Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: karaterick on March 18, 2013, 06:43:19 pm
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Just braced my first red oak board bow and am able to reach full draw - Any critique on the tiller?
Also, do I leave it braced (strung) for awhile or take the string off while it sits?
Thanks
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I should add that I had to choke up on the handle to clear the ceiling. I guess that distorts the tiller a bit.
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always unstring wooden bows when done with them. Granted, you can keep a wooden bow braced for the purpose of stretching the string in some cases. not sure exactly how long. but dont make a habit of it. From what i can see of the bow it looks like a good tiller, if you could get a picture of the whole bow it would demonstrate the tiller better
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I don't leave my wooden bows strung more then 2 hours then I unstrung it for awhile and let it rest. The only time you should have your bow strung is if your shooting it . Or in this case still working on the bow other wise ii wanna keep the string off as much as you can. Can u get a pic of the till from directly from the side ?
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Without knowing anything about your bow it looks good.Shoot er in with about a 200 arrows checking any tiller changes as you go and finish her up.Looks nice.
Stringing time and brace heighth is up to you.I usually like about a 7" brace to the back of the handle.That's with a 1and1/2" deep handle making it about 5and1/2" to the belly of the handle.
A bow should IMO be able to withstand at least three hours at a time being braced.You'll see as time goes on how the bow fairs out for ya.If tillered good it will be a good one for ya and so far it looks good to me.
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Is this any better?
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when I first get to full brace I leave it strung and let it sweat for an hour or so, when i'm hunting it may be strung for 12 hrs and if it cant take that she don't hunt, Bub
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looks good to me! What i meant by not keeping it strung is that you wont shorten the lifespan of the bow. Keeping it strung for too long would hurt it. 12 hrs is no big deal, even 24 would be doable. but once you get towards a week of being strung it can become damaged. I think it has to do with storing the energy in the limbs for a large period of time.
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Thanks for the input guys. If she looks like she's tillered well enough then I gonna plan on finishing her up. Still have to back it, cut the rest in and stain her.
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Your tiller looks good. Only leave your bow strung when you intend to shoot it soon, ...with the possible exception of when you are just building it as part of the breaking in process.
OneBow
BTW - What's that funny looking thing hanging on the door behind you?
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Your tiller looks good. Only leave your bow strung when you intend to shoot it soon, ...with the possible exception of when you are just building it as part of the breaking in process.
OneBow
BTW - What's that funny looking thing hanging on the door behind you?
LOL! That's one of dem new fangled metal bows :)
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Good picture of it and good tiller too.Have fun.
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Looks like ya nailed her to me,nice job!
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Thanks guys!! This has been a lot of fun! Can't wait to finish her up and start a new one!!! :D
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If anything, I can say you could scrape the upper midlimb just a tiny tad. Literally spend one minute scraping - not more. It's really minor but the upper limbs seems a bit stronger. You might also consider turning the bow the other way around. It may be more balanced in the hand if you use the stiffer limb as the bottom limb. Just something to try before you remove wood.
If this is your first wooden bow, you're doing really well! Keep up the good work!
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karaterick......I wanted to mention to you there are two things that put set on a bow from use.Taking into consideration that your wood is dry and tillering is spot on.Bracing time and overdrawing.Bracing set shows over a longer period to notice but overdrawing is intstantanious.I like to have my bows braced the lowest they can shoot without the arrow nock on the string as it leaves the bow and into paradox.This will get the most string travel out of your bow to your arrow.
Your bow is a pretty good looking bow for your first one.
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Well, not that I should feel ashamed to be such a nincompoop, but what exactly is set?
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Also, since I haven't backed my bow yet, is it too late to use a wood backing since the limbs already are curved? I think I should probably back it, but even though it's my first bow I want it to look nice.
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That's a damn fine bow for a first or the 100th! What's the weight on that thing? looks pretty stout in the pics. Is there some reason why you think it needs a backing? If you put a wood backing on it you're going to have to tiller it all over again. You could back it with linen or silk and not have to re-tiller (DON'T go for the f#%&*glass drywall tape). Good job on your first. We all know we'll be seeing more from you because you're hopelessy addicted now. You can never build just build one.
Set is when the bow is still curved toward the string when you unbrace it. (also could be called string follow- although there'll be some that will tell you they aren't exactly the same thing- just related is all). Show us an unbraced pic and we'll be able to tell how much set it took (assuming it was perfectly straight when you started). Also, a back profile view would also be useful.
