Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Squirrelslayer on April 08, 2013, 07:15:26 pm
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Ok me and my freind always end up having the same argument. He loves guns and I love bows. He says guns are better and you don't see the army or SWAT teams using bows. Here's my argument. Bows are quiter Bows have wooden arrows so will kill vampires.You can reuse arrows.Bows have sexy curves please help me argue our love for archery and convince my freind bows are better than guns. Thanks. SS
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Both guns and bows are only tools. How, when, and under what conditions each is used is what determines which is 'better'.
OneBow
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Go out with your friend do a 15step duel and see who wins. Thats why you dont see bows used in law enforcement and military. By the time you release an arrow you wouldve been shot atlease three times.
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Saying bows are better than guns (and vice versa) is like saying jackhammers are better than scalpels. Onebowonder is absolutely right in saying that they are just tools, each used to accomplish different tasks. Would I want my eye surgeon using a jackhammer to fix my cataract? Hellz no. And would it make much sense for a construction crew to try and break up the crappy sidewalk outside my house with a bunch of tiny knives? Take a guess.
I'll put it this way: I don't hunt as much as I would like to, and I've only been doing it for about three years. Hunting with primitive/traditional equipment is unlike anything else in the world, and I love it dearly. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that my family's survival suddenly rested on my ability to bring home dinner for the next month. Based on my skills (or lack thereof) with a bow in a hunting situation, I'll take a rifle any day. On the flip side of that coin: If I was in a scenario where ammunition, or God forbid weapons themselves, were impossible to find, I'd probably be spending a heck of a lot more time learning to shoot well with a bow.
I personally feel that I can make decent arguments for both sides here, not that it's really an argument per say, as I'm pretty well involved in both 1) traditional archery and 2) Tactical/defensive shooting. I'm learning how to make ELB's, as well as learning how to shoot from various points of cover or concealment. I finally learned how to make an flemish twist string, and also figured out how to clear a double-feed on an AR. (which, by the way, can be a real pain if you don't do it right :o ) In my opinion, they're almost completely opposite worlds. To me, archery is about the primitive senses, of getting away from unnecessary technology and getting back to your roots. Compare that to the style of shooting I'm into, where a piece of gear can literally be the difference between life and death.
TL;DR: Different tools, different jobs. One isn't better than the other.
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Go out with your friend do a 15step duel and see who wins. Thats why you dont see bows used in law enforcement and military. By the time you release an arrow you wouldve been shot atlease three times.
I would quite happily do that and be the one using the bow because all he has is BB guns. And even if it were a real gun I would die doing something I loved. ;D SS
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i think that the key here, is that there is more enjoyment out of hunting with a bow, than with a gun. Guns were made to kill people, and to efficiently kill animals with little effort involved. The reason bows usually trump guns when it comes to hunting is that, when you've killed a deer, especially with a bow made by you or someone that worked hard to make it for you, you find that there is a huge sense of accomplishment, much more over that of a gun. sure you will be proud if you kill a deer with a gun, but if you get one with a bow it is a rarity(relative to gun hunting.)
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From a weaponry point of view, modern firearms are superior in almost every way. There is a reason you don't see any of the worlds major military forces still using bows. They just cant compete with firearms on any level. For every task that a bow can do, there is a firearm that can do it better.
But that is one of the reasons I like to use bows in the first place. Its a challenge to use. Its an achievement just to be able to shoot one accurately, and to take big game with a traditional or primitive bow is one of my biggest aspirations. I don't shoot bows because they are better, I shoot them because they aren't.
That being said, if I had to choose between a traditional muzzle-loading flintlock and an English longbow in a fight, I'd take the bow every time. I wouldn't like taking a knee to reload for thirty seconds between shots.
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Squirrely
Maybe you could make a time machine and go back thru history to record how many have been killed with bows vs guns , the bow may still be ahead !
When you get done dreaming start another bow !
Guy
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Ha Ha yeah if I had to bring either a bow or a gun into the Jungle, I would bring a gun. But for hunting enjoyment you can't beat a bow. I bet Rambo would choose the bow over the gun though. :laugh:
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It's not even close. Firearms are far superior to bows as weapons - especially modern firearms. That's why just about every society that was exposed to firearms eventually ditched their spears, swords and bows for guns.
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Once Vampires came in the debate all credability was lost. I think both tools have there place. I usually take a gun and a bow when I ride my Unicorn into battle.
Matt
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Once Vampires came in the debate all credability was lost. I think both tools have there place. I usually take a gun and a bow when I ride my Unicorn into battle.
Matt
Blue= sarcasm, by the by.
Psssh, everyone knows that REAL operators mount MK.19's on their unicorns, usually in conjunction with ICBM-carrying humpback whales. Jeez, get a clue.
:laugh:
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There's no sence in arguing over gun vs bow. Bows are an elegant beautiful weapon that forces you to challenge your self. Guns in reality are a much more efficient way to kill an animal or a person you could be 300 yards away and still take down your target whereas a bow most people won't shoot over 25 yards at an animal not that the bow isn't capable of killing an animal from further away it's just not very accurate at further distances. Overall guns are just killing machines lol and bows are just beautiful weapons that people use for a challenge and to experience what our ancestors did 1000s of years ago
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NO VAMPIRES. so your telling me youve never been hunting in trasilvania? Anyone? SS
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There are a few real world advantages to the bow that the gun can NEVER touch. Silence being first in my mind. You can miss ( or hit ) and not vacate the area of all prey from the sound of the shot. A bow is very stealthy. Next being ammo. If i shoot a zombie in the head, I can go get my arrow and reload. I dont have to find the right caliber, buy in bulk and carry around a bunch of heavy lead. If the arrow breaks, they are not hard to make, especially in today's modern world. The other being durability in extreme environments. Wood bows dont rust. They also dont need cleaning or oiling. They wont foul up. In a long term survival situation, ( think, The Alaska Experiment ) I would LIKE a gun, but would NEED a bow.
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zomibies aswell :o now im scared :laugh: SS
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Some points
1.Sound as stated
2.Wt is also a factor. 20 miles with a gun no fun.
3. Won't jam
4. Not being banned by congress yet
5. The bow can be tossed and remade if you need to excape an area in a hurry.
6. Warm to the touch in the winter while hunting.
7. Doesn't have a safety that need to be taken off before firing.
8. Can kill deer and fish legally
9. Cost zero dollars
10 requires no background check for making one (yet)
11. Can be used to out shoot Stringman in shootin match everytime!
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Some points
1.Sound as stated
2.Wt is also a factor. 20 miles with a gun no fun.
3. Won't jam
4. Not being banned by congress yet
5. The bow can be tossed and remade if you need to excape an area in a hurry.
6. Warm to the touch in the winter while hunting.
7. Doesn't have a safety that need to be taken off before firing.
8. Can kill deer and fish legally
9. Cost zero dollars
10 requires no background check for making one (yet)
11. Can be used to out shoot Stringman in shootin match everytime!
12. 100 arrows are lighter than 50 bullets.
13. don't need a licence to own or make a bow
feel free to add to the list everyone. SS
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12. 100 arrows are lighter than 50 bullets.
That can't be right. In fact I know its not right, unless you are packing a big bore rifle. Just weighed one of my 12Ga shotgun shells and it weighs a little over 710 grains, which is comparable to a hunting arrow. Now my shotgun shell isn't the heaviest of firearm ammo, but it isn't the lightest either. Maybe in some cases 100 arrows are lighter than 50 bullets, but that is definitely not a general rule.
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12. 100 arrows are lighter than 50 bullets.
That can't be right. In fact I know its not right, unless you are packing a big bore rifle. Just weighed one of my 12Ga shotgun shells and it weighs a little over 710 grains, which is comparable to a hunting arrow. Now my shotgun shell isn't the heaviest of firearm ammo, but it isn't the lightest either. Maybe in some cases 100 arrows are lighter than 50 bullets, but that is definitely not a general rule.
i meant 100 arrows are lighter than 50 rifle bullets. and im talking about like aluminium arrows. also does anyone know how many grams=1 grain
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Have you ever tried carrying 100 arrows?
That's a lot of arrows, but its not unreasonable to carry 300 .223 rounds in 10 30rd mags.
I love both weapons and there are advantages to each, but regarding modern combat, the firearm will dominate every time.
For me, the bow is a fantastic self reliance weapon, but I'd take dang near any firearm- if I knew I was going into a firefight- before a bow
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^^^^ What he said. And if we're going on the whole zombie thing, let's say that there's someone out there who is VERY interested in whatever it is you have (food, water, ammo, etc.) and is willing to kill you for it. Me? The minute they present themselves as a threat, I'm shooting 'till slide-lock.
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^^^^ What he said. And if we're going on the whole zombie thing, let's say that there's someone out there who is VERY interested in whatever it is you have (food, water, ammo, etc.) and is willing to kill you for it. Me? The minute they present themselves as a threat, I'm shooting 'till slide-lock.
