Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Christian Soldier on March 25, 2013, 11:01:03 am
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I'm a bow guy, hands down. I love my primitive bows and I can be a little but snobby about when if the moment calls for it. :)
Recently the crossbow market has exploded and in many states (like my own) its use is legal for hunting during bow season under similar laws.
I think I'm to purists for hunting with an X bow but they are just so Cool! I've been looking at Excaliburs lately and the reliability is pretty great and being able to have firearm like accuracy at anything sub 50 yards is pretty neat too. You can also reuse your ammo almost indefinitely which is a big advantage the way ammo prices and availiability is these days.
I was thinking about getting one for target shooting and SHTF hunting or maybe squirrel hunting.
What are your thoughts on X bows and hunting with them?
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No problem with them,they just don't need to be in my bow season, ??? >:( other than that no problems. :)
Pappy
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To each his own. I have zero interest in them no matter their make up. I prefer to draw my bows.
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I see absolutely no problem with them. They are another great alternative for hunting especially in semi-rural areas where development is starting to encroach on good rifle territory. I love hunting in all its forms (all its fair chase forms I should add). I love my rifles, I love my shotgun, I love my bow, and I'm sure I'll love the crossbow I'm currently building. They all have their place in modern hunting.
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I agree with Pappy, they don't need to be used during archery season unless your disabled. If you want to use em during muzzleloader and firearm season, I'm good with that. On a side note, I also maintain the unpopular belief that in-line muzzleloaders should be restricted to rifle season. That opinion has certainly ruffled some feathers in the past! Josh
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To me a crossbow is in the "archery class" of weaponry. Crossbows work from the same propulson system and have similar cababilities and limitations to bows. They are stronger in some areas but weaker in others. They fit better in the bow season than the rifle season in my opinion.
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I have that same unpopular belief GunDoc. ;) :) We will have to agree to dis agree,a bow [at least use to be in TN. Regs] hand drawn/hand held and hand released. Cross bows in Primitive weapons or any other time you want to use them,but not in bow season. :) This is one of them topics that can go bad pretty quick so lets try and keep it nice, me included. ;) :) :) in fact especially me,I am pretty adamant about both subjects. :)
Pappy
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I make no bones about xbows. They are not primitive weapons now with the scopes, lasers, range finders, etc . I don't have a problem about people hunting with them as long they put them and the new age muzzleloaders in hunting seasons other than primitive bow seasons. I belong to the Wyoming Disabled Hunters Org. and the crossbow lets very disabled hunters to have success on deer and elk. As much as any other reason I find them bad for the hunting community is in our area they allow the poachers to kill with no sound to give them away. Two years ago I found 12 deer that had been poached and not recovered. Only one deer that had died next to the road had its horns removed. The rest became bird and coyote food! We need to respect hunters that use methods other than our own as together we are becoming an endangered group, but only if those hunters are fair chase. MY opinion! Joe
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I see no difference in accuracy in a crossbow and a modern compound. Watch some hunting videos and you will see them kill deer at 50-60 yards with a compound. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Have you ever tried to re-cock a crossbow while in a tree? Or turn around and shoot behind you in a ladder stand? Or sit and hold one on stand for hours? They are not the "weapon of mass deerstruction" like they are made out to be. If I fail to kill anything with my selfbow in the first half of this coming deer season I'll be taking mine out so I can put meat in the freezer.
Look into the Wicked Ridge line of crossbows from Ten Point. I did a lot of research into them last fall and they are about the most bang for your buck. That is the brand I ended up going with.
In my state there is only an "Archery" season. Compounds, crossbows, and primitive bows are all allowed during the entire season.
