Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Fred Arnold on June 25, 2013, 03:25:52 pm
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I recently purchased and have been quite pleased with the Mystic Scraper. Unlike other scrapers that I've used in the past the edges along the length of this scraper are not ground (filed) flat like the other models.
I'm getting ready to reestablished the edge and wondered whether anyone else has had experience with the Mystic and how to proceed with the task.
Should I try to follow the bevel that was established at the factory or put it in a vice and flatten the edge before proceeding to turn a burr?
I called 3 Rivers but am not sure the tech understood exactly what I was referring to.
I would appreciate any input from you that have had experience with this same scraper.
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I had "okay" luck squaring up the edge and burring it over. With that being said I gave it away and only use a few homemade scrapers now. I never did get the curls coming off like they should.
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What Pearl said.
I didn't have much luck with it. Woulda been great though if it'd worked. I like a stiff scraper that deosn't bend so much and get so dang hot like the cabinet scrapers do. I friend of mine let me borrow a homemade one made from a walmart knife...I will be making me one soon. I like the handle on it and it really pulls of the curls good.
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Mine just sets. I use my home made one mostly.
Be interest in seeing the walmart knife scraper.
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I have a scraper I made out of a circular saw blade... Its great. Just slap it on the fine grinding wheel to resharpen ;)
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PD, I'm wondering if the stainless is too hard a metal to get a good burr turned over trying to use a softer metal burnishing tool. When it arrived new it worked fantastic but now after some use I just can't seem to turn that edge over that is needed for shaving.
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Mine are home made stainless steel. Getting a good burr is tricky but doable, and longer lasting than softer metal. Never used a Mystic.
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Bur? ??
I mean a plain flat 90 degree angle, with a nice sharp corner... Dunno what a fancy scraper is.
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Squirrelslinger, since you already posted a comment before I figured you had a lot of experience with scrapers. The burr is the actual cutting edge rolled over in order to take off fine shavings.
SLIMBOB, any tricks to help with that rollover would be appreciated. Does it just take longer strokes with more pressure and more passes and what degree of angle do you try to apply?
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More passes and flat with no angle. Took me a while to figure it out. Takes a while on mine to get a good burr but it keeps it for a good while as a payoff. Again, mine are home made.
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The Mystik scraper isn't sharpened like a conventional scraper. With most other scrapers you square everything up with a file, then stone, then smooth and roll the edge into a burr with a burnisher.... not so with the stainless Mystik.
Bernie Swank from Mystik Longbows showed me how to sharpen his scraper years ago. Here's how.
Sharpening the Mystik scraper is done entirely with a smooth cut metal file.
Often you can sharpen it without going back to square one and completely removing the old burr first.... but if it doesn't work to your satisfaction, you may need to completely remove any old burr and perfectly square up the edges.... again, done entirely with the smooth cut file. But unless it's really messed up you should be able to just push a new edge.
Hold the scraper in a padded bench vice with about a third of it exposed above the jaws of the vice, and with a smooth cut mill file held perpendicular to its side(file level with the floor) begin running it, skewed to about a 45 degree angle, along the scraper's edge. As you work, gradually tilt the file a few degrees away from perpendicular, leaning it down on the side you wish to create the burr on, similar to how you roll the edge on a cabinet scraper with a burnisher. Of course, you lift the file after each forward stroke, not run it back and forth like a burnisher.
You should be able to accomplish your task in 12-20 strokes or so. The file will push a cutting edge off the edge of the scraper just like a burnisher does, but a burnisher won't work for squat on this stainless... go figure :). That's about it. It's easy and fast. The longer you do it and the more you lean the file, the greater the burr. Do the same thing to all four corners. Play around with how far you lean the file over, and how much you skew the file. You may want to run the file closer to parallel with the scraper, or more perpendicular to it.
If you try to reconstitute an old burr but it won't cut wood, file it off, square up the scraper's edges, and start over.
