Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DLH on May 23, 2013, 11:17:58 pm
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I have a locust stave that was going to be fence post that I found in an old barn and they were practically free. It is 1.5 in wide and 66 in long I tapered the last 11 in to 1/2 in tips. I have most of the ring chased just have to clean up around some pin knots first I also want to narrow it to 1 3/8 in. Do you guys think 1 3/8 in. is a good starting point to hit 50# @28? Here is what it looks like.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/821A6DEC-A16D-47A9-A713-66E083862133-2788-00000168931DD5CF_zpsb901dbf5.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/821A6DEC-A16D-47A9-A713-66E083862133-2788-00000168931DD5CF_zpsb901dbf5.jpg.html)
Two of the pin knots concern me because they are on the very edge and one of them I didn't see until the last few rings (I'm guessing I over looked it) My question is this should I try to get the pin knots out when I narrow it to 1 3/8 in? One of them is where I start my taper to the tips. Here is the first one.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/6E523B8A-55F3-4579-B969-11932BDC92BA-2788-00000169A0B0850F_zps02daa799.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/6E523B8A-55F3-4579-B969-11932BDC92BA-2788-00000169A0B0850F_zps02daa799.jpg.html)
This is a side view of the same knot.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/641C51CA-5E3B-4B8B-8684-0DEB0713123C-2788-0000016A177352C5_zps560c6432.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/641C51CA-5E3B-4B8B-8684-0DEB0713123C-2788-0000016A177352C5_zps560c6432.jpg.html)
Here is the other knot this is the one I overlooked.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/DFD9F7FA-1256-4266-960E-72D26BE18B9A-2788-00000168D0E576D9_zps32a221f2.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/DFD9F7FA-1256-4266-960E-72D26BE18B9A-2788-00000168D0E576D9_zps32a221f2.jpg.html)
Whats the chances of it following the grain around knots like this when I narrow it?
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/40C09756-5276-4E3C-98AE-A2A2EDD3B00E-2788-000001692CF2029A_zps44f10fdd.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/40C09756-5276-4E3C-98AE-A2A2EDD3B00E-2788-000001692CF2029A_zps44f10fdd.jpg.html)
This may be put up and resumed at a later date because when I get my rasps back I want to work on a locust bow I have had going for a couple months to build my skill set this is just in the meantime. Any advice is more than welcome.
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Hey Daniel! Looks like a nice piece of wood there. Your width is definitely on the slim side but doable. If your worried about the knots, you can always back it with rawhide or sinew to insure it from issues. I think it is possible to finish this stave into an unbacked bow if that is what you're after. That last knot on the very edge looks like it could be removed and still have enough width. Just a few ideas. Take care and good luck Daniel.
Tracy
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Once you get the ring chased the knots should be ok but don't just rasp straight through them when you narrow and have half a knot on the edge of your limb that would be a for sure failure
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DLH, should be just fine. I like bringing the knots to the same ring as the rest of the stave. Leave the big knots a little wider and tiller them to knot bend as much as the rest of the limb. Pin knots should be the same ring too and leave a little wood if you can but that's not essential. Jawge
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I think it looks like you got some good rings there.You should be OK.You got the length going for ya too.
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The only reason I wanted to narrow it was to try and get the pin knots on the edge out but I may leave it at 1.5 in. Once I get it down to one ring around the pin knots I will report back. Also will the limbs be really thin at 1.5 in wide the reason I ask is all the locust d bows I found online are around 1.25in wide?
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1.5 inch wide should be fine
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This is where I'm at so far a couple of the knots worry me the one on the edge (8th) and the one that has been butchered (2nd picture). I still think I need to take some more of the ring off closer to most of the knots. There are 11 pin knots total and that worries me. I have chased a ring around a knot prior to this and it was bigger is there any difference in the way you handle a big knot vs a pin knot? How does it look so far any critique and advice is welcome. Also are my pictures too big what do most of you re size yours to?
