Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: KShip85 on July 01, 2013, 06:04:17 pm
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Well, I was hoping this one would make it as it is option D or E for my trade bow. Honestly I have lost count at this point. Was curious as to the diagnosis for failure. My guess was perhaps the walnut core had dry rotted. This broke when barely flexing on the floor in the middle of the handle without any warning. It was riftsawn hickory/black walnut/ERC with sycamore to reinforce the levers. I do not have time for any more failures...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/kshipley85/null_zpsd10ccf7d.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/kshipley85/null_zps4bc33e50.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/kshipley85/null_zps416f6844.jpg)
At this point if my recipient was closer I'd give them my entire stash of Osage and locust that is seasoning in the barn. All I seem to be doing anymore is ruining wood.
Kip
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Kip, I'd say it was a backing failure the way the backing broke across the grain. I've only seen one hickory backing break and it had rot in it. If you have staves make a stave selfbow.
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dont worry im in the same boat with this trade but i dont have a big stash of seasoned wood. :-\. im gona be staveless at the end of this lol.
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kip if I was you i'd try something like a eastern woodland or a nice pyramid, ya cant really beat an eastern woodland bendy bow
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How thick was the handle? Doesn't look there is enough meat there. Jawge
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Pat, yeah I thought about that. The strip came from a board I bought and I was wondering if perhaps it was actually Pecan as well. I thought it was strange that it broke right at the handle where it was thickest and as far as I could tell not yet bending.
Danny, I'm glad to hear I'm not alone but sorry that you've got the same problem. My wood stash is quickly dwindling and the oasge and locust were just cut this winter so they are a no go for the moment. I've got a piece of hickory hopefully in the works and my last resort is a piece of osage I traded for that has been seasoning for awhile. Might be getting to that sooner rather than later.
Bubby, I do like that design. I've been trying to go for the shorter bow since it is either that or a take down to keep shipping costs manageable. Might have to move to a take down here if I can't get a shorty to hold together. Think I'll take Pat's advice and go back to stave work for awhile. Just hope I've got the time to get it done before the shipping date.
Kip
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Bummer. I went through something similar with my trade bow so I know how you feel. Yea, go for a stave and make something simple and slightly overbuilt.
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I know the feeling. I've been trying to get a bow made for a friend of mine for a long time, and after over six months of failed attempts I've just recently finished one for him.
Try changing it up, or going back to basics. But above all, keep at it. The frustration sucks but it sure feels good when you finally work one out. Good luck!
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I have broken 3 bows trying to make one for my friend's little bro.
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How thick is it in the handle area where it broke? Can you take a side view picture of the handle and dip area?
I think I would have put a piece of osage on the belly side of the handle, from dip to dip, to strengthen that area and keep it from bending.
Actually, I would have either used walnut OR red cedar for the center lam, and then osage for the belly lam, THEN built the handle up further with osage that extended from dip to dip. At the center of the handle, I like it to be 1 1/2" thick.
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I can't really tell from the photo's but it looks like the limbs were pretty thick, when you started floor tillering, and the handle became the weak link. Did you give it a one hell of a bend?
Hamish.
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At this point I would consider taking one of your osage staves and making a selfbow. An osage selfbow is a pretty safe bet.
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I would also go with an Osage selfbow to get the trade out of the way,not sure on the break [here comes the can of worms] ;) :) :) 3 of the 4 woods you mentioned in that bow,will make a bow for sure, but are questionable at best. :)
If I was wanting to get a bow made for a friend or the trade bow they wouldn't have been my pick. :)
Pappy
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The grain on the hickory looks ok -it wouldn't matter if it was pecan.
The backing broke because you don't have enough handle thickness or the other way of looking at it is that your limbs were way too stiff. Either way your handle was the weak link and you used far too much force when floor tillering. To get a feel for the pressure needed when floor tillering take a 50lb finished bow and bend it as though floor tillering....see how little force is needed to make it bend significantly!
You can get a green locust stave to a bow in a couple of weeks.
1st - Get close to your intended ring for the back
2nd - Make it parallel width all the way from tip to tip (around 2 inches wide).
3rd - Reduce limb thickness to around 3/4 inch thick near the fade and 1/2 inch at the tips (obviously leaving the handle thicker if you intend to make a rigid handled design).
4 th - Start floor tillering until you get some sort of a bend.
5 - Leave for a week or so inside (ends and back sealed).
6 - Reduce the limb width to the profile you want and continue tillering until either you get a hint of set or you notice that the shavings you are taking off aren't 'crisp' anymore.
7 - Leave it in a warm place with good airflow for a few days. All the while you should be weighing the stave daily to keep an eye on the weight (water) loss. Once it hasn't lost any weight for a few days you are good to carry on tillering.
8 - Post some pictures and get some tillering advice!
Some people will tell you that wood should be seasoned for years and whilst this is certainly the safest way to dry wood it is by no means the only way. I've made many fast ,durable bows from quick dried wood of many different species including black locust.
Good luck.
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I would also go with an Osage selfbow to get the trade out of the way,not sure on the break [here comes the can of worms] ;) :) :) 3 of the 4 woods you mentioned in that bow,will make a bow for sure, but are questionable at best. :)
If I was wanting to get a bow made for a friend or the trade bow they wouldn't have been my pick. :)
Pappy
Here's my can o worms to that ;)
That's funny...I've had more osage break on me than erc....in fact(,cross me fingys)I've never had a erc bow break on me yet,n have made several and all are still in one piece yet.... :laugh: ...jus messin with ya ole man ;) :laugh:
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Dang, that sux. Sorry to see that beautiful bow in 2 pieces. I have to agree with George though...possibly the handle wasn't thick enough. That's the only thing I can think of that would cause the bow to break like that. Even though it's thicker, just a little bend in an area that's narrowed like that could have caused the break. I'm no expert on laminated bows though, so take what I say with a grain....actually with a pile of salt!
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Yes, it sucks to see that bow broken. It would of been sweet! I think it is hard to tell why it broke without a tiller photo. It might of been bending too much in the handle. But it might of been rotted hickory, have you had more bows break with this hickory you got? I got some bad hickory, it was worthless as a backing. Most of been dry rotted or something. But normally with hickory it should be dang good at staying together, even with less than straight grain, and your grain is just fine. I always suspect erc when I hear a bow broke that has had anything to do with erc, ;D. All the erc bows, and one bow with a erc core, exploded on me. I thought people were exaggerating about erc blowing up, but it definitely has done that with me. If a pine selfbow made from a 2x4 blew up, and it had erc overlays, I would blame the erc. lol ( Ok I will stop blaspheming erc before someone brings up marc st.louis's erc warbow, :) ). I would go with the walnut on the belly next time too, erc seems pretty easy to crush the belly fibers of, especially backed with hickory.
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No wood is a sure bet. I've broken osage and hickory and those 2 are in the least danger of breaking. Jawge
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I have been told ERC is elastic in compression. IMO ERC isn't great in either tension or compression...
ERC is very elastic though.