The only thing I don't like about the Mystik scraper is that the burr created by the file can sometimes be slightly jagged, which can leave tiny grooves in the wood. To help eliminate it, skew the file at a greater angle, laying it more parallel to the scraper. Also, since the teeth on the file are angled, it will cut slightly different depending on whether its pushed or pulled... usually leaving a smoother burr on the scraper one way than the other. Experiment til you find what works best. Once you get on to it, it really is easy though, fast, and it works. Good luck. Let us know how it works for you.
If this description is unclear, I can post pictures. Let me know. Good luck.
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Squirrelslinger, since you already posted a comment before I figured you had a lot of experience with scrapers. The burr is the actual cutting edge rolled over in order to take off fine shavings.
SLIMBOB, any tricks to help with that rollover would be appreciated. Does it just take longer strokes with more pressure and more passes and what degree of angle do you try to apply?
well, I have used and sharpened my G-pa's... without knowing what it was.
I thought harder metals make a better tool.... I don't have an actual scaper, just the saw blade. but it takes shavings just fine. I am guessing this is cause of my grinder- it makes a little hook-bur on the bottom edge of the piece being ground. will take a legit shaving- same as my hand plane set on fine.
I haven't tried burnishing the edge. Might work. But that steel is dang hard.
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Often you can sharpen it without going back to square one and completely removing the old burr first....
I wanna know how to do this on any scraper? Just try to sharpen the edge of the burr? Like with a file or wet stone?
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The Mystik scraper isn't sharpened like a conventional scraper. With most other scrapers you square everything up with a file, then stone, then smooth and roll the edge into a burr with a burnisher.... not so with the stainless Mystik.
Bernie Swank from Mystik Longbows showed me how to sharpen his scraper years ago. Here's how.
Sharpening the Mystik scraper is done entirely with a smooth cut metal file.
Often you can sharpen it without going back to square one and completely removing the old burr first.... but if it doesn't work to your satisfaction, you may need to completely remove any old burr and perfectly square up the edges.... again, done entirely with the smooth cut file. But unless it's really messed up you should be able to just push a new edge.
Hold the scraper in a padded bench vice with about a third of it exposed above the jaws of the vice, and with a smooth cut mill file held perpendicular to its side(file level with the floor) begin running it, skewed to about a 45 degree angle, along the scraper's edge. As you work, gradually tilt the file a few degrees away from perpendicular, leaning it down on the side you wish to create the burr on, similar to how you roll the edge on a cabinet scraper with a burnisher. Of course, you lift the file after each forward stroke, not run it back and forth like a burnisher.
You should be able to accomplish your task in 12-20 strokes or so. The file will push a cutting edge off the edge of the scraper just like a burnisher does, but a burnisher won't work for squat on this stainless... go figure :). That's about it. It's easy and fast. The longer you do it and the more you lean the file, the greater the burr. Do the same thing to all four corners. Play around with how far you lean the file over, and how much you skew the file. You may want to run the file closer to parallel with the scraper, or more perpendicular to it.
If you try to reconstitute an old burr but it won't cut wood, file it off, square up the scraper's edges, and start over.
The only thing I don't like about the Mystik scraper is that the burr created by the file can sometimes be slightly jagged, which can leave tiny grooves in the wood. To help eliminate it, skew the file at a greater angle, laying it more parallel to the scraper. Also, since the teeth on the file are angled, it will cut slightly different depending on whether its pushed or pulled... usually leaving a smoother burr on the scraper one way than the other. Experiment til you find what works best. Once you get on to it, it really is easy though, fast, and it works. Good luck. Let us know how it works for you.
If this description is unclear, I can post pictures. Let me know. Good luck.
Cool thanks for the info!
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Dances, thanks for the reply. That was the kind of info I was looking for and I'll definitely give it a try and post the results. I don't really understand why it would be different than other scrapers but it looks like from previous posts that there has been some unsatisfied users and possibly the reason is a misunderstanding of how it is suppose to be sharpened ( Hard to imagine how the reviews give it a 5 star rating if no one seems to like it ). 3 Rivers wasn't much help and you would think that explicit instructions should be included with a tool costing that much more than similar products.
