures.

Same here, so far anyway. I haven't made a boat load of ipe bows though.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: PortlandJoe on August 12, 2013, 10:17:15 pm
Maple-backed straight-grained Jatoba; make it long, make it wide!
This here is not a warbow but 60# and works real nice:
nice sax
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: kevinsmith5 on September 17, 2013, 11:14:26 pm
Where are you located? I know you can order some bamboo for backing relatively cheap (I've bought it off eBay as unplaned lengths). I've used white oak to back bows up to 70 lbs, never had any trouble with them. Might work for heavier draws, I've just always used boo on high draw weights.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: AH on September 17, 2013, 11:17:01 pm
Where are you located? I know you can order some bamboo for backing relatively cheap (I've bought it off eBay as unplaned lengths). I've used white oak to back bows up to 70 lbs, never had any trouble with them. Might work for heavier draws, I've just always used boo on high draw weights.
Bay Area, Cali.
Title: Re: Laminate warbow help
Post by: kevinsmith5 on September 17, 2013, 11:20:37 pm
Have you checked for local shops that make custom molding and trim? Nearly all my wood comes from a place like that. It costs me less to buy ipe there than red oak at Lowes.