Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Prarie Bowyer on March 13, 2013, 12:39:41 am
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Grrrr...
I can't seem to to get to dimensiton that resemble a long bow in three layers with out the built up grip area.
What the heck is it with me? I'm getting closer.
What I'm aiming for is a simple bamboo backed "sumptin (purple hear, bamboo, yellow heart, Ipe... ) with a hickory or Ipe belly. No extra clump glued on for the handle. Unstrung should look like a stick.
I'm getting closer but how the heck are those other guys getting there. I feel like I get so much extra strength from my glue lines that I build a club.
So if anyone is willing to share dimentions and thicknesses of laminations that would be lovely.
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Backing upto 1/4 thick, core upto 1/8th, belly thick enough to make the total thickness upto 3/4 - 7/8th at the handle.
Gluelines DO NOT add stiffness, if we are talking about a standard glue-up then thickness determines overall stiffness. Remember to double a bows draw weight you only have to increase the thickness by an 1/8th.
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What about gluing in reflex?
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What about it?
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Thoughts?
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I feel like there is a question missing, was it - how much weight would be gained by re-flex?
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Thoughts?
Too much reflex on a bow of this sort will lose weight as the wood will give up if overdone. It also really effects stability in an ipe belly bow as it often wants to cast off to the side. With a heavy laminated longbow, I have found a little reflex goes a long way. Say 1" or so.
I made a 4 growth ring ash/mass160lb longbow with a straight glue up and it didn't follow the string over much.
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I've also found heavy draw weight bows to be rather unstable with even a little bit of reflex. I had to abandon an ipe bellied tri-lam cuz I added a bit of reflex, and I couldn't brace it early on without it rolling over. Shame, it was looking like a decent bow. From now on, no reflex on warbows for me.
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The other guys have covered it!
I have many,many thoughts about reflex....
Specificity is a great thing when it comes to asking questions ;)
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I've also found heavy draw weight bows to be rather unstable with even a little bit of reflex. I had to abandon an ipe bellied tri-lam cuz I added a bit of reflex, and I couldn't brace it early on without it rolling over. Shame, it was looking like a decent bow. From now on, no reflex on warbows for me.
Were you trying to brace it at a low brace? I find any narrow profiled reflexed bow can be ustable, regardless of draw weight. You gotta give it a high enough brace to be stable from the start. It probably is more unstable the higher the draw weight though. The way I tiller a bow like this, is to use a mirror, step on the tillering string, and pull up. That way you can hold the bow stable when drawing it, until you get it to a high enough brace height to be stable and it wants to calm down and be a bow.
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The other guys have covered it!
I have many,many thoughts about reflex....
Specificity is a great thing when it comes to asking questions ;)
What if there is information that i could use and don't ask THAT question. Basically I was getting at is it necessary?
I finished the bow up with about 2.5" of deflex... glued it up flat. Next one I'll thicken the core... thin the belly at the center and glue in about 2" of reflex if using Hickory sap wood.
Ipe dosen't need it I know.
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I've also found heavy draw weight bows to be rather unstable with even a little bit of reflex. I had to abandon an ipe bellied tri-lam cuz I added a bit of reflex, and I couldn't brace it early on without it rolling over. Shame, it was looking like a decent bow. From now on, no reflex on warbows for me.
Thats strange you mentioned "Roll over" adb. I always wondered 'bout it but never did ask anyone on here... ;D Have you ever had a standard type bow roll over on you..? ???
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Nope.
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I've also found heavy draw weight bows to be rather unstable with even a little bit of reflex. I had to abandon an ipe bellied tri-lam cuz I added a bit of reflex, and I couldn't brace it early on without it rolling over. Shame, it was looking like a decent bow. From now on, no reflex on warbows for me.
Thats strange you mentioned "Roll over" adb. I always wondered 'bout it but never did ask anyone on here... ;D Have you ever had a standard type bow roll over on you..? ???
I frequently roll over the bamboo recurves I make, they are for little kids, they pull around 15-20 pounds, are bamboo, 2 layers.
If I make the limbs too narrow and the recurve too severe, I generally end up with a twisted piece of crud.
If I make the limbs wide enough, they shoot good.
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Hi
What would be the best combination for a trilam?
I think hick-osage-osage!
What Do you guys think?
Greetings
AndiE
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Depends on what you're trying to achieve. I don't think there's a 'best' combo for a tri-lam, but there are many very good combos.
Hick/osage/osage would be a tri-lam, but not a good one IMHO. One of the nice things about a tri-lam is the contrast in the colors of the different types of wood, and the combo you suggest would simply look like a bi-laminate bow. If you had two thinner pieces of osage you wanted to use up, this would be a good option, but there are much better options for a nice tri-lam longbow.
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Maple and white oak lams are good. Maple for back & belly oak core. Never built a warbow. Thickness. I don't know try about .600 thou" ??? It may get you about 80#
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.6 thousands of an inch??? I make my lams usually 1/4".
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Yes you are correct. Getting confused on these fractions. Really meant to say inch " not Thou. :)
Bingham Projects chart.
eg. 68" longbow , 50# , .389"
Bingham project charts correspond to their kits.
*all variables taken into consideration, riser lenght, wood used, etc.....etc....
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0.6" would be too thick. Like I mentioned, I usually make my lams 0.25". 0.6" would be about right for the belly wood however.
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0.6" would be too thick. Like I mentioned, I usually make my lams 0.25". 0.6" would be about right for the belly wood however.
Ya lost me, I meant total stack ...like in total thickness of a Tri Lam, 4 lams 5 lams whatever.
Bingham Projects chart.
eg. 68" longbow , 50# , .389"
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Isn't Bingham all about FG bows and laminations using FG??
0.389" is about 3/8" and that won't make a 68" 50# wooden bow.
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0.389" is about 3/8" and that won't make a 68" 50# wooden bow.
Mmm so how much..?
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That's a very difficult question to answer. There is no secret formula in bