Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: toomanyknots on July 11, 2013, 10:40:19 am
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Someone in a thread said you can do this, but I never caught actually how you do it? Anybody do this? I always just redo all the burrs at once when mine gets dull, which seems to happen pretty fast... Do you just run a wet stone on the bottom of the burr, or the top? Or a file?
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I re-sharpen my scrapers with a tool that holds a file at a 90 degree angle, and then I re-do the burr, usually at 15 degrees.
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I think most of the folks that don't reburr are sanding the scraper on a belt sander the heat gives you a bit of a burr without all the extra work !
The belt travels the length of the scraper at 90 degrees to the face .
The heat rolls material of the sides causing the burrs !
Not as nice a burr, but fast !
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I do it on a belt sander,hold the edge flat for just a second the flip it around do the same.Takes 30 seconds and does a nice job,may not last as long,not sure
cause that is the only way I have ever done it, but it's quick. Be back to scrapping in less than A minute. ;) :)
Pappy
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I've never "done a burr" right.
Use the file / wet stone to square it. Use the side of a good screwdriver to mash a bur on . Touch it up periodicaly withthe screwdriver. No jigs or pricise measurements. Works fine for me.
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I've never "done a burr" right.
Use the file / wet stone to square it. Use the side of a good screwdriver to mash a bur on . Touch it up periodicaly withthe screwdriver. No jigs or pricise measurements. Works fine for me.
This is pretty much how I do it too. Square it up and straighten the edge with a metal file held in a vise. Then use a screwdriver or shank of a lathe chisel to roll a burr.
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If you had a good burr once, but due to use it is now dull, you can refresh the edge a couple of times (depending on how hard the use it has seen) by just re burnishing the edge - - ie. just roll a new burr without refiling or re-stoning. You can do this a few times, usually, before it gets so bad that you have to refile and restone - - or use the belt sander, etc. Once done, you can feel the burr with your fingernail, to see if you have enough and if it is smooth (no nicks).
Russ
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I think I was the one who mentioned it, and that's what I meant... just reestablish the burr with the burnisher.... without going all the way back to the file and stone. You can usually, not always, take this shortcut a time or two before you have to completely remove the burr and square everything up.
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Sweet, thanks guys. Did not know half of this, ;D.
Edit: Actually, what I meant was any of this, haha.
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I have had good results by simply putting a file in a vice and then running the scraper along it a few times. Then turn it around and run it through the other direction a few times so that I don't get a tapered edge. Ten seconds and its back to peeling shavings right off. It might not give the same quality edge as going through the whole burnishing and burring thing, but it works quite well in my opinion, and its just so darn easy and quick.
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A screwdriver shaft will put a nice enough burr on a scraper. Takes about 3-4 strokes per edges and its there to feel. I touch mine up on a bastard with about 15-25 strokes, then the screwdriver deal. Takes about 30 seconds total and seems to hold for a bit.
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What kind of metal are you guys using for scrapers? ??? I have been using mine for 3+ years and haven't had to touch it up. It is from a circular saw blade.
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I do it on a belt sander,hold the edge flat for just a second the flip it around do the same.Takes 30 seconds and does a nice job,may not last as long,not sure
cause that is the only way I have ever done it, but it's quick. Be back to scrapping in less than A minute. ;) :)
Pappy
I do it on a 120 grit dry grindstone going 3,000 RPM- it gives a smooth bur by heating the material. Works on the scrapers i make from old chrome-nickel steel saw blades. Otherwise they cannot be sharpened.
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What kind of metal are you guys using for scrapers? ??? I have been using mine for 3+ years and haven't had to touch it up. It is from a circular saw blade.
All my scrapers are made from my old miter saw and skil saw blades and I never do any touching up to them. I cut em out with a grinder and it leaves a bur that lasts a long time.
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a belt sander will give you a ruff cut the sharping stone is the better way
I bought one of those scrapers 1/8" x 1" x 8" new some body took a hand grinder to it
I put it on my surface grinder and squared it up, cuts like a champ.
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I have been scraping quarter sawed Osage , a cabinet scraper last about 25 scrapes done
I ordered a piece of pre hardened tool steel 1' x 1/2" x 18" cut it in half, and now i realy have 2 nice scraper
MSC.com Industrial tools go to raw materials/tool steel and find pre hardened
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Osage Mark - if your scraper is blunting that quickly then you need to buy a better one! Look for a Rockwell hardness of at least hrc 50.
With scrapers as with just about any tools there is a right way and a wrong way. The right way is described in Dean Torges book 'Hunting the Osage Bow', I strongly recommend any bow maker to buy that book....it's worth it just for the section on sharpening cabinet scrapers. Written by a true craftsman, who pours out all his techniques.
If you run a scraper on a belt sander the surface may LOOK smooth to you but it isn't, it's full of scratches. These scratches stop you forming a good, strong burr. Sure you can do it this way but the edge you raise will be weak, unconsolidated and you will have to keep re-establishing it.
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I just run a file over mine a few times, like slackbunny said. Shavings come out in nice curls, and I get a smooth finish.
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??? guess I been doing it wrong for 25 years,thanks guys for setting me straight and sorry for any bad advice I have given in the past,disregard it. ;) By the way I was taught by Gary Davis, 25 years ago,guess he ant a true craftsman,since he don't get on the net i will let him know he has been doing and teaching it wrong for years. :o
Pappy
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Pappy
To bad you won't be able to make a bow till you learn how to properly sharpen a scraper !!! >:D :laugh: :laugh:
Different types of steel respond better to different ways of sharpening !
But in the end there is still more than one way to skin a cat !! >:D
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Thats all I am saying Guy,you will never say their is only one way to anything in making selfbows. and offendes me jusy a bit when someone else does,sorry for the rant,headed to the cabin to catch my breath. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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Have a good one Mark!