Thanks,
Daniel
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/BE610315-CD19-4668-A31B-2969E72FF6FA-3412-000002C5CFA1DBCE_zpsf5d5e611.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/BE610315-CD19-4668-A31B-2969E72FF6FA-3412-000002C5CFA1DBCE_zpsf5d5e611.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/7ED859F1-CA30-4FD8-BC7D-6BAB39ADD90E-3412-000002C5C23E23E5_zps73f51fd1.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/7ED859F1-CA30-4FD8-BC7D-6BAB39ADD90E-3412-000002C5C23E23E5_zps73f51fd1.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/3CF386CF-E032-49A9-B484-B80867444DEF-3412-000002C5B485A96E_zps5f8c31a7.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/3CF386CF-E032-49A9-B484-B80867444DEF-3412-000002C5B485A96E_zps5f8c31a7.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/36BAC004-C2B4-4676-8077-DF054532F383-3412-000002C5A72754C3_zps1aa54474.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/36BAC004-C2B4-4676-8077-DF054532F383-3412-000002C5A72754C3_zps1aa54474.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/24B76C75-EED9-4E63-AE2F-9751ECD5E765-3412-000002C59A4D76D4_zpse8ceede3.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/24B76C75-EED9-4E63-AE2F-9751ECD5E765-3412-000002C59A4D76D4_zpse8ceede3.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/12FF92E9-3990-4213-AEFB-0914E7323D0A-3412-000002C58D31E292_zpsd9bed2a2.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/12FF92E9-3990-4213-AEFB-0914E7323D0A-3412-000002C58D31E292_zpsd9bed2a2.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/7C1B94AE-C22F-4783-9CCD-56187966644B-3412-000002C57E41ED42_zpse96701e2.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/7C1B94AE-C22F-4783-9CCD-56187966644B-3412-000002C57E41ED42_zpse96701e2.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/8A27E0E1-DB31-4FAD-BA09-866D2F8F0BFF-3412-000002C56E54C259_zpsc0d4fe31.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/8A27E0E1-DB31-4FAD-BA09-866D2F8F0BFF-3412-000002C56E54C259_zpsc0d4fe31.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/1959EE61-4775-405F-B0B8-E0EA5945E6B6-3412-000002C560E4B640_zpse12675c2.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/1959EE61-4775-405F-B0B8-E0EA5945E6B6-3412-000002C560E4B640_zpse12675c2.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/3B9F7572-5213-487C-83D3-D1F07680589B-3412-000002C5523A9ECD_zpsb9a0fd99.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/3B9F7572-5213-487C-83D3-D1F07680589B-3412-000002C5523A9ECD_zpsb9a0fd99.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/1BC78036-1192-4F52-AD36-75F93BCCDE49-3412-000002C5419C1164_zps61a31983.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/1BC78036-1192-4F52-AD36-75F93BCCDE49-3412-000002C5419C1164_zps61a31983.jpg.html)
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Looks like you worked around those pin knots pretty good. You might want to lightly sand them.
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Looking real good Daniel! The one on the very edge either needs removed or super glued. I don't know if you can sacrifice any width at that knot, but it would concern me.
What's the overall stave looking like?
As for pics, I either compress for webpage or custom size 640 x 480. Hope that helps and look forward to a finished bow pics.
Tracy
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Cant give advice on the bow,but the easiest way to handle pics is to use a service like photobucket or picasa or such.
There are a ton of them out there.
Just remember that as soon as you move a pic in those "albums" you break the link to where you posted it.
I solve this by put all pics i post in one album and never touch it.
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Tracy
I'm at 1 7/16" on the width right now I can get a picture of the whole stave this after noon. The one on the edge was worrying me the most. I will sand them and repost pictures. I want to post some pictures showing the twist too see if it will need to be addressed later.
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Looks like your on the right track :D
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I think your OK Dan...if the one on the edge concerns you then apply some sinew along the edge there alongside that knot...so along the side of the bow where that knot is close to the edge..I have done it before with knots on the edge where I had no choice because the way the stave split and some of the grain that flows around a knot got a lil thin and slightly violated so I ran sinew along the side to what I call "bridging the gap" to fill up the missing part of the grain...then after tillering I put a sinew wrap around it at each end of the "patch" along the side to reinsure after knowing it survived tillering and some shooting....make sense?
