Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: dwardo on April 13, 2013, 09:03:12 am

Title: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 13, 2013, 09:03:12 am
Ayup all,

This is my first attempt at a lever type bow, well the first got this far anyway ;)

Right looks a little stiff in spots to me. Bow is 61 inches long and the working limbs are only about 16 inches long each  :o surely this cant be right lol! To be honest except maybe Blackhawks lever bows i find them pretty ugly  :D
Anways its taken only an inch of follow so far. Started flat took an inch about 18 draw, heat treated flat again and now has the inch back at about 26 draw length where its pulling about 50lb give or take. Still a load of mass i can remove from the tips and levers if it makes it that far. Oh its cherry again btw. working limbs 2, 3/8

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/IMAG2028_zps261dfc50.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/IMAG2027_zps115be817.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/IMAG2029_zps5baf4d4c.jpg)

knot right through upper mid lmb (right)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/IMAG2031_zps06134ac6.jpg)
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: burchett.donald on April 13, 2013, 09:16:24 am
  Wow! nice bend on some Cherry...
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: blackhawk on April 13, 2013, 09:20:31 am
That's awful close...how's it look in the hand?
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 13, 2013, 09:25:46 am
That's awful close...how's it look in the hand?
#
Was hoping you would be around bud  ;)

Once the missus and boy wake up will get a drawn int hand shot and post it, wont be long.
The first time i measured the working limbs i thought, nah that cant be right lol, but then took another look at some of your stuff and it made me feel better.
Post it up in a bit.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 13, 2013, 09:33:19 am
Whilst they sleep i am also playing with this
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG1999_zps629d64cc.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG2000_zps2caff0c7.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/Bow%20making/IMAG2002circle_zps72c48a85.jpg)

this is way to heavy at the minute and needs reducing a hell of a lot before i over-power the belly.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: SLIMBOB on April 13, 2013, 09:54:49 am
Looking really nice!  Sweet bend for sure.   I love Cherry, but a tough candidate for this type of bow.  Excellent!
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: ScottN on April 13, 2013, 10:09:16 am
looks good! i really like the side profile. the curved tips make it look so much better!

In your first port you called this a "lever type bow". Can you explain the meaning of that? I have not heard this term before. Isn't this bow design a Holmegaard?
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 13, 2013, 10:20:44 am
looks good! i really like the side profile. the curved tips make it look so much better!

In your first port you called this a "lever type bow". Can you explain the meaning of that? I have not heard this term before. Isn't this bow design a Holmegaard?

Lever bow just meaning the outer limbs are stiff and thin acting like levers to the bending inner portion of the limb. I would say more mollegabet in style but an extreme one as the original seems to have much shorter "levers"
Blackhawk is our resident molly maker ;)

There are two different bows above if that wasnt clear sorry. 
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: CaptainBeaky on April 13, 2013, 11:36:37 am

Right looks a little stiff in spots to me.

I thought the right was bending more than the left, but not so evenly :?

Bow is 61 inches long and the working limbs are only about 16 inches long each  :o surely this cant be right lol!
The one I've just finished was 18" of working limb in 68" OAL - about 2/3 working limb, 1/3 lever.

Anyways its taken only an inch of follow so far. Started flat took an inch about 18 draw, heat treated flat again and now has the inch back at about 26 draw length where its pulling about 50lb give or take. Still a load of mass i can remove from the tips and levers if it makes it that far. Oh its cherry again btw. working limbs 2, 3/8

Not too much set then - looking forward to seeing more of this one.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: Del the cat on April 13, 2013, 12:09:35 pm
Wow, lookin' V sweet to me Dude.
I sometimes think lever bows have too much happening over too short a distance. Yours looks nice and smooth, not over working near the grip.
Del
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 13, 2013, 02:36:50 pm
Wow, lookin' V sweet to me Dude.
I sometimes think lever bows have too much happening over too short a distance. Yours looks nice and smooth, not over working near the grip.
Del

Thanks Dell, when you look at how much wood there is doing the work it is a little offputting and counterintuitive.
The missus just gave me that look when I asked her to go outside in the cold n rain to take a rd shot so that's out till the morrow.
Put just a few arrows through this at 3/4 draw and it's an odd feeling. I could have went for a slightly bending handle and a tiny amount of bend in the levers but this is a kind of test for cherry so might as well push the boat out and see what it can take. The static above is also cherry so will see how that fairs.
I have a static wych elm roughed out which has thinner working limbs than these two but it's shockingly more dense than the cherry. At smaller diensions I still can't get it to flex at all at floor tiller!
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: Joec123able on April 13, 2013, 02:47:16 pm
Is this bow from a stave or board ??
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 13, 2013, 02:57:04 pm
Is this bow from a stave or board ??

Stave Joe, not had the pleasure of working a board yet. Most local lumber suppliers over here stock pine, pine, pine and chipboard.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: Del the cat on April 13, 2013, 03:45:23 pm
Wow, lookin' V sweet to me Dude.
I sometimes think lever bows have too much happening over too short a distance. Yours looks nice and smooth, not over working near the grip.
Del

Thanks Dell, when you look at how much wood there is doing the work it is a little offputting and counterintuitive.
The missus just gave me that look when I asked her to go outside in the cold n rain to take a rd shot so that's out till the morrow.
Put just a few arrows through this at 3/4 draw and it's an odd feeling. I could have went for a slightly bending handle and a tiny amount of bend in the levers but this is a kind of test for cherry so might as well push the boat out and see what it can take. The static above is also cherry so will see how that fairs.
I have a static wych elm roughed out which has thinner working limbs than these two but it's shockingly more dense than the cherry. At smaller diensions I still can't get it to flex at all at floor tiller!
I like the concept of a sllght flex in handle and levers, it shows they are not carrying excess weight :)
Del
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 13, 2013, 06:25:07 pm
Nice bow! That's a wrap. Super tiller. I hate "the look". I wonder  how many times I got the look in 41 years of marriage. :) Jawge
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 13, 2013, 07:42:49 pm
Nice bow! That's a wrap. Super tiller. I hate "the look". I wonder  how many times I got the look in 41 years of marriage. :) Jawge

