Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Zion on March 17, 2013, 11:23:23 pm
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I harvested this piece about a month ago and let it quick dry in the wind and sun. Seemed to have worked pretty good, tho some drying checks in the handle. Lightly heat-treated.
75# @ 24"
Probably 58-59" ntn
THO all my arrows have broken and i only have 2 that are functional, it's shooting reeaaal good. Might take the place of my apple longbow, we'll see >:D
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S'more:
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Looks pretty schmexay to me. any full legth pics of it unbraced?
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Thanks man. I just took one. Probably crappy quality lol. You can see the awesome shape to it and it's all natural too!
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kinda looks like my insanity stave that ive got. just reverse the bow and thats what mine looks like, with a buch of reflex... nice bow. id shoot it if it were mine.
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Sweet lookin bOw for only drying a month it didn't take much string follow
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Totally awesome in every way.
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Nice bow.
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Thanks guys! Yeah i was really surprised it didn't take a bunch of set. You'd expect that with this design and the weight. It did take on one small chrysal due to some ignorance in tillering. With these things you have to make sure there's no irregularities on the surface or else they'll chrysal like crazy even if the tiller is perfect ( at 90# anyway, serviceberry is a very strong wood in compression and tension but when you really push it it tends to fail in compression.)
Lol Muffin hopefully you'll be able to shoot that bow someday. Then you can make fun of all the normal bows ::)
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NICE BOW! But those are some big tips on it!
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Awesome Zion, I bet making and shooting those heavy bows is great training for your wrestling. Good to see a young fella these days doing more than sitting on his backside. Steve
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Did a service berry bow myself. Glad t have it come in @ 33#. Can't imagine the attention to details you must have to get this one done.
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Looks awesome, I love the primitive look of all your bows.
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Another beauty Zion. Nobody on here can critique your bows cuz they always have perfect tiller. All we can do is drool....90# Holy Crap Boy! I'm a big guy, 6'1" 200lbs and I can barely string a 70# let alone pull the thing to my 28" draw length. I'd sure hate to have to meet you on the wrestlin mat. Any of those guys you wrestle with know what you do on the side for your hobby?
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Zion how do you get your draw weight measurements?
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Nice bend on that bow Zion and real cool primitive looker too. How narrow is it at the arrow pass? Looks like it would be a weak spot there but I hear that hawthorne is some strong stuff. I was eyeing some hawthorne in the woods saturday but unfortunately I can't
cut any trees down there, public land and not allowed.
Really like these bows you've been making. 8)
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great job Zion,
dang....kinda gives a new definition to "a kids bow" :)
maybe for us grampas we need to label ours as oldfarts bows
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Another beauty Zion. Nobody on here can critique your bows cuz they always have perfect tiller. All we can do is drool....90# Holy Crap Boy! I'm a big guy, 6'1" 200lbs and I can barely string a 70# let alone pull the thing to my 28" draw length. I'd sure hate to have to meet you on the wrestlin mat. Any of those guys you wrestle with know what you do on the side for your hobby?
X2
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Thanks guys!
Yeah it is good training especially for my shoulders when shooting, + all the work it takes to harvest these darn things. 5 miles for 2 sticks usually lol.
Thanks Majsnuff, it's a great wood but it can be tricky getting the higher weights out of them without chrysals.
Thanks Jmilbrandt
Thanks Randman, it's all about the training methods! Somebody can be bulky but if you don't condition the muscles than their pretty much useless lol. One of my assistant coaches knows i make bows and i think he has a relative that does too.
Pearl i use a bathroom scale with a stick that shows drawlengths at inch incraments. I put the string on the top of the stick and pull the bow down. I read the weight. That's the weight of my bow when drawn. (I know it's accurate because i use it to make sure i make my weight.)
Thanks Greg, it is pretty narrow at the arrow pass. But the wood on this piece is very strong so hopefully it won't blow up too soon ::) Just sneak in at night and cut em ;D
Thanks Coaster!
VMB do u think their too big? I could always narrow them down more. I put a pic in for reference.
Thanks for the comments guys i appreciate it!
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And thanks RichardZane ;D
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Thanks guys!
Pearl i use a bathroom scale with a stick that shows drawlengths at inch incraments. I put the string on the top of the stick and pull the bow down. I read the weight. That's the weight of my bow when drawn. (I know it's accurate because i use it to make sure i make my weight.)
I dont think that is going to give you an accurate measurement matey. It is a sweet looking bow but there just doesnt seem to be enough wood there for the 90lbs. I maybe completely wrong but just seems very high for the profile.
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How should i weigh it then? I don't have any other kind of scale. What would make it innaccurate? ???
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How should i weigh it then? I don't have any other kind of scale. What would make it innaccurate? ???
Grab a fishing scale or even some decent luggage scales. The bow handle should be on something solid, a block on a wall or a block nailed to a tree, pulley on the floor maybe. Guess I am saying tillering tree ;)
If I am wrong then apologies in advance and I need to wonder why all of my bows are very light for around the same looking mass as yours.