Or if you want even more insurance you can just rawhide back the whole bow wrapping the rawhide down around the sides some ...but I'd do what I mentioned first and go unbacked,but that's just me and my prejudice towards having a selfbow
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From the little experience I have with black locust it really boosts the performance with a good heat treating. It might not help with the knots, but it will help keep the bow from fretting and makes it shoot much faster. With a heavy heat treating it made a little 40 lbs @ 18" locust bow shoot as hard as my fiber glass recurve that draws 45lbs @ 28". I didn't speed test this but I was shooting the same arrows into a target and the arrows shot from the locust bow got there quicker and penetrated deeper. If you decide to back the bow with something like the sinew or rawhide like mentioned and want to heat treat then I would heat treat first then back it or the glue could let go.
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I just started working a black locust stave with the same exact specs :laugh: . Ill keep an eye on this post.
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Here is where I'm at now have all them sanded down but I'm afraid I have sanded them too much? I hope I haven't but if so I know what not to do now :laugh: I still need to sand the back some more and get some final tool marks out. So do you think the pin knots look doomed?
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/796930F7-D915-4A02-9E54-73F9B9BDD77E-1689-0000016122E19CCA_zpsf317ffe9.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/796930F7-D915-4A02-9E54-73F9B9BDD77E-1689-0000016122E19CCA_zpsf317ffe9.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/F6697BE6-39FB-4A95-A800-4A36024E4CFB-1682-000001600F375B6C_zps718c1cac.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/F6697BE6-39FB-4A95-A800-4A36024E4CFB-1682-000001600F375B6C_zps718c1cac.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/BA739EA3-1DA9-49A5-85C4-80AF4F9397EE-1668-0000015EEA097239_zpsf0685e6c.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/BA739EA3-1DA9-49A5-85C4-80AF4F9397EE-1668-0000015EEA097239_zpsf0685e6c.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/50DB45EC-E816-4774-B4E3-33B658005C91-1609-00000150F95EA554_zpsdcb687ed.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/50DB45EC-E816-4774-B4E3-33B658005C91-1609-00000150F95EA554_zpsdcb687ed.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/2A1F6FA8-2EAA-434B-8838-7CF62C9CE198-1609-00000150D1FF4D8D_zps376868b9.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/2A1F6FA8-2EAA-434B-8838-7CF62C9CE198-1609-00000150D1FF4D8D_zps376868b9.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/12D94AB5-329D-4669-AC69-C98CC203FEF9-1609-0000015097D88A3F_zpsa058d87f.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/12D94AB5-329D-4669-AC69-C98CC203FEF9-1609-0000015097D88A3F_zpsa058d87f.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/85CDF079-576B-47A9-93ED-100FA897BDE9-1609-0000015062BA4514_zps3e309cc0.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/85CDF079-576B-47A9-93ED-100FA897BDE9-1609-0000015062BA4514_zps3e309cc0.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/7B41A208-3DA1-4E59-BD7E-B9E864850E1B-1609-000001501E7E0C4A_zpsb87b2034.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/7B41A208-3DA1-4E59-BD7E-B9E864850E1B-1609-000001501E7E0C4A_zpsb87b2034.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/330C58D1-D34F-47AA-8F06-40DE62B30CCD-1609-0000014FD7F8CB3F_zpse22eb833.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/330C58D1-D34F-47AA-8F06-40DE62B30CCD-1609-0000014FD7F8CB3F_zpse22eb833.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/0FA2EFEA-11EA-4EDE-A694-EC647A963ECB-1609-0000014F64A1D3C3_zpsb826e942.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/0FA2EFEA-11EA-4EDE-A694-EC647A963ECB-1609-0000014F64A1D3C3_zpsb826e942.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/1F663A9F-D074-4A4F-97BC-89AE086E6516-1550-0000014CC966DFCC_zps3ccf73bb.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/1F663A9F-D074-4A4F-97BC-89AE086E6516-1550-0000014CC966DFCC_zps3ccf73bb.jpg.html)
Chris do you mean something like this except for get the sinew into smaller pieces and prepare the wood for gluing? Also what should I use for glue I have read of people using hide glue (the best?) but some have used TB3 as well? Sorry for all the questions and pictures everyone just want to be thorough.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/B9633538-3778-40A6-AAF4-09E8203F9704-4086-000003125ABC89C8_zpsec314949.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/B9633538-3778-40A6-AAF4-09E8203F9704-4086-000003125ABC89C8_zpsec314949.jpg.html)
Bowman I like your locust bow you posted that was quick has taken me forever to just get the back pristine.