I am headed to the OSTA shoot , good memories of Sonny this weekend for sure !
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Thats all I am saying Guy,you will never say their is only one way to anything in making selfbows. and offendes me jusy a bit when someone else does,sorry for the rant,headed to the cabin to catch my breath. ;) :) :)
Pappy
I have one of your piece o' junk "bows" Pappy. Its obvious you don't know how to sharpen a scraper, all my friends can see it to.
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If you run a scraper on a belt sander the surface may LOOK smooth to you but it isn't, it's full of scratches. These scratches stop you forming a good, strong burr. Sure you can do it this way but the edge you raise will be weak, unconsolidated and you will have to keep re-establishing it.
Sure, but if it only takes a few seconds to reestablish that edge then you really aren't much further ahead to to do it differently. And its such a simple technique, almost foolproof really. I do not enjoy sharpening tools. I can never seem to get a touch for it, and spending much time attempting it frustrates me. So I'm all about quick and easy techniques like this even if the results aren't necessarily perfect.
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I want a perfectly smooth cutting edge. I know right away if my cabinet scraper's edge gets a single nick in it by the surface it leaves in its wake. I can't imagine I'd be happy with an edge ground by a belt sander, but I like to keep an open mind and my scrapers are almost due for a sharpening, so maybei'll give it a try.
Sharpening a scraper by squaring, smoothing, and rolling the edge takes 5-10 minutes and can last for a long time if you don't abuse it by allowing it to contact other metal tools and surfaces, or use it to scrape sandpaper grit out of a bow. 5-10 minutes isn't too much effort for me.
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I want a perfectly smooth cutting edge. I know right away if my cabinet scraper's edge gets a single nick in it by the surface it leaves in its wake. I can't imagine I'd be happy with an edge ground by a belt sander, but I like to keep an open mind and my scrapers are almost due for a sharpening, so maybei'll give it a try.
Sharpening a scraper by squaring, smoothing, and rolling the edge takes 5-10 minutes and can last for a long time if you don't abuse it by allowing it to contact other metal tools and surfaces, or use it to scrape sandpaper grit out of a bow. 5-10 minutes isn't too much effort for me.
I do most of my tillering with my scraper, and it don't seem to last that long at all. I get 2 bows out of one sharpening, on all four sides, and that is about the most. A lot of time I will only get one bow. I don't know if it is because I am using a cheap scraper from woodcraft or what. I know I got a cheap burnisher from woodcraft, it was on sale, and the thing scratches pretty easy. I was going to take it back but I never did. I would like to get a better burnisher while I am at it...
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i'm with Pearl,i had one of you junk bows and gave it back.Pappy,i think your scraper was the problem.get that fixed and i might keep the next one lol.
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Sorry for giving my opinion if it offended anyone. It certainly wasn't my intention.
I struggled for ages to get a good, long lasting edge on cabinet scrapers. I seem to have tried all the different methods over the years and through my own experience and experimentation I do think that there really is only one way to get a very strong burr on a scraper. It comes down to laying good foundations on which to proceed to the next step. It's important to understand why you are doing each step and then it all makes perfect sense.
I would never profess to know everything and am always happy and willing to learn a better way of doing things.
There certainly are quicker ways to sharpen cabinet scrapers BUT the edge won't last as long, i'm NOT saying it won't work to take shavings off wood. If you look at the edges of two scrapers one prepared by using a belt sander and one by the 'traditional' method under a microscope you can very readily see the difference and yes before you ask I have done this as my mrs runs a microbiology lab.
There is nothing I like more than a debate and try to never just spout stuff unless I have personal experience in what i'm talking about. :)
Toomanyknots - the quality basically just comes down to the rockwell hardness rating, look for hrc 50 minimum.
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Toomanyknots - the quality basically just comes down to the rockwell hardness rating, look for hrc 50 minimum.
Will do, :).
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What was the original question ?
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I believe it was how to sharpen a scraper without re-doing the bur. As in, quick way to sharpen scraper(belt sander or bench grinder;))
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Oh OK
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I resquare with a file then use a screwdriver shank to roll a bur. I use half a pair of Fiskars scissors as my scraper, I do have a Mystic scraper too and it doesn't peal off the wood like the scissors but it does make very fine curls for finishing up with a very smooth finish. If I had a real scraper I would probably not be using the scissors but they work for now and I'm too cheap to get a real one, maybe when the scissors wear out.
Grady.
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If your scraper just a peice of metel with a burr added. Exspecially with a belt sander it's not a tempered burr. Useing a belt sander even if your metal is tempered the heat from the sander takes the temper out of it. Exspecially if you burr gets cherry red.
If your scraper is already tempered use a file of stone to add the burr. A file of stone won't heat the metal up so the temper stays.
YOU CAN TAKE A PEICE OF METAL THATS HARDEN (CARBON ADDED) you can not temper unharden steel (no carbon)YOU CAN HAD THE BURR THEN TEMPER IN YOUR KITCHEN OVEN. MOST METALS 400% FOR A HOUR. LET AIR COOL TO WHERE YOUR CAN PICK IT UP. PUT IT BACK IN 400% FOR ANOTHER HOUR. YOU HAVE A TEMPERED BURR THAT WILL LAST FOR YEARS AND MANY BOWS.
If you don't care just keep re adding the burr with just a belt sander. It last a little while. then just redo it when it gets dull.
This won't last a 50th time of a tempered burr.
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Must admit, that I've used the cabinet scraper a lot over the past few years, and have always put the burr back on in the correct manner.. Yes, it may take a little longer, but its not like it takes an eternity.
These tools are what makes our craft special....The time and care we take to make sure everything is set up just fine
Just my 20 pence worth