-
The Mystik scraper isn't sharpened like a conventional scraper. With most other scrapers you square everything up with a file, then stone, then smooth and roll the edge into a burr with a burnisher.... not so with the stainless Mystik.
Bernie Swank from Mystik Longbows showed me how to sharpen his scraper years ago. Here's how.
Sharpening the Mystik scraper is done entirely with a smooth cut metal file.
Often you can sharpen it without going back to square one and completely removing the old burr first.... but if it doesn't work to your satisfaction, you may need to completely remove any old burr and perfectly square up the edges.... again, done entirely with the smooth cut file. But unless it's really messed up you should be able to just push a new edge.
Hold the scraper in a padded bench vice with about a third of it exposed above the jaws of the vice, and with a smooth cut mill file held perpendicular to its side(file level with the floor) begin running it, skewed to about a 45 degree angle, along the scraper's edge. As you work, gradually tilt the file a few degrees away from perpendicular, leaning it down on the side you wish to create the burr on, similar to how you roll the edge on a cabinet scraper with a burnisher. Of course, you lift the file after each forward stroke, not run it back and forth like a burnisher.
You should be able to accomplish your task in 12-20 strokes or so. The file will push a cutting edge off the edge of the scraper just like a burnisher does, but a burnisher won't work for squat on this stainless... go figure :). That's about it. It's easy and fast. The longer you do it and the more you lean the file, the greater the burr. Do the same thing to all four corners. Play around with how far you lean the file over, and how much you skew the file. You may want to run the file closer to parallel with the scraper, or more perpendicular to it.
If you try to reconstitute an old burr but it won't cut wood, file it off, square up the scraper's edges, and start over.
The only thing I don't like about the Mystik scraper is that the burr created by the file can sometimes be slightly jagged, which can leave tiny grooves in the wood. To help eliminate it, skew the file at a greater angle, laying it more parallel to the scraper. Also, since the teeth on the file are angled, it will cut slightly different depending on whether its pushed or pulled... usually leaving a smoother burr on the scraper one way than the other. Experiment til you find what works best. Once you get on to it, it really is easy though, fast, and it works. Good luck. Let us know how it works for you.
If this description is unclear, I can post pictures. Let me know. Good luck.
Well Well Well. All this time I've been sharpening it like my other scrapers.
10 mins with a file and I now have a sharp Mystic Scraper.
Thank you
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If get much off perpendicular, I ruin the burr on mine. I keep it pretty flat. Finish it with a stone. Mine takes more than 12 strokes. More than 20 strokes, but as has been described above, i"m not creating a new burr, just working off the existing burr.
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Slimbob, you're right, it doesn't take much of an angle usually.... and sometimes it takes more strokes to get it just right... all kind of depends on where we're starting from. Mine's due for a touch-up.
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Stainless is the work of the Devil... I wouldn't waste my urine on the stuff.
Good ol' carbon steel filed/ground/belt sanded dead square and burred over by dragging a big old screw driver shaft along it whilst leaning on it.
Del
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Del, got to say I was with you for most of my bow making life. Got a Green River knife that has been my scraper for more than a decade now. Closer to two decades. A buddy made me a few SS scrapers and asked me to try them. Reluctantly I did. They were amazing....when new and sharp. I found them to be almost impossible to resharpen though. Fella showed me how to sharpen and now they have sent the Green River into retirement. Sharper longer lasting edge reduces a lot of the chatter for me. Mine have rounded ends so I can really work hard to reach places on knotty staves well with them.
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Interesting ... If ever someone gives me one, I'll give it a go.
Must admit having the belt sander makes re-sharpening scrapers less of a pain.
Mind I've got a curved one shaped lke a big comma dunno how to sharpen that baby easilly especially on the inside curves?
Del
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Del, my other scrapers are carbon which in most cases I prefer. I also have the comma scraper and although it is hard to sharpen it gets used a lot when I'm cleaning up dips in the back of the stave.
All of my knives are carbon steel and they take and hold an edge very well. A couple of my old Cold Steel Carbon V blades are some of the best I've ever used. I'd love to have a scraper made out of that steel but not willing to turn my good knives into a scraper.