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Thanks, hopefully yours doesnt get compression fractures like mine did, too heavy for a bow that narrow. Oh well on to the next one. Good luck :)
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Great thread and cool looking stave your workin. Hope you get a great bow from it. Thanks for the lessons ;)
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Yup...that's exactly what I mean...use titebondIII for wraps n such,and use hide glue if you actually are gonna sinew back a bow tho for future reference....just shred that sinew down a lil finer and let it set in warm water till there good and noodley ,then pick the bundle out and squeeze out as much excess water as ya can with your fingers,then dip and saturate them in some titebond,squeeze out the extra glue,and lay them down...easy peasy ;)
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The back looks good Daniel. Shaping up just fine!
Tracy
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Alright thanks guys that makes me feel better. I guess my next step will get some of the belly meat off next. Should I add the sinew once I get it floor tillered? I also will post a picture of the twist once I get some straws from wendys.
Thanks,
Daniel
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If your gonna have to do any heat corrections then get it good n floor tillered first and make the heat corrections before you put that sinew patch along the side..
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First off I'll show what I did step by step to see if I did it right? This is how one of the members on here told me to do it he don't post much but has made a few bows :laugh:
First I marked my center line.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/66905FC1-A96F-47ED-8EC6-2AFF6E21DCD6-2506-000001B37ECC9C21_zps32ed9064.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/66905FC1-A96F-47ED-8EC6-2AFF6E21DCD6-2506-000001B37ECC9C21_zps32ed9064.jpg.html)
Then I marked my 4in handle 2in on each side of my center line.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/CE5ACCDB-AF5E-4C7B-9716-E3945328E86B-2506-000001B39543AB9F_zpsd8bc32af.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/CE5ACCDB-AF5E-4C7B-9716-E3945328E86B-2506-000001B39543AB9F_zpsd8bc32af.jpg.html)
Next I marked my fades which go 1 1/2in past the handle.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/81BA4EF0-330D-4A1D-B80B-2B00F4545FAB-2506-000001B3A852C3F2_zpsab2e6fab.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/81BA4EF0-330D-4A1D-B80B-2B00F4545FAB-2506-000001B3A852C3F2_zpsab2e6fab.jpg.html)
Now the part I'm not 100% sure about. I measured my handle 3/4in thick. Then tapered from the end of the handle to the end of the fade to 1/2in does that sound right? I didn't draw it curved was going to leave it heavy and shape that more with a rasp. From the half inch at the fade I did a facet taper to 3/8in at the tips or atleast I think I did would like an explanation of that if you don't mind?
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/5741E43D-AF30-4046-8680-58FAC9E0A8CA-715-000000DD1FBAD8C7_zps6a3bc315.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/5741E43D-AF30-4046-8680-58FAC9E0A8CA-715-000000DD1FBAD8C7_zps6a3bc315.jpg.html)
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Next I am going to show you guys the picture of how much twist it has. How many degrees would you consider this? Does it need heat correcting to get the twist out or should it be left?
