Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: RakoPatcher on July 24, 2013, 08:21:51 pm
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Hey all,
So, I'm planning on making a sinew backed D bow, about 52" long (my first attempt at a bow, so we'll see how this goes). I have a split mulberry stave. I've spent hours reading about making bows, and one thing that has come up quite often is that on the back of the bow, one should carefully remove the bark so as to not touch the actual wood on the back. But, from what I've seen of bows, it seems that they are flat on both belly, back and sides. Plus, given that my stave is 2 inches wide, that would create a roundness that doesn't seem right to me. But, I recently read an article about Native American D bows, where the author said that they didn't worry too much about cutting that wood since it was sinew backed.
So, whats the opinion? Should a sinew backed D bow be left round on the back, or rasped flat?
Also, if anyone has any good articles on constructing D bows, or just about them in general, I'd appreciate a link.
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A sinew backed bow is an advanced build. First bow should be, in my humble opinion, about learning to build a wood bow. Lots to learn and work at. Once you can do that successfully, then sinew back one of those correctly built bows. You are probably putting in countless hours on a build that will be frustrating till the end, and the end might not be pretty. My take, build a self bow. Tiller it well and get it to hold together. If you are still compelled to sinew one then sinew that one or build another and sinew back it, but get the basics down first.
Crowned back is fine if you decide to pursue this.
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You know every bow that came from a stave is round on the back unless its decrowned but the bigger the tree the flatter the back will be
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Slimbob:
The standard self bow was my intention, but I've found it very difficult to find good trees for staves here in Arizona. The best I've been able to find is this 52" long, 2" wide piece. The standard for a self bow seems to be in the upper 60 inches, into the 70s. So for my stave, it seems to me that a D bow would be my best option (if a stiff handled self bow would work on this size, let me know). And I have very long arms, so with my long draw length, I'd be worried about whether an unbacked shortish bow would hold. So, this is the stave I've got, and even if I'll probably fail, I still want to give it a shot.
And, you say a backed bow is an advanced build; wouldn't that be the same as building any other bow, just with the extra step of applying sinew?
Thanks for the reply.
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You know every bow that came from a stave is round on the back unless its decrowned but the bigger the tree the flatter the back will be
So its fine to have as much roundness as I will have from a 2" branch?
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You know every bow that came from a stave is round on the back unless its decrowned but the bigger the tree the flatter the back will be
So its fine to have as much roundness as I will have from a 2" branch?
Yes ! My very first bow not even kidding was a bent mulberry stick smaller in diameter then that worked fine
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I agree with slimbob. For the cost and hassle of the sinew you could easily have a high quality stave shipped to you by a reputable dealer. Check out echo archery, Carson has a lot of good staves for a good price. Heck, if you already have the sinew I bet you could trade it to someone here in the trading post for a decent stave. You live in Arizona so a good wood for you would be Hickory. It wouldn't be hard to find someone willing to ship a good hickory stave out your way. It tolerates the super dry weather better than most other woods. I really urge you to postpone the sinew backed bow. You'll thank yourself in the end. I've got 20ish successful bows under my belt (which isn't all that much compared to many on this site) but I have yet to tackle a sinew backed bow. It isn't so much the complexity of sinew backing that makes it a poor choice for a first bow. the act of putting on the sinew isn't rocket surgery (though it certainly can be done poorly). It does add cost/resources, it adds weeks/months to the process and it requires more advanced knowledge about bow design and performance if you want it to actually help your bow as opposed to adding a bunch of dead weight. So with all that in consideration, if you mess up the tiller on your first bow (which many people do) and it breaks or comes in way under weight then you've done all that work and waiting for nothing.
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Alright, I guess I've been talked out of my plans. It feels like it would take away some of the authenticity of a self bow to buy a stave, though, but I'll consider that. :)
So I suppose the question is now, would it be foreseeable for me to make a 52" mulberry D bow with no backing that would be able to handle my long draw length?
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you can always make that 52" bow and short draw it.
if nothing else it'll give you some experience in tillering.
AND short bows are really fun to shoot! I have a 44" sinew backed bow that I short draw and it's a blast
shooting that bow! I'm not terribly accurate with it (don't have properly spined arrows for it) but it's still
really fun to shoot.
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Sounds like a plan. We'll see how this goes.
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I admire your ambition, and should you decide to do this, many on this site will help, and give advise, me included. Just know that many builders reading this are on there 3rd, 4th, or 5th builds without a shooter to show for it. So "just the extra step of adding sinew" glosses over the important step just before the sinew, building a bow to put sinew on. 90% of the build, as the sinew is the easy part, not the other way around. I'm no expert, and many on here will attest to that :) but I think most people with any experience would give the same advise as I have given. 52 inches is short for a self bow but very doable. May have to shorten the draw up a little, but a good project to undertake.
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You know every bow that came from a stave is round on the back unless its decrowned but the bigger the tree the flatter the back will be
I disagree. I've chased a ring on quite a few staves that had concave backs. They are a pain. The finished bow had a concave back on it.
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You know every bow that came from a stave is round on the back unless its decrowned but the bigger the tree the flatter the back will be
I disagree. I've chased a ring on quite a few staves that had concave backs. They are a pain. The finished bow had a concave back on it.
