Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: toomanyknots on June 27, 2013, 07:36:16 pm
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I have been messing around with these two currently, they are my sole backing materials at the moment. I trust my maple I got way more than my bamboo, but apparently bamboo is regarded as a much better backing than maple. I find the maple much more predictable though. WAY cheaper too, and a lot less work. :) When bend testing it, it seems pretty decent. Not like good hickory, but still good. The piece I got is denser and not very porous at all. I am wondering about going over 100# or so with either in an elb design. I just had a shorter r/d bbi break on me, the bamboo splintered on each limb. I think it might of been too heavy and deep with too weak/thin a backing, and too reflexed, etc, or I might of also sanded too much off the bamboo. I usually sand the bamboo after scrapping the rind because I always put a bunch of nicks on the bamboo with my scrapper no matter how careful I am it seems (very small but visible in the right reflective light). After the last one I have taken absolute care to scrape just the minimum to take the rind off, and only a couple swipes with a low grit sandpaper, like 400 or up. Anyway, I am about to make some bows around 100# and up, and I am wondering how each of these woods are gonna respond? Is maple known to be a good warbow backing?
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this topic has been discussed many times, and Im good w/that because in my humble opinion bamboo is amazing. that being said it is a lot of work. one fact and Ill leave the rest to your study. Bamboo in tension is as strong as mild steal!!!!
chuck
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this topic has been discussed many times, and Im good w/that because in my humble opinion bamboo is amazing. that being said it is a lot of work. one fact and Ill leave the rest to your study. Bamboo in tension is as strong as mild steal!!!!
chuck
At the same time though, if you search for "bamboo bow splinter lift" or google it, you get tons of hits and examples of bamboo failing. I have read many times that bamboo is prone to lifting splinters. Not so much hickory/maple/ash, or at least not near as often?
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Not all bamboos are equal. Moso is fairly average(can pop splinters), when compared to madake, Japanese timber bamboo, and Tonkin cane is even stronger(though only suitable for narrow bows because of small diameter).
Maple does work but better with wider bows rather than narrow longbows. I have had some go on me with englsh longbow designs(50-60lbs range). Grain has to be pretty perfect. I'm sure its possible to do what you want but I would personally use hickory, and flawless pieces for 100lbs +. Too much work and materials to risk breaking, to save a little money.
Hamish
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Not all bamboos are equal. Moso is fairly average(can pop splinters), when compared to madake, Japanese timber bamboo, and Tonkin cane is even stronger(though only suitable for narrow bows because of small diameter).
Maple does work but better with wider bows rather than narrow longbows. I have had some go on me with englsh longbow designs(50-60lbs range). Grain has to be pretty perfect. I'm sure its possible to do what you want but I would personally use hickory, and flawless pieces for 100lbs +. Too much work and materials to risk breaking, to save a little money.
Hamish
I would honestly use hickory too but I can't find any locally.
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Can you find white oak?
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Can you find white oak?
yeah white oak is almost unbreakable, I know in tests it broke after hickory
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Can you find white oak?
yeah white oak is almost unbreakable, I know in tests it broke after hickory
I know, I have read that in tbb as well as heard that a bunch of times, but again the piece of white oak I got right now is not near as good as the maple I got in tension, despite it's supposed unbreakableness. In fact it's not even that good, and I would not even think about using it in a warbow over maple or bamboo. It might be simply this piece I got that is not that good I guess. I haven't made a bow with it yet after doing some simple bend tests with some backings ripped from it, they broke pretty easily. And the grain is perfectly straight tight grain quarter sawn. I might try some lighter bows from it sometime. I'm starting to get really picky when looking for wood for backings, just because it is nice straight grain doesn't mean it is guaranteed to work I have found. I like to look for wood that is dense and as non-porous as possible, when looking for backing wood anymore.
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I've used moso many times and never had a single problem. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for 100lb+ longbows. You don't have to be uber careful when scraping the rind off but a super sharp scraper helps a lot. Files are good to get most of it off then switch to a scraper then sandpaper to polish it.
