Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: anasazi on April 14, 2013, 08:29:55 pm
-
I was talking with a old friend the other day who said shoot shafts ( choke cherry and red osier) would have a hard time staying straight in a quiver and don't do to well with draw weights in the 50# and 60# range he mentioned using cedar instead. What are your thoughts on this and could split cedar fence rails work? Its always good to get multiple opinions i think. Thanks for the help
-
50-60 is where most of my shoot shafts wind up. Haven't had any more problems with shoots staying straight than cedar. Maybe his shoots weren't dry enough? The remarkable thing is that most of the old bows were probably in the 40-70# range. Comfortable to shoot. Strong enough for big game ,and it's easy to find shoot shafts to match them for spine. Just my observation.Every thing you really need is usually right in front of you. ;)
-
My shoot shafts spine heavy but because of their natural taper they shoot in lighter weight bows. A well seasoned shoot shaft will stay as straight as any other shafting. If durability makes a difference, there is no comparison between cedars and hardwood shoots like red osier. Hardwood shoot arrows win hands down. ;)
-
That kinda falls in line with what i was thinking from reading other posts thanks for the input.
Have any of you tried grooving your shafts and does it help any with keeping them straight or is it just medicine?
-
I've grooved a few and didn't notice any difference over similar ungrooved shoots but on some viburnums I made a few years ago the grooves did help keep them straight. If the shoots are prone to not staying straight I would groove them.
-
I've grooved a few and didn't notice any difference over similar ungrooved shoots but on some viburnums I made a few years ago the grooves did help keep them straight. If the shoots are prone to not staying straight I would groove them.
What do you mean by grooving them and how do you do it?
-
I am shooting red osier shafts out of a 64 lb hickory bow with no problems. They are just tad over 5/16 at the point end and right at 5/16 on the nock end and 30 inches long. After they are dried out good they stay as straight as cedar. Plus they are quite a bit more durable. I have a matched set for my 51 lb hickory long bow as well. I have broken most of the cedar shafts for the 51 lb bow. Red osier in a 5/16 size spine heavier than cedar does of the same size indicating a more dense/harder wood. ;)
Can't beat red osier for hunting or stumping with. :)
Greg
-
Cedar makes great arrows but they are not durable and will break at the drop of a hat. I've made lots of cedar arrows over the years but since I started using hardwood shoots and cane I haven't bought any more cedar.
-
Bare shaft tuning my dogwoods leave me with an arrow that flys like a dart [clean], hits home hard,and more durable compared to cedar,fir,&spruce.Just get enough shafts together drying and straightening then you'll always have some around.I shoot mine at ranges with guys shooting carbons all the time.Their plastic nocks always breaking and their screw in tips not tight enough making noise up the ying yang.It's a bit of an art making nice dogwoods.No need for grooves either.They stay straight.Like Pat B said those and cane are the best.
-
Bare shaft tuning my dogwoods leave me with an arrow that flys like a dart [clean], hits home hard,and more durable compared to cedar,fir,&spruce.Just get enough shafts together drying and straightening then you'll always have some around.I shoot mine at ranges with guys shooting carbons all the time.Their plastic nocks always breaking and their screw in tips not tight enough making noise up the ying yang.It's a bit of an art making nice dogwoods.No need for grooves either.They stay straight.Like Pat B said those and cane are the best.
+1
After making and shooting a dozen spined correctly for your bow you won't go back to cedar. ;)
Greg
-
Here is why ceder is popular- it smells good, is light, and is easy to work.
Sitka spruce is stronger, light, but it don't smell as good.
Black locust is heavy, VERY strong, and does not smell good.
I like BL and cane shafts because I can go shooting and not worry about a shaft breaking.
Ceder seems too weak and soft for anything IMO.
-
Here is why ceder is popular- it smells good, is light, and is easy to work.
Sitka spruce is stronger, light, but it don't smell as good.
Black locust is heavy, VERY strong, and does not smell good.
I like BL and cane shafts because I can go shooting and not worry about a shaft breaking.
Ceder seems too weak and soft for anything IMO.
I just cut a locust tree down about a month ago and have 7 large staves. I am going to make a half dozen and see what they do. Ya otta post a build along ;)
-
Here is why ceder is popular- it smells good, is light, and is easy to work.
Sitka spruce is stronger, light, but it don't smell as good.
Black locust is heavy, VERY strong, and does not smell good.
I like BL and cane shafts because I can go shooting and not worry about a shaft breaking.
Ceder seems too weak and soft for anything IMO.
I just cut a locust tree down about a month ago and have 7 large staves. I am going to make a half dozen and see what they do. Ya otta post a build along ;)
Dude, ive got locust coming out of my ears.
I am currently working with 4 elm staves, an elm bow(its about half tillered) and a nearly done ro board bow...
:)
-
Guess i better cut some dogwood shafts next time i find some untill then ill keep up with the choke cherry
Thanks for all the advise
-
If you cut some red osier it is better to get the shafts a bit on the larger size. The larger shoots seem to be straighter and are a little more stiff. I like them half inch at the big end to start with with the bark on them. Then plane them down to the size you want. For 50 lbs 5/16 at the point end works for me 5/16 at the nock end 28.5 to back of point, 125 gr point weight. They are just a hair over 10gpp. For the shafts for my 64 lb bow they are 11/32 at the point end and 5/16 at the nock end with 160 gr points. The arrows for 64 lb bow are 11gpp and arrow length is 29.5 back of point. I want the 64 lb arrows to have lots of mass to facilitate good pass thru on deer and such. The 64 pound arrows might be just a tad soft in spine but nothing of any concern at 25 yards. (Nothing wrong with 50 lb either they will blow right thru a deers vitals as well.)