Ohh yea sorry didn't even think about that but either way MOST staves have a round back
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A sinew backed bow is an advanced build. First bow should be, in my humble opinion, about learning to build a wood bow. Lots to learn and work at. Once you can do that successfully, then sinew back one of those correctly built bows. You are probably putting in countless hours on a build that will be frustrating till the end, and the end might not be pretty. My take, build a self bow. Tiller it well and get it to hold together. If you are still compelled to sinew one then sinew that one or build another and sinew back it, but get the basics down first.
Crowned back is fine if you decide to pursue this.
I couldn't agree more.
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It feels like it would take away some of the authenticity of a self bow to buy a stave, though, but I'll consider that. :)
WAIT just a bloomin' moment! How about the trade routes that carried Knife River Flint from North Dakota all over the continent? Or the osage bow collected up near Canada in the Cutbank, MT? There was a trade in bow staves and osage saplings in the Southeast out of the Red River area of Texas. There is a long and respectable history of trading, swapping, and buying/selling of archery materials. Think of it as being really traditional!
There is a constant back-and-forth amongst us primitive archer types, argueing over whether some technique or other is too modern. Some guys (like me) don't use power tools...yeah, right! I use a quarter sheet random orbital sander, all the while looking down on anyone that has a band saw! Celebrate your hypocrisy! How many of us tear off our modern clothes, put on skins and woven bark before we pick up our stone tools and head into the forests? Or do we crank the i-tunes on the surround sound in the shop, flip switches for flourescent lights, and pick up imported hand forged steel tools?
For now, just make your first bow, post pics, and have fun!
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It feels like it would take away some of the authenticity of a self bow to buy a stave, though, but I'll consider that. :)
WAIT just a bloomin' moment! How about the trade routes that carried Knife River Flint from North Dakota all over the continent? Or the osage bow collected up near Canada in the Cutbank, MT? There was a trade in bow staves and osage saplings in the Southeast out of the Red River area of Texas. There is a long and respectable history of trading, swapping, and buying/selling of archery materials. Think of it as being really traditional!
There is a constant back-and-forth amongst us primitive archer types, argueing over whether some technique or other is too modern. Some guys (like me) don't use power tools...yeah, right! I use a quarter sheet random orbital sander, all the while looking down on anyone that has a band saw! Celebrate your hypocrisy! How many of us tear off our modern clothes, put on skins and woven bark before we pick up our stone tools and head into the forests? Or do we crank the i-tunes on the surround sound in the shop, flip switches for flourescent lights, and pick up imported hand forged steel tools?
For now, just make your first bow, post pics, and have fun!
That wasn't meant in a primitive-only way, but a selfmade-only way.
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You need to debark and take the sap wood off Mullberry,then chase a ring like Osage,Yes you need to be careful with the back even if using sinew,not as critical and a selfbow but still good insurance to keep it clean and in one ring,as for 52 inch ,ya that's short [at least for me] but a bend in the handle should get a 24 or 25 inch draw if all goes well. I use the rule double the draw and add what ever ant bending[handle and fads] on most of mine. I take the safe rout over the little more iffy rout. :o Did you think about splicing 2 together,you can get all the length you need that way.What is your draw by the way ? Well said JW couldn't agree more. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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Yes using sinew in a way that actually helps performance isn't an easy thing to do :) trust me i've found out the hard way!
I would trade for a stave around 68 inches or so and then go from there. As already said go for hickory if possible.
Save your mulberry for later.
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JW, you've got surround sound in your shop?! Lucky!
Put in a high speed internet connection and a flat screen and you'd never have to leave!
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You need to debark and take the sap wood off Mullberry,then chase a ring like Osage,Yes you need to be careful with the back even if using sinew,not as critical and a selfbow but still good insurance to keep it clean and in one ring,as for 52 inch ,ya that's short [at least for me] but a bend in the handle should get a 24 or 25 inch draw if all goes well. I use the rule double the draw and add what ever ant bending[handle and fads] on most of mine. I take the safe rout over the little more iffy rout. :o Did you think about splicing 2 together,you can get all the length you need that way.What is your draw by the way ? Well said JW couldn't agree more. ;) :) :)
Pappy
I've made 7 mulberry bows all sapwood back just took the bark off and made it the back works completely fine no need to take the sapwood off
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Maybe consider a board?cheap,easy to find and great for beginners
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I don't know what my draw is, I just know my upper body is quite long. I'm pretty new to archery in general. So, I'm going into this fairly blind. But not completely, thanks to the internet! I need to finish making a draw knife (sharpened steel file with rebar handles welded on) and I'll get this first attempt going. And with a branch this size, the heartwood is way to small, so Ill be going sapwood. Thanks for all the help!
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Post some pictures of what you got.
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What Bushboy said. Even Blackhawk made the switch!! ::)
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I don't know what my draw is, I just know my upper body is quite long. I'm pretty new to archery in general. So, I'm going into this fairly blind. But not completely, thanks to the internet! I need to finish making a draw knife (sharpened steel file with rebar handles welded on) and I'll get this first attempt going. And with a branch this size, the heartwood is way to small, so Ill be going sapwood. Thanks for all the help!
You can go to your local archery shop and they will most likely have a bow you can measure your drawlength on. Its quick and easy. I understand your 'made from scratch on your own' mentality. I'm doing the same right now. My first attempt blew up. Just take you time and don't have any expectations.