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/A4D60BF3-51B5-40AB-B12D-8915A6F10C3E-2506-000001B3417E8D1A_zps4ea2d760.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/A4D60BF3-51B5-40AB-B12D-8915A6F10C3E-2506-000001B3417E8D1A_zps4ea2d760.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/24941748-453D-4EF3-A016-2B056D255762-2506-000001B3589D311F_zps7e72e9ae.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/24941748-453D-4EF3-A016-2B056D255762-2506-000001B3589D311F_zps7e72e9ae.jpg.html)
Here is another problem I ran into reducing the belly thickness. Remember that pin hole I had on the back Chris well this is what I found on the belly side what do y'all think?
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/ED6125FA-295C-42B3-9461-F459DCB3E854-664-000000D96F881D62_zps7de7362b.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/ED6125FA-295C-42B3-9461-F459DCB3E854-664-000000D96F881D62_zps7de7362b.jpg.html)
This one is just for fun I think I am going to have to rasp it I couldn't budge it with my draw knife even pulled my handle off a few times. Should I rasp it or take my panties off and put my boxers on n drawknife it?
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/349316A6-0BC7-46FC-815C-9EC72134AC2E-664-000000D9A66AA62D_zps2184f371.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/349316A6-0BC7-46FC-815C-9EC72134AC2E-664-000000D9A66AA62D_zps2184f371.jpg.html)
Thanks,
Daniel
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Is that a knot you are tryin to remove in that last picture? If I have something like that on osage I'll work it just like you did and then I'll put a hatchet up to it and smack it with a hammer. It usually pops right off. Jut be careful to not go down to many rings if it tears out.
Your bow is looking good so far. What happened to the one you were working on at Dave's?
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I would remove that much twist with heat and weighted pipe wrench.
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Alright sounds good guys I will work on it some more and get back with you guys. Clint I had my rasps sharpend that were given to me I am waiting on them to get back and then I am going to work on finishing the one I had at Dave's. This is just to pass the time until they arrive I want to see where the one other one leads me before trying to finish this one. I will prolly get the belly meat work off this one and put it down for awhile and switch to the other bow.
Thanks,
Daniel
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Hatchet will work for that snarl. Heat is probably easier to access, but I just finished straightening a black locust stave with heat and would have steamed it for the sake of time. I had to heat and clamp several times to get rid of the twist from end to end. With steam, I could have gotten it all done with one clamping session. Use what is easiest and accessible to you Daniel. Looks like you're doing a great job taking your time and being thorough!
Tracy
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As a rule, I just ignore prop twist. Looks to me that each limb twists to the same degree opposite one another, so it should cause you no problems IMO. You may find that some of it straightens out as you begin to shoot it. Heat bending the wood to straighten it comes with some risk, very doable, but just not worth the effort or risk in my book. Been following your post. Nice job thus far.
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I have a heat gun and I think I know how heating the twist out would be set up. How would you do that with steam? Thanks everyone just been wanting to take my time and learn/do it right.
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When I heat straighten a prop twist, I clamp the handle in a vice, go out the limb to the first of the twist, wrap a piece of leather over the limb about 3-4" out from where I want to straighten it. Then I hang a large pipe wrench over the leather. I hang a weight from the end of the pipe wrench. Set up a "stop block" system under the weight to prevent the weight from twisting the limb to much. I use a milk crate, and blocks of wood to stop the weight from pulling the limb too far. Also, the heating will pull the limb down as well as twisting it. You can put a brace under the limb to prevent this. Once everything is set up I heat the area I want to straighten, SLOWLY. When it bends a little passed straight I put blocks and shims under the weight to prevent them from twisting the limb any farther. Then wait until it is completely cooled, 2 to 3 hours minimum, a half day or longer is better.
I then re-clamp the limb in the straight area and move on out the limb doing the same process.
After one limb is done, I do the other limb. When the stave is straight I wait at least 3 days for the limb to rehydrate/stabilize before I work on it any more.
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I have made one BL bow (it failed at a pin knot cause I accidentally dry fired it). And the second one is in the works. I really put the heat to both of them and the BL seems to take it fine. I took out about that much twist and had 3/4 inch string alignment issues. If that was mine I would put together a jig and grab a wrench and a milk jug of water.