Hope this helps with you. ;)
Greg
-
Does any one use bulbous nock's and if so what size are your nock's? Do you shrink the shaft just in front of the nock or is your nock all together bigger than the shaft?
Is there any advantage to a three fletch or disadvantage to a two fletch?
Thank you every one for your help.
-
I have about 60 more plastic nocks to use up then I will just cut them in with a hacksaw blade. I would just tape two or three hack saw blades together then reinforce with sinew or thread glues on with tb3. Other may chime in on bulbed nocks but I donno
Greg
-
Do you normally straighten them before or after you reduce them to size?
-
Do you normally straighten them before or after you reduce them to size?
The process goes as follows: Cut them about 6-8inches longer then you need them. Leave the bark on and let dry for about 3 months. (you can quick dry them but seal the ends good after you take the bark off of them.) 2. Once dry use some dry heat to straighten the worst of the kinks out of them (bark off at this point), do this 2 or three times. 3. doewl them down to 3/8 of an inch at the big end and straighten again, concentrate on getting the shaft a little straighter than the initial straightening, do this a couple more times. 4. Do a final doweling down to close to the size you need. If you want a 5/16 shaft dowel them down to 11/32 then sand with 60 grit till they will almost fit into a 5/16 hole drilled in a piece of wood. 5. Straighten a final time then sand with finer sand paper till they will fit snugly in 5/16 hole the entire way, steel wool with 0000 steel wool and apply stain/finish.
You will find the shafts will warp if they get real dry or real wet so don't leave them out in the rain all day or laying in the lawn. Also when using dry heat don't burn the shaft just barley toast them and that is hot enough. You will notice after a couple of weeks of finish being applied they might need just very slight heat to touch up the straightness. Then cut nocks, fletch, attach points and go shoot them ;) I do find that finding the stiff side of the shaft and putting it so it faces away from the bow (cock feather side) helps the arrow shoot a little better. They don't have to be perfect to get flight that is good. A decent set of arrows will allow you to kill game out to 45 yards if you do you job as a shooter. I have shot some of these out of my target recurve and they are just as accurate as my target cedar arrows when set up correctly for the bow being shot out of. Hope this helps,
Greg
-
Self nocks don't need reinforcement unless you are using WEAK wood. I frequently shoot self-nocked POC, Rose, Cane and Honeysuckle arrows off of a 50 pound recurve. the only ones that are wrapped are Honeysuckle cause it has very hollow stems.
Never split a nock so far.
-
Does any one use bulbous nock's and if so what size are your nock's? Do you shrink the shaft just in front of the nock or is your nock all together bigger than the shaft?
Is there any advantage to a three fletch or disadvantage to a two fletch?
I use them. ;D
Yep, I shrink (carve) the shaft just in front of the nock and taper the shaft.
Two or three fletches work just fine either way. The neater the job, the better, of course.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/2010-12-28-Southern%20Plains%20Arrow/DSC_1519.jpg) (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/jackcrafty/media/2010-12-28-Southern%20Plains%20Arrow/DSC_1519.jpg.html)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/2010-12-28-Southern%20Plains%20Arrow/DSC_1518.jpg) (http://s246.photobucket.com/user/jackcrafty/media/2010-12-28-Southern%20Plains%20Arrow/DSC_1518.jpg.html)
-
Lol...............nooooob thought, are cedar shafts really that good for arrows considering their weakness and light compared to say Douglas fir shafts
-
POC (Port Orford Cedar) is big business. VERY big business. Think Coke... or Pepsi for archers.
-
I heat my finished dogwood shafts in the oven on 200 degrees for 25-30 min. I take them out using gloves, straighten by hand then groove the shafts while still hot with two grooves from just under where the where the fletching will be all the way to the point. I then bundle 3-4 together and let sit till completely cool, Most will stay straight after this grooving while hot.
-
POC (Port Orford Cedar) is big business. VERY big business. Think Coke... or Pepsi for archers.
But does everyone drink Cola? I think not, Mellow-yellow is quite delicious. So is hot green tea, assuming its still hot.
-
But does everyone drink Cola? I think not, Mellow-yellow is quite delicious. So is hot green tea, assuming its still hot.
If Pepsi = POC, then Mellow Yellow = ?.
Methinks reed or some other thatching material.
Green Tea = Horseweed. >:D
-
But does everyone drink Cola? I think not, Mellow-yellow is quite delicious. So is hot green tea, assuming its still hot.
If Pepsi = POC, then Mellow Yellow = ?.
Methinks reed or some other thatching material.
Green Tea = Horseweed. >:D
:o
Green tea= river cane
Mellow Yellow= Ash
-
No big secert to keeping shoot arrow straight.
I straighten perty straight, leave the bark on bundle. I use'lly bundle around survey stake for keep them as straight as posable. I lay flat for a year or 2,3 then make the arrows when I get around to it. All shoots ,the longer they season the straighter they stay. there's just different drying lenths for different woods if your in a hurry.