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Apparently there are a lot more folks that agree with your view slackbunny than there are that agree with me. Even my home state of KS is on the brink of allowing crossbows in the archery season. It may already be a done deal. The archery season is longer and earlier because of the considerable added challenge of using a bow. Most of us, I would assume, Bowhunt precisely for that challenge. Folks that want to use a crossbow already have a chance to do so during firearm season in most places. I see the folks wanting to use a crossbow during archery season as people who just want to game the system with whatever technological advantage they can. If you want to hunt earlier and get first dibs on that big buck or whatever it is your trying to get a head of rest of the hunters, put in your time and effort and develop the skills required to do it the hard way. That is the essence of bowhunting. I have to say, if I meet someone in the woods that's toting a compound crossbow with a scope and ten pounds of battery powered gadgets bolted to it and they refer to themselves as an archer, the chances of pleasant conversation from that point are pretty slim. Simply put, if you want to hunt bow season, use a bow. Josh
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I bought a Parker crossbow for my son 3yrs ago. He was not yet 10 and could not pull back the legal bow poundage. He hunted with it twice , Heavy,Loud and bulky. The first year they were allowed for all hunters here they sold like hot cakes, but before the season was half way over the pawnshops were full of them. People were expecting rifle like distance from them and were sadly let down. To each there own, I love shooting my traditional bows and if I ever get my primitive bow finished that will be my weapon of choice. With that being said if the game animal is taken legal and used I don't care what weapon you use. Crossbows are legal here and In my opinion are in no way detrimental to the archery season.
Matt
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Gun Doc. I guess the way I see it is that the real challenge of hunting is getting close enough to make the shot in the first place. Crossbows have a very similar effective range as compound bows, and so the difficulty level to get into shooting range is very similar. Once you actually get to that range, the shot is easier to make, but you still had to get that close. A lot of people tend to grossly overestimate what a crossbow is capable of.
But they are not primitive, never were. Crossbows came along long after we had left our primitive roots behind. They shouldn't be allowed in a "Primitive only" season, and only traditional crossbows should be allowed in a "traditional only" season. But for an archery season that allows for compound bows, crossbows should be included.
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Handguns and shotguns with buckshot have a similar range. Shall we include those as well? I have nothing against either of those either, but they don't belong in archery season.
Clint, I'm still chuckling about your post ol buddy. First you lay out a list of crossbow disadvantages in a seemingly genuine attempt to disprove that crossbows have any advantage over real bows. Then you follow that up with if you can't get it done with the bow your gonna switch to the crossbow to make sure you fill the freezer. Lol! I'm laughing with you brother! not at ya. Josh
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I hear ya Josh. I have to laugh at myself sometimes :) I have been trying to switch back and forth between a selfbow and a compound to fill my freezer each year. My thought is with the crossbow, the only thing I'm going to be drawing back is a selfbow it might help me improve with it. Trust me, I would much rather put some deer down with a piece of osage and a cane arrow. But if it gets late and the freezer is empty, I need to fill it with what ever I am most effective with. I needs my deer meat ;D
And I was comparing crossbows to compound bows. Both are the same in my book and I don't have anything against them. Both have extreme advantages over primitive gear.
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I always considered a crossbow to be more of a rifle replacement than a bow replacement for me.
I love challenge, hence the reason I started primitive archery. If I do get a crossbow, It'll be the excalibur phoenix which is a simple recurve with standard iron sights. I think wheel's on a compound design are kinda ugly and I don't like the idea of depending on a range finder all the time to use a scope.
I think having one would be really fun for target shooting.
Taking game with a crossbow still would be much more challenging than with a rifle, but probably less satisfying than a self bow.
I'm a young hunter, and I spent the past couple years huting, at least weekly, during bow season out in the woods. I have learned a ton. However, my freezer and my family really have no clue because there isn't any meat coming back.
The primitive archery purist in me keeps contradicting with the successfull teenage guy I normally am, about this crossbow thing and I'm still looking for some clarity. I'm hoping this thread will help with that. We'll see. Thanks guys for your thoughts guys :)
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I had a previous post on Primitive and Medieval types and styles of bows. I think that most bows on here are more along the lines of Medieval style archery. Lets not be mistaken with the time era the Medieval period covered which was eouropean history from the 5th until the 15th centuries. Xbows and longbows fit into that time frame.