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I don't blame you for wanting your bow to look nice,and I think since your bow has'nt broke yet there is a need for a backing.You hav'nt mentioned what you want to back your bow with[snake skin etc.].Set happens and that's all there is to it.You can compensate for it by starting with some reflex on your bow before tillering.Since we hav'nt seen the bow at rest we can't see how much set the bow has.Set is how far your limb tips have moved towards you at rest from where you started tillering your bow from.If you are unfamiliar with the archery terms and language you might want to get familiar with that.Chances are you have a fine bow there.
Sorry I see randman has explained things pretty well to you.
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I'm almost sorry for mentioning set to you to worry about.For now it looks like you have caught on to the tillering phase of bow making and that is very very important.
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This should show the set. Not sure if it's excessive or not.
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Don't look to bad to me,especially if it was just flat to start with no reflex,great looking first bow,very nice job. :)
Pappy
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Thanks!! It was pretty much completely flat. Measurement from each limb to the floor is about 2" now.
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A little set is unavoidable and some would argue beneficial. If the limbs take no set they are probably too massive IMO. My sweetest shooters have a little string follow. Heat treat a little reflex into them.
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My next step is still what I am going to do about backing. I want wood, but not if I have to re-tiller. I would be tempted to just have no backing, stain the bow and call it a day, but there was a little runoff on the grain. I don't think it was real bad, but I would hate to come this far and loose the bow.
My other alternative is probably just cotton or brown paper. Not what I wanted, but I may not have a lot of options at this point..
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That's special. Set looks quite acceptable and even if it were not I'd tell you to enjoy your bow. The time to back it is before you string it for the first time. So you are done. Nice job. Tiller is excellent. Enjoy.
I wish to call your attention to one thing for future reference. How did we know the top limb needed some scrapes? Look at the handle. Top is tipping towards you. After awhile you'll be able to tell if your bow is well tillered just by drawing it and sensing handle pressure. When I go out to test shoot it for the first time I pay particular attention to that handle pressure not even worrying yet about how the arrow flies.
Have fun.
Jawge
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Thanks George!
One more question - How far do I cut my arrow rest above center of the handle. How deep should I cut it and how high?
Thanks
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there is no need to back that, great job on your first, as far s a rest go an inch and a half above center, and you don't have to cut one in, you can do a floppy rest, builtup leather or half a golf tee head will all work great just get the handle comfy first
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This thing is a shoota'!!! I cut the rest then went out and fired some arrows into (through) some hay bails. I have to say I can not believe how straight this bow shoots or how hard it hits. Can't believe I made this out of a plank of wood. I AM HOOKED!!!!! ;D
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...and a nuther one bites the dust!
a nuther one bites the dust!
a nuther one bites the dust!
...and a nuther one down, and a nuther one down
...and a nuther one bites the dust!
OneBow
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Just checked on you here karaterick and saw your picture of your bow at rest.Like the other fellas have said that's pretty darn good from being flat to start with,no heat treatment,and the kicker your first bow.
They are fun to shoot when they're made from your own two hands.Congradulations!!Now you can doll er up the way you want.I'm sure we'll be hearing from you again with another bow.
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looks good to me! What i meant by not keeping it strung is that you wont shorten the lifespan of the bow. Keeping it strung for too long would hurt it. 12 hrs is no big deal, even 24 would be doable. but once you get towards a week of being strung it can become damaged. I think it has to do with storing the energy in the limbs for a large period of time.
I unstring as soon as I am done shooting. If I am hunting for an entire day that is the only time it is strung all day. Except when I am eating lunch then I unstring the bow for a while. I have shot my current selfbow since Jan 1st and it has lost 2.5 lbs of draw weight. The longest it has been strung is 4 hours. I would think 24 hrs would make the bow lose cast.
Greg
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Don't cut an arrow rest! With my present bow the arrow rest is my hand. The top of the leather covering is the only rest. I suggest a couple of leather wedges for you. I put my arrow rest 1.25 in above center. I figure that's putting it right about at center of the string with my 3 finger draw but I've been known to vary that depending upon tiller. IfI think the lower limb is too weak I'll lower that value a tad. Handle info onmy site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/leatherhandle.html
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Thanks again. I had already cut the rest before you posted George - Just applied the first coat of stain -
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Oooo,looks pretty deep,wear safety glasses!