Nice work so far
Greg.
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Daniel, I have a steam box that fits over a pot of water on a fish fryer burner that will hold a couple staves. It takes a little time but it would have allowed me to steam once and clamp to the caul instead of heating specific areas and manipulating. Have to be quick with the clamps when steaming and have everything thing laid out and ready. Maybe I can bring my setup sometime if we all get together. I would stick with your gun if that is what you have, it will do the job. I'm with slimbob in that prop twist is not a deal breaker and will make a shooter
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Daniel, I have a steam box that fits over a pot of water on a fish fryer burner that will hold a couple staves. It takes a little time but it would have allowed me to steam once and clamp to the caul instead of heating specific areas and manipulating. Have to be quick with the clamps when steaming and have everything thing laid out and ready. Maybe I can bring my setup sometime if we all get together. I would stick with your gun if that is what you have, it will do the job. I'm with slimbob in that prop twist is not a deal breaker and will make a shooter
I would love to take you up on that offer if we all get together this summer Tracy that sounds like a great idea to do it all in one steaming instead of multi heat gun sessions. I think I have seen a steam set up close to what you are describing over on PP? When clamping to the caul do you have to take the twist out by hand? Whats your caul like something similar to what Clint had at Dave's I believe it was fiberglass angle "iron"?
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Daniel, I've only worked with steam a couple of times. Everyone develops a work pattern that works for them. Tracy is correct you can steam the stave, BUT you have to quick with the clamping process. I think I remember PatB saying you have about 15 seconds to get it clamped. My limited experience say that's real close, 30 seconds maybe, 60 seconds and you're wasting your time. If I had a bunch of the hand squeeze type clamps instead of the screw down C-clamps, I might do more steaming. But, I just can't work fast enough to get the clamps on the stave. And you'll really need to put some shims under parts of the limb to raise the lower side of the twist. I just can't work that fast.
Here's a third way to remove you prop AND induce reflex all at the same time. This "might" be the best way to the job because it will do both at the same time. You can use you heat. There's no time clock on the clamping. You can straighten string alignment. And it's probably faster than the pipe wrench process. It does require you building a caul. I some times think I spend more time building tools, form and cauls than I do making bows.
Buy two 2x6 six feet long and a 1x6, six feet long. Mark the one 2x6 the way you want the reflex to be. There are several build-alongs on making cauls. Determine the length of bows that you're most likely to build. I mostly build 58" to 62" bows. So, I made my cauls 60" long. I like a 3" reflex. More than that it's difficult for me to do the early tillering. Less than 2" is not enough. Others will have there own thoughts and preferences. I'm just stating what works for me at the moment.
Layout one 2x6 with the reflex you want and cut it out. A bandsaw is best, but it can be done with a jigsaw. Mark down from the top curve 1 1/2". Cut out the bottom arch. Now you have a 1 1/2 by 1 1/2 arc. Use it to layout out your arc on the second 2x6. Cut the second 2x6. Match them together. Glue and screw them together. Drill pilot holes so they don't split on you.
Now you need to sand them smooth with no twists or dips on the top. Remember, you're going to be clamping your stave to them. If there is a dip or a twist in the top arc you'll have that same dip and twist in your stave. A belt sander is great and fast, but also great is quickly making a dip or twist. A rasp, sanding block and scraper can also be used.
Now you have an 1 1/2" deep by 3" wide arc. Lay it on the 1x6 and mark the 1x6. Cut out that arc. Now measure down 1 1/2 from the top of the arc on the 1 x 6. Lay the 1 1/2 x 3" arc on the line you just marked. Screw and glue them together. What you now have is a form with a 1 1/2 by 3" arc attached to a 1/6 with and 1 1/2 backing above that arc.