Steel is not considered a primitive building material.! Having said that I'll just leave it at that. Before we know it "FG" stuff will start appearing on here...... >:D "NOT"
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I hate the darn things :o No really I'm okay with them except get them out of Penna. archery season. They have triggers, safty an bolts, Thats not archery. I think the bow shops have also shot them selfes in the foot with the crossguns. Before crossbows, guys were buying a new compound every few yrs need all the new whistles. Now that we have crossguns they buy one and it will be good for yrs, just like a deer rifle doesn't get replaced every couple yrs. I am into selfbows an stone points and thats my .02 worth. Wheh, made it Pappy with out getting my blood pressure up to much ;D ;D Later Bob
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You make good points GunDoc, and I understand where you are coming from, because a bow is a bow and a crossbow is a crossbow. The two are definitely different, and they can't always be treated the same. I just know that the crossbow gets a bad rap a lot of times for no good reason. Crossbow hunters have just as much right to enjoy their sport as bowhunters and firearms hunters.
When it comes down to it, I just want to be able to hunt with it all, and I don't really care how they organize the seasons for it. I just want to have the freedom to try all of these different methods for hunting.
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I enjoy hunting with a bow, and to me, that means a lightweight selfbow. It is the simplicity of it that appeals to me I guess. I have only held a couple of crossbows in my life. Both were owned by friends of mine and I respect their right to use them if they want to. I found them too heavy and cumbersome a thing for me to want to hunt with. I have found that I can usually keep my freezer stocked up with my homemade bows and arrows. Push come to shove, and I find my belly growling, I am going to the rifle. I put crossbows, compounds, firearms etc., all in the same category. The new muzzleloaders are a puzzle to me. Anything that shoots a two inch group at over a 150 yds. is hardly a primitive weapon in my book. I never understand the fish and game laws about which weapons are legal and why. It has gotten to the point that you need a lawyer to interpret this rule book that gets thicker every year. To each his own. If it's fair chase and legal, I say use what ever you please. I am pretty set in my ways and maybe a real bore to some people. I only hunt with three kinds of weapons - homemade bows and arrows, an old 30-06 bolt action, and a .22 rifle. I own several others, but that covers it for the woods.
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I personally like old crossbows(medieval style, no scope) and consider them on par with a modern or semi-modern(fiberglass) bow as long as you are hunting on foot on the ground.
Now modern crossbows are more or less rifles that shoot elongated bullets of metals with some sort of guidance.
However, as they are quiet, I personally do not like modern ones cause they let people people poach easier.
-Squirrel
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I personally like old crossbows(medieval style, no scope) and consider them on par with a modern or semi-modern(fiberglass) bow as long as you are hunting on foot on the ground.
Now modern crossbows are more or less rifles that shoot elongated bullets of metals with some sort of guidance.
However, as they are quiet, I personally do not like modern ones cause they let people people poach easier.
-Squirrel
I'm okay with crossbows for the "disabled". My uncle hunts with one because his shoulder is too damaged to draw any sort of weight. Other than that they're not legal where I live, so it's a moot point.
Squiggle, do you also dislike .22's? They are used more by poachers than crossbows are. How about trucks, since they're used to jack deer?
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I pretty much new what you meant Clint, I was just having a little fun. >:D.
Slackbunny , I don't think our views are really that far apart. I'm not trying to say that crossbows should be banned from hunting or any other means that's ethical (there's a can a worms for ya) shouldn't be used. I haven't hunted with a crossbow, but I have used most everything else. I have no problem with it being used. Just not during bow season. I think we're gonna see a lot more pressure on the deer if people don't think that they have to put in the effort to learn the neccessary skills to hunt during bow season. The states are just gonna view it as more revenue. but the guys trying to do it traditionally are gonna have a lot harder filling the freezer. After too many seasons of "tag soup" the number of traditionalist bowhunter is bound to start slipping. That would be a terrible price to pay just so people don't have to work for there goal. Josh
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I loved making my own crossbows as a child....its a tool that has always fascinated me. But weapon legislation were I live (Denmark), means that owning a crossbow will get you jailed....hell, owning a slingshot will get you in trouble.
Bows are still untouched:-)
Cheers
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In my honest opinion, i think primitive archery(bows made from natural materials not glass and such) should have an extension to the archery season, maybe a few weeks more. Then a week or two of non compound but still not primitive. Then crossbows and compounds should be able to join for the rest of archery season. It wouldn't be a big deal, just gives an edge to those who choose a harder method of hunting.