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Would be handy if you could weigh the bow its self and let us know how heavy it is, mass seems to be pretty predictable according the the mass theory which always seems to point me in the right direction.
Once again its a lovely bow.
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Ok i weighed it with the string, i believe it's somewhere around .5 lbs, very hard to tell tho, i could easily be wrong.
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Zion, I love your bows for their simplicity. Like you could just take them out into the woods, bang them against trees and rocks, and still go out and kill something with them. Your tiller is always right on, and you make them out of wood that you harvest yourself! That's what primitive archery is all about in my opinion. I appeciate the fact that you at such a young age have such a passion for this craft, and share your work with all of us. Please keep it up! Dale
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Awesome bow. I dont ever comment and I say this is a awesome bow. I would say that it is quite possible for the bow to be 90# at 24. Most of these style bows were that or even higher. You get more bang for your buck with the gullwing and handle style. I am sure that it could handle taking down a buffalo easy with one or two shots. 8)
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Zion I use a digital bow scale that is +/- 1#. We also have a nice digital bathroom scale. I will check one bow both ways and let you know what I find out.
An 80-90# bow takes one heck of an arrow buddy, you can easily get hurt shooting 80-90# bows without shafts in the appropriate range. Its different than plinking around with 40-60# bows.
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Ok i weighed it with the string, i believe it's somewhere around .5 lbs, very hard to tell tho, i could easily be wrong.
Thanks for that. I had problems weighing my bows as I didnt have any scales that were light enough, found a set at my local supermarket that were perfect and cheap. I dont think your scales are fine enough to weigh the bow as .5 8 ounce is very light indeed.
If you ever come across a set that will weigh lighter objects please let me know what it weighed. Either way great bow,.
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nice bow i like the primitive look.
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I used to weigh my bows the way you've been doing and when I met someone with an accurate scale I was shocked to find out all my bows were about twenty pounds lighter then I thought. I agree it would be hard to get an accurate weight using that method.
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Thanks for the comments!
thanks for the nice words Dale
Thanks Horse Thief Killer. Yeah it's one of my best shooters for sure.
Pearl I guess i should buy a digital scale. I saw a video on Youtube and the guy from Boarrior Bows showed weighing a bow with the bathroom scale vs the hanging scale and there was like a 2-3# difference. For me that's a not significant to worry about sense i don't really care about the numbers. All my arrows have seemed to do fine, should i get higher spines?
Thanks Dwardo, if i got a digital scale it would be way easier to read anyway lol.
Thanks Danny
Jmilbrandt did you weigh it by pulling the bow down with the handle resting on the stick or the other way around? You'll get 20 lbs heavier if you weigh it pulling down that way.
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I kind of have trouble believing the draw weights of your posts Zion.
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Oh come on Zion 90# @ 24........... ;D You probably don't know your own strenght.! That bow has to be around 110# ::) :o 8)
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Well i'm just posting what my scale is telling me. Not trying to lie and look like a badass. I guess since my weighing methods are innacurate all i know is that my bows are heavy. I work with a lot of heavy weights and some of my bows are a challenge so I know i'm not ripping you guys off with 40 pounders. I don't even care anyway. They shoot good and i know they can kill quite a few things. I think too much time can be spent brooding over numbers.
Thanks bow101. I'm not quite up that far yet lol.
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Yeah your bows are great at any weight Zion. Keep signin up for the bow trade so I can keep hopin to get my hands on a Zion bow some day.. >:D You are in the bow trade this year aren't ya?
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I agree with you Zion I never used to weigh my bows until I started posting them. Lighter or heavier you make some beautiful bows and I hope we see more of them. ;)
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Nice looking bow young man. :)
Pappy
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Your bows are all tillered great, that's all that matters in any bow from anybody. The important part about fairly accurate numbers is the fact LOTS of people learn from you, whether you believe it or not. Your age doesn't have anything to do with teaching or spreading your knowledge around. It gets soaked up.
I did the little test I mentioned in an earlier post. My digital bow scales got 32.2# @ 20", my digital bathroom scales said 38.4# @ 20. I know both scales are accurate within a pound. My guess is bathroom scales are "feeling" for a different weight dispersion and give a wacky number when scaling bows with a stick on center.
Get ya' some spring scales and keep truckin' Zion!
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Love the bows your puttin out man!
Looks a bit like the ERC "Knothead" profile I'm workin on.
If I can get a bow over 50# I am happy so far ;)
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you are a really talented young bowyer Zion, I love your work. I myself have tried some serviceberry - with no good results. Maybe it is the Europian stuff, always propeller and kind soft, one chrysaled badly.
But I'm also with some others here to get that heavy load out of that piece is really unbelievable
Anyways the bow looks very good and you should proud of it even if it is of lower weight.
Keep on going!
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I love your bows and passion in building them, and if you go buy pearlie's test your still lookin' at 85#, some of these guys are just jealous cause they cant draw that heavy of a bow ::) >:D
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Thanks guys.