You're now ready to clamp down, straighten and untwist your stave. Reduce your stave to floor tillered. The less amount of wood you have to heat correct the better. Some might even take it to a full brace. Clamp the handle in the middle and on both ends of the handle section. The handle CAN'T move right or left or you will end up with one limb taking more reflex than the other limb. I know ;)
If you just clamp the limb flat against the caul, you're more than likely going to still end up with some prop twist do to spring back after you unclamp it. I like to go 20% more than I need to allow for the spring back. So, you'll need to put shims under the stave in key places to create this addition correction. Also, if you need to align the string you can do that by clamping the stave to the backboard 1x6.
If you're doing string alignment and prop twist correction at the same time, you'll find that you'll need to loosen some clamps to allow the limb to move because you're clamping the stave horizonally and vertically at the same time.
Once you get the stave clamped heat slowly. Keep the gun 3 to 4 inches above the stave. Don't rush the process or you'll either not get enough heat to make the corrections or you'll scorch the wood. Do one section at a time starting at the handle. I do about 3 to 4 inches on one side of the handle then do the other side of the handle. I keep alternating this way until I get to the tips.
Plan for about an hour with the heat gun in your hand. Leave it on the caul at least over night. Wait at least 3 days for the wood to stabilize before working. So, it might as well stay on the caul that long anyhow.
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Glad you typed all that Hedge,I use a form and reflex/take out twist and make any alignment corrections all at once,I steam wood if it is green or only a year
or so old but older wood I heat bend. Unlike a lot on here, I can't stand prop twist in a bow,it is to easy to take out in most cases so I figure why leave it,I will say it really don't matter as long as it ant bad enough that the string will pop off. Hard to tell from the pictures but looks like you sanded the top off of the pin knots, you done a great job working over them and then looks like you sanded them off. :-\ If so I would probably back with rawhide or something,I have done that before and usually have issues if not right off over time.Good looking stave and should make a good shooter. :)
Pappy
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Heat gun it is then I don't think I will be quick enough and I could take my time with the heat gun. Thanks for the very informative post Dave I will have to re read it to fully digest everything and get me a good caul built. Pappy that's what I was afraid of the entire time I thought I might have sanded the pin knots too much. :-[ So I guess my next step will be getting to floor tiller and making a caul to remove the twist do you recommend adding reflex? The reason I ask is because I didn't want to make it too complicated being it will be my second stave bow after I finish the other one if it doesn't break.
Thanks,
Daniel
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That trick with the hatchet worked like a charm few whacks and it popped right off. I don't think I will try doing it again because like you said Clint it did tear out quite a bit I'm afraid of tearing out too much if I give it a second go. Do I need to be extra careful with tear out around that knot with my rasp? Here is what it looked like.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/8AFB4AE9-CC6D-4A33-BEAC-B0BF5F1AC717-2305-00000249C89DDF07_zps3b82d1e0.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/8AFB4AE9-CC6D-4A33-BEAC-B0BF5F1AC717-2305-00000249C89DDF07_zps3b82d1e0.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/D17D3F60-46FA-426F-9C18-45B062C030D3-2305-0000024A03382181_zps7cf84af6.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/D17D3F60-46FA-426F-9C18-45B062C030D3-2305-0000024A03382181_zps7cf84af6.jpg.html)
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/6402B65F-46EA-4EDE-8D5D-0ABEB5E7AC90-2305-0000024A3EE00A65_zpsef436fad.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/6402B65F-46EA-4EDE-8D5D-0ABEB5E7AC90-2305-0000024A3EE00A65_zpsef436fad.jpg.html)
I got a lot of the belly meat off as you can see in this last picture but I will pick back up on it with the rasp. I thought they would be back since they shipped in the middle of the week but guess it takes awhile for them to get from California to Kentucky.
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/dnl17694/6D83234D-83AC-403D-9ADF-DB975EDF9811-2305-0000024B44FFA73F_zps1b2249b7.jpg) (http://s1120.photobucket.com/user/dnl17694/media/6D83234D-83AC-403D-9ADF-DB975EDF9811-2305-0000024B44FFA73F_zps1b2249b7.jpg.html)