Its the look that needs no explanation, doesn't even matter if you are right or wrong - just back down keep eye contact until a safe distance is achieved.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: danny f on April 14, 2013, 05:46:31 am
they are both looking nice. cant wait to see them finished off.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: DuBois on April 14, 2013, 06:56:01 am
they are both looking nice. cant wait to see them finished off.
+1

Hey George, I assume your still married after gettin the look for 41 years? I have been wondering if the divorce rate is higher among bowyers ever since I started into this a year ago and have had the initial few questions about "why" then the look, and now mostly ignoring if I stay out of her way  ;D
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 15, 2013, 08:49:51 am
This is the molly effort. Seems to shoot ok but not as fast as previous bows. Thinking of tempering it again one last time. Follow is about 1.5 inch. What you all thinking?

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/fdupload_zpsf508535e.jpg)

Bit of limb torque on the top but its tricky to remove as the wood is a little all over the shop there. Knot doesnt help much.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: mikekeswick on April 15, 2013, 10:22:09 am
I found a monster cherry the other day, it must have been 2 1/2 feet diameter and straight as a telegraph pole! Bit heavy to carry back though!
Just looking at that last photo I would say that the inner limbs should be bending a shade more. 2 bricks lines above and below your hand. The mid limbs are working a little too much and then they stop bending a little too soon before the levers.
I'd blend the bend out of the fade into mid limb a little. Then where it's not bending enough outer limb i'd narrow it all the way into the levers taking out the 'shoulder' at the lever fades. All with the idea of getting a more elliptical tiller but also adjusting the working limb width profile so it doesn't need to be really elliptical...comprende?? Sort of meeting in the middle.
The thickness of the lever at the limb/lever fade only needs to be a shade thicker than the working limb thickness - it's a fun game reducing that area and still keeping it stiff where you want it to be!
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 15, 2013, 11:49:27 am
I found a monster cherry the other day, it must have been 2 1/2 feet diameter and straight as a telegraph pole! Bit heavy to carry back though!
Just looking at that last photo I would say that the inner limbs should be bending a shade more. 2 bricks lines above and below your hand. The mid limbs are working a little too much and then they stop bending a little too soon before the levers.
I'd blend the bend out of the fade into mid limb a little. Then where it's not bending enough outer limb i'd narrow it all the way into the levers taking out the 'shoulder' at the lever fades. All with the idea of getting a more elliptical tiller but also adjusting the working limb width profile so it doesn't need to be really elliptical...comprende?? Sort of meeting in the middle.
The thickness of the lever at the limb/lever fade only needs to be a shade thicker than the working limb thickness - it's a fun game reducing that area and still keeping it stiff where you want it to be!

Go back with more hands mate!
Thanks for the input its appreciated. Will get the bend upto to those levers and reduce the ott transition to the levers. Think I will temper the belly one more time just for luck as it feels the belly is taking set and weight dropping a little. Will be going back to other designs after this  ::)
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 24, 2013, 01:12:06 pm
Quick update on the cherry with flipped tips.
After a heat treat flat its pulling nicely 50@26
Showing little set so seems to be holding together. Just that horrible bit of removing tip mass.
Can anyone see anything that jumps out? Top limb has an old knot in it just before last third so that area might look a nit funky also a little limb twist here and there.

NFD (nearly full draw :) )
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/P1010017-2_zps8a85cc76.jpg)

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/IMAG2108_zps3d555f46.jpg)

Hope to get back to the molly soon, once i finish this other static wych elm which has my head scratching.
Cherry 60 ntn none bending handle. Not quite sure if the tips will work a bit yet or not.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 25, 2013, 06:52:53 am
This is the big ole knot. Calling dell, and any other knot experts, to fill or not to fill?
At the moment just has a little wood glue in the back and superglued the belly so far.

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/IMAG2110_zpscf567d5d.jpg)
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: Tom Leemans on April 25, 2013, 12:35:09 pm
If you put some glue in there and all is well, I wouldn't fill it.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: mikekeswick on April 25, 2013, 03:15:19 pm
It looks spot on.
I think i'd shoot it at 26 for a bit look at where the set is distributed. If nothing changes i'd sand it and pull to full draw.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 25, 2013, 04:38:45 pm
Thanks chaps will shoot the living daylights out of it tomorrow and see how it goes.
Have drawn the current profile onto the board, great tip mike thanks.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: Carson (CMB) on April 25, 2013, 10:04:48 pm
For that Molly, it looks like you could reduce the mass of the levers be reducing their width further.  That might help performance. Remember wood twice as wide is twice as strong, twice as thick is eight times as strong.  Bend looks good to me.
Title: Re: Bowyers eyes please.
Post by: dwardo on April 26, 2013, 09:37:09 am
It looks spot on.
I think i'd shoot it at 26 for a bit look at where the set is distributed. If nothing changes i'd sand it and pull to full draw.

Sanded and reduced the tip mass down some. Shot a few dozen arrows through it and only shows half inch of change which is distributed mainly along the outer two thirds of the limb which is fine :)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/IMAG2118_zps04bab674.jpg)

Seems to put them where I look although these arrows are maybe a little underspinded for this bow as I have a little fish tailing going on. Either that or i cant shoot for toffee which is also a likely contender.
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o218/dwardo/IMAG2117_zps13eaaea7.jpg)

Little more sanding and finish her up. Thanks for the input chaps ;)