Thanks randman. I actually didn't sign up for the bow trade lol, sorry to dissapoint ya!
Thanks Jmilbrandt
Thanks Pappy
Thanks for your words Pearl, that's interesting. I guess the bathroom scales just don't like weighing bows lol. ;D Yeah i'll buy a spring scale, could probably end up handy when i'm tillering bows anyway.
Thanks Dubois, i love these profiles! I hope that bow turns out for ya.
Thanks Simson, yeah all the Serviceberry here is all twisted too. Ya just have to do treat it special, and it can do crazy things! If not it'll chrysal and crack and take a bunch of set lol. But keep trying it, once ya get it figured out it's an amazing bow wood!
LOl thanks Bub. Well i'm jealous of the guys that can pull 200 lbs! I can do 200 lbs in some weightlifting, but i think if i were to try pulling a heavy warbow i'd s**t myself! ;D :-[
I guess this mean's i've been ripping you guys off with the weight of my bows. Really sorry about that, not trying to lie, that's just what my scale's been telling me :( . Im glad that i can try building way heavier bows now tho.
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I love your bows Zion and THAT one is AWESOME!
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IO for one don't feel ripped off or lied to Zion....just in awe of your skills. I can learn a lot by just looking at your bows. Did you have an uncle or your dad show you about wood workin stuff or did you just get interested and start doin it on your own? Little bow makin prodigy right there.....showin us old guys how it's done.......
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I guess this mean's i've been ripping you guys off with the weight of my bows. Really sorry about that, not trying to lie, that's just what my scale's been telling me :( . Im glad that i can try building way heavier bows now tho.
I dont think that mate and no-one here does. As PD says its all about communication via the web. We dont have the luxury of being able to see each others work in the flesh which is a real shame and pictures only say so much.
For instance if you had a faulty ruler (long stretch i know) we would all be wondering why you can make a bow that's only 30" long that draws to 30" When we need a bow much longer to achieve similar results.
A good set of accurate scales can help you know when your bow is starting to take set way before your eyes see it in the unbraced profile.
For poor saps like me who have never seen another bowyers product in real life the help that this place gives me is invaluable.
So what are you working on now? :D
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I had a bathroom scale for a while and it was giving me wildly inaccurate readings on my bows. I bought a nice 100# spring scale on amazon for $25 and it's made a huge difference in my bow making and is very helpful on the tillering tree. (just remember to factor in the weight of the hanging scale) I agree with PD, I don't think you are intentionally trying to decieve anyone but he's right in that we all have an obligation to do our best to post accurate results because people are learning from us whether we realize it or not.
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Thanks guys, i'm gonna buy a spring scale that goes up to like 180# (just in case i feel ambitious ;D ;D.)
Nope randman but my dad told me a long time ago that a guy at work told him that Ocean Spray is what the natives used to use around me. So i learned how to identify it and made my first couple of bows out of it. They still shoot today, (5 years later) which goes to show how strong the stuff is...
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Dude, you could tiller phone poles if you wanted to.
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I bought a digital hanging scale off eBay for about 8 bucks including shipping. It works great. It has two hooks so it made using a pulley system really easy, and safe,
I had a bow blow once when I was still using a tillering tree with grooves that the string goes into. That was the last time I used it.
Patrick
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Thanks guys. I've got a good scale now so that's good. Yeah i only use a tillering tree if the bow i'm working on is really heavy or really wonky or something.
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Mmmmm based on my findings, my bathroom scale shows about 4-6 pounds less than actual weight comparing to the health ones that use the sliding weights. How do I know,? by weighing myself... ;)
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Since you seem to have a lot of weights Zion, , attach 90# to the string (i use a strong bag filled with dumbells) and hang a tape measure from the handle. Pull up, do it slow so there is NO bounce. If the bag lifts at 24", you're golden. Obviously don't pull it past your draw, just adjust the weights in the bag to get that string back to 24". Not the greatest method, but I don't have a good tillering tree setup and pulling down on the bathroom scale seemed really sketchy to me.
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yeah i've heard of that technique before, but as i said before i now have a good fish scale which i can easily weigh my bows with, so i'm just gonna stick to that. I have about 140 lbs to deal with so if the scale breaks i will try that.
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So, with your new scale, what does this bow have for draw weight?
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Awesome bow!
I really love the primitive look and the knot in the handle.
Kevin
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Adb i measured it a while back but i believe it was between 75# and 80# (with the good scale). So decent but not as much as the crappy scale said.
Thanks Buffalo, this is still one of my favorite shooters.
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Adb i measured it a while back but i believe it was between 75# and 80# (with the good scale). So decent but not as much as the crappy scale said.
Thanks Buffalo, this is still one of my favorite shooters.
Still pretty heavy I can't shoot a bow that heavy comfortably at all. between 50-60 pounds is my comfort zone and where I try to keep all of my bows at