Maple is the same as any other backing wood get flawlessly straight grain and it should be ok as long as the wood isn't damaged. Remember that with 1/4 sawn wood even the slightest deviation from straight lines indicates heavily violated grain. A lot of people seem to think oh it's 1/4 sawn it'll be cool......well it's not quite as simple as that! I actually prefer flat sawn as it's so much easier to evaluate the straightness of the grain.
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Well, bamboo is in theory stronger in tension than maple or hickory. In practice, I think hickory is stronger than either.
If you want results, test it.
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I've broke more hickory backed bows than maple and no white oak backed have broke yet, just been having a hard time getting good white oak at my hardwoods guy lately
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I've broke more hickory backed bows than maple and no white oak backed have broke yet, just been having a hard time getting good white oak at my hardwoods guy lately
Around here all the lumber places I have been too have some form of quartersawn white oak with perfect straight grain. This place in madiera or something like that had a piece about 20 feet long or so of perfect straight grain quartersawn white oak. It seems like white oak tends to be either lighter colored, like light tan-ish white-ish or so, either than or it is grey-ish brown. The piece I picked up was grey-ish brown. Most the pieces I see are brown. Would I be wrong in thinking the lighter colored might be closer to the sapwood, or is it probably just the variance of tree to tree? Either way next time I pick up white oak I will try to find a lighter colored piece.
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I've broke more hickory backed bows than maple and no white oak backed have broke yet, just been having a hard time getting good white oak at my hardwoods guy lately
Around here all the lumber places I have been too have some form of quartersawn white oak with perfect straight grain. This place in madiera or something like that had a piece about 20 feet long or so of perfect straight grain quartersawn white oak. It seems like white oak tends to be either lighter colored, like light tan-ish white-ish or so, either than or it is grey-ish brown. The piece I picked up was grey-ish brown. Most the pieces I see are brown. Would I be wrong in thinking the lighter colored might be closer to the sapwood, or is it probably just the variance of tree to tree? Either way next time I pick up white oak I will try to find a lighter colored piece.
If it's grey, it's been stored outside long enough to be "weathered". This is code for exposed to wind, rain, and wood munching fungus. Cellulose muncher or lignin muncher, any wood fungus is going to weaken your wood.
Of course, I may be picturing a different "grey" in my head than the grey you see. Pics please?
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Heres a picture, the wood next to it is maple. It probably would work for lighter bows maybe, I just haven't used it yet, i'll get around to gluing one up sometime.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/DSCN2167.jpg) (http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/toomany7/media/DSCN2167.jpg.html)
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Umm......it doesn't look like any white oak i've seen.
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Umm......it doesn't look like any white oak i've seen.
Thats how most of the white oak around here looks, like a greyish brown. I think I actually bought this at my local woodcrafters.
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TMK, thats red oak or pin oak. Not white oak.
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TMK, thats red oak or pin oak. Not white oak.
It's definitely white oak. You can tell by the end grain more than anything, red oak is more porous. Here is some info on red oak verses white oak:
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/distinguishing-red-oak-from-white-oak/
I find it funny that one of the tips to tell the difference is "white oak is typically more expensive", ;D.
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that's not red oak, I've had some of the darker stuff and it worked fine, I wonder if yours was standing dead when cut, i'll see if I have any left if I do i'll take a pic
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it looks awfully like red oak I have. But I definitely believe you over my own ID...
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that's not red oak, I've had some of the darker stuff and it worked fine, I wonder if yours was standing dead when cut, i'll see if I have any left if I do i'll take a pic
I don't know if it is that bad, but bend tests weren't great. I will tell you though I did buy some hickory which had to of had something like that going on, something was real wrong with those pieces of hickory I got. The backings I ripped from it just crumbed apart, I didn't even think to bend test it before gluing up like 4 bows as I figured it was straight grain 1/4 sawn hickory, and that would of been good enough by itself! lol When bending the backings even lightly, it sounded like you were stomping on a box of those poppers they sell around 4th of july. I broke 3 bows, 1 hick ph hick trilam, 1 HBI, and 1 hick backed hard maple. The fourth one I said no way and pried the backing off to save the (hickory) belly.
it looks awfully like red oak I have. But I definitely believe you over my own ID...
Heck, only reason I know is from folks on here and sites like the one I linked, I definitely ain't no expert. ;D In fact, I ain't no expert on anything really, ;).