I also figure that those who are doing that type of hunting in earlier seasons could be restricted to 1-2 deer until all "archery" season is in full swing. that way theres a way of getting to the deer before the others and yet leave plenty for the rest
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In my honest opinion, i think primitive archery(bows made from natural materials not glass and such) should have an extension to the archery season, maybe a few weeks more. Then a week or two of non compound but still not primitive. Then crossbows and compounds should be able to join for the rest of archery season. It wouldn't be a big deal, just gives an edge to those who choose a harder method of hunting.
I also figure that those who are doing that type of hunting in earlier seasons could be restricted to 1-2 deer until all "archery" season is in full swing. that way theres a way of getting to the deer before the others and yet leave plenty for the rest
If someone did that, I might actually start hunting.
-Squirrel
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it would give insentive for those primitive hunters, and then those that want to shoot compound wouldnt have any changes.
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I believe crossbows have been around for thousands of years. Long before anyone posting here has been alive. I don't own one, never want one. I did shoot one twice and they do nothing for me. I fought the anti crossbow wars here in Pa when the crossbow folks were trying to get them into our Bow Season, and they won, because money talks. Far as I know the crossbow being made legal in our Pa Bow Season has not had any major impacts on our Bow Season. I am for all hunters first and if a Man wants to hunt with a crossbow then that is his God given right as long as it is legal. Is he a Bow Hunter? Hell no he is not a Bow Hunter. But who are we Traditional Guys to say what other Hunters should hunt with? If I am in a tree or ground blind with my selfbow and a guy with a crossbow or a compound is a 100 yards from me, how is he going to hurt my hunting? Be no different if there was a guy a 100 yards from me with an Osage Selfbow. If we trad guys are so pure and good at what we do, why do we need a special season? You want a special season? Come to Pa and hunt the second week of rifle Buck season, you will have the woods almost to yourself. Come to Pa and hunt the late season and you will have the woods to yourself. The deer adapt, they might change their routines after a few gun shots, but they still gotta eat and they still live out there in the woods. Real Hunters know how to kill deer. I'll not sit back and cry in my beer because some guy is hunting with a crossbow, a compound, a flintlock, or a rifle. I'll just hunt smarter and kill deer while those other guys use their high tech weapons. But when the anti hunters are trying to take away our hunting rights, I'll stand side by side with all other hunters and fight the anti hunters.
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I was a rabid anti crossbow guy when these contraptions first came on the scene. Next thing I knew they were legal during bow season in Alabama. I kept waiting for the backlash of allowing such a travesty into bow season, it never came.
I know a few crossbow guys, met a few more. Some are just intrigued with these contraptions, like having a new toy, some are completely kill orientated instead of hunt orientated, some (most)are just taking the easy way out, no skills necessary to be successful.
Bottom line, does these people's choice affect me and my osage bow mentality, not one iota so I could care less.
I do get a tinge of disgust when I hear someone say proudly on a hunting show that they got a nice buck with their "bow" and then proceed to haul out a scoped crossbow.
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In my honest opinion, i think primitive archery(bows made from natural materials not glass and such) should have an extension to the archery season, maybe a few weeks more. Then a week or two of non compound but still not primitive. Then crossbows and compounds should be able to join for the rest of archery season. It wouldn't be a big deal, just gives an edge to those who choose a harder method of hunting.
I also figure that those who are doing that type of hunting in earlier seasons could be restricted to 1-2 deer until all "archery" season is in full swing. that way theres a way of getting to the deer before the others and yet leave plenty for the rest
:o 1 or 2 deer. Ha, all anyone ever gets here is one deer maximum, and your lucky (or skilled) to get a chance. But I shouldn't complain, at least I can hunt, and I don't like venison enough to eat more than one per year.
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I don't have much of a thought about crossbows
Spend my time with selfbows don't have time for other stuff !!
I am glad to see anything that gets folks away from the junk and into reality ,and get some fresh air into their lungs !
Ohio allows all kinds of things called bows to be used from the end of sept.-the first of feb.
several weeks of various gun seasons and passes out nuisance permits by the dozen where they can use their ar15 s to fill their tags and still have to many deer to suit the insurance people so I don't think we have hurt the population to much yet !
Have fun and take a kid hunting you may save a life or a country !!
Guy