Conserve ammo. double-tap.
This argument is pointless. Bows and firearms both have their place, and the only overlap is hunting (to be differentiated from shooting meat)
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ss,
1 Gram = 15.4323584 Grains
1 Grain = 0.06479891 Gram
dpg
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it is NOT pointless SEE #11 lol
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ss,
1 Gram = 15.4323584 Grains
1 Grain = 0.06479891 Gram
dpg
thanks, SS
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Some guns can be as much fun as bows, especially if you make them yourself.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/beck%20rifle/baghornsandrifle.jpg)
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That being said, if I had to choose between a traditional muzzle-loading flintlock and an English longbow in a fight, I'd take the bow every time. I wouldn't like taking a knee to reload for thirty seconds between shots.
On the other hand, you can easily shoot from behind cover, have a range advantage (at least with a rifled piece), if using a smoothbore you can fire multible projectiles, and can punch through pretty much any body armor invented prior to kevlar. Despite repeated claims to the contrary, the best scientific tests indicate that the longbow couldn't reliably pierce contemporary armor, and I imagine that the Native American wooden armor was pretty good at stopping flint-tipped arrows.
When given the choice, people who were familiar with both seem to have sprung for the flintlock - the exceptions being the Plains Indians, who used both side by side due to an environment which made the faster firing rate of a bow a high priority.
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Some points
1.Sound as stated
2.Wt is also a factor. 20 miles with a gun no fun.
3. Won't jam
4. Not being banned by congress yet
5. The bow can be tossed and remade if you need to excape an area in a hurry.
6. Warm to the touch in the winter while hunting.
7. Doesn't have a safety that need to be taken off before firing.
8. Can kill deer and fish legally
9. Cost zero dollars
10 requires no background check for making one (yet)
11. Can be used to out shoot Stringman in shootin match everytime!
12. 100 arrows are lighter than 50 bullets.
13. don't need a licence to own or make a bow
feel free to add to the list everyone. SS
14. Impossible to shoot yourself with lol
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If our society faulted for any reason,huge solar flare .meteor strike,coldara volcanic eruption ,golbal pandemic ,atomic war ect it would be hard to make a gun out of a tree!
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I'm not trying to stir anything up here, but here's something I heard today. It's not directly related to bows, but still. "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't."
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If stealth is a primary concern, use a small caliber weapon equipped with a silencer. If corrosion is an issue, use a gun made from stainless steel. I love my bows dearly, but in a survival scenario I'll take a modern firearm over a bow any day - as long as I can find ammo :P
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Some points
1.Sound as stated
2.Wt is also a factor. 20 miles with a gun no fun.
3. Won't jam
4. Not being banned by congress yet
5. The bow can be tossed and remade if you need to excape an area in a hurry.
6. Warm to the touch in the winter while hunting.
7. Doesn't have a safety that need to be taken off before firing.
8. Can kill deer and fish legally
9. Cost zero dollars
10 requires no background check for making one (yet)
11. Can be used to out shoot Stringman in shootin match everytime!
12. 100 arrows are lighter than 50 bullets.
13. don't need a licence to own or make a bow
feel free to add to the list everyone. SS
14. Impossible to shoot yourself with lol
not true. I've seen it happen
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If our society faulted for any reason,huge solar flare .meteor strike,coldara volcanic eruption ,golbal pandemic ,atomic war ect it would be hard to make a gun out of a tree!
Yea it's been awhile since I've seen to many gun barrels growing out of the ground lol
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Very few reasons a bow is better than a gun.
1. Extra challenge and personal satisfaction. (this is reason makes it much worse in a survival sitution)
2. You can use it more safely in Urban areas
3. Cost (as long as you don't place montetary value on your time making and practicing with a bow >:D)
4. Materials are easy to come by in a long term survival situation. Currently I can buy bullets, arrows, guns, and bows at the same store.
Thats about all I come up with. It all comes down to different Strokes for different folks.
CONGRATS!!!! You both win and lose at the same time ;D ;D!!!!
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It's not even close. Firearms are far superior to bows as weapons - especially modern firearms. That's why just about every society that was exposed to firearms eventually ditched their spears, swords and bows for guns.
This..................
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It's not even close. Firearms are far superior to bows as weapons - especially modern firearms. That's why just about every society that was exposed to firearms eventually ditched their spears, swords and bows for guns.
This..................
Bows have with stood the test of time, they have been around for about 12000 years + while guns only a few hundred years. this says something to me that people are connected to the art of archery