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that's not deep enough to be super worried about, i would be worried if it was over half.
On top of that, the grain isn't superb, but it seems like its done the job! congrats! make sure to seal it well with something like wax or something, you want a water sealant just so that when you shoot during humid or raining days it doesn't absorb a BUNCH of moisture and take even more set. Any sealant will work i suppose, ive used deck sealant and it works fine, repels the water, but will only slow water vapor.
But if its all the same to you, i suggest wearing safety glasses until you've got about 200 arrows through it.
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Looks real nice, especially for a first bow. You did a fine job on your tiller. Congratulations and welcome to the pursuit!
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Great 1st bow. Well done.
A couple of points - you really don't need to cut in an arrow shelf or even add one to the side of the bow. If you put any sort of a handle on it then simply build up the top edge a little as a reference point for the arrow. Shelves etc don't inherantly make a bow more accurate. Accuracy really comes down to good technique on your part and a good set of well matched arrows. Cutting a shelf in as far as you have done is on the verge of being very risky - it's all to do with the nature of wood and how it can split along the fibers. For now I would recommend wrapping it with strong cord and soaking it in superglue. Then put a handle on.
When it comes to sealing the bow then beware that not all finishes are anywhere near equal. Look for 'outdoor use' on the tin as a minimum! 2 part 'epoxy' type varnishes are the best.
When selecting your next board then look for totally straight lines on every face of the board....and keep looking until you find one! Reject anything else. If you have to use an iffy board then back it before bending it. Rawhide, leather, linen cloth, silk etc are all good backings but still always strive for the best/straightest board in the first place.
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Thanks guys. I didn't back it because I didn't realize I had to back it before I tillered so can't do much about it now I guess and if the rest is questionable then I don't want to chance anything.
To be honest, since I got to shoot it and it did so well and I can say I did it. I have no problem stringing this one up and making it a decorative bow. Last thing I want is to have it break after all the work I've done. Great learning experience and I can proudly hang it on the wall and make my next bows "shooters"
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the only problem i could see with the rests is if you have gone TOO deep, which it doesnt look like you have. AND make sure you round the corners left by cutting out the rest, the back of the bow should have NO sharp corners whatsoever! This is what leads to splinters, i think that it will be fine, but it depends on how you really want to go about keeping it. Either way its still a good learning experience like you said. Ive made 2 bows with rests like this, both of them held up at the handle because it was stiff and because there was still enough wood. the one that did break was due to the fact that i removed wood from the BACK of the bow so i wound up with a concave area on the back, making it very weak. my fault for shaping the handle too much on the back.
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I was wondering how my rest was so deep when I know I measured 1/2" so I just got around to verifying and it is cut exactly 1/2" in. Bow is 1 1/2" wide at the handle. I did round the handle out a bit on the edges, but from the widest point there's still 1 1/2" of wood there. So I'm wondering is it a bit of an illusion did I still take the rest in too deep?
I will need to know for my next bow.
Thanks
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I don't think your rest looks to bad. I made 1 bow with a cut out arrow shelf and I was told that 1/4" deep is a good depth to go for a self/long bow. You want the cut to be deep enough to juuuuuuuuuust keep the arrow shaft in place without issue.
On another note, your bow is looking nice. Did you do anything to make the grain pop-out like they do!? That is an awesome look.
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Nice looking bow - the stain color is really a good color and shows off that grain. Looks to me like the shelf will be alright. Some people like to cut in a shelf others don't (like you already has seen by the posts :laugh:). You will just have to decide for yourself if you want to cut if shelves or not - do what works for you and what you like. The bows that I have made I do not. I usually built up a shelf on the side of the handle using leather - like many guys do - or use a piece of leather for a "flibber" style rest.
Just curious - what type of finish are you going to use after your done staining?
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Thanks guys. I used Minwax Special Walnut for my stain. I actually put on another coat and it is much darker now than in the pics. It's still drying so hopefully it will still look good.
I was going to spray Cabot Gloss Polyurethane, but I should ask if that's acceptable for a bow as I really don't know.
Any advice on that would be helpful as well.
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The poly will work. The gloss will make it shiny - if you don't like that you can dull it down with some fine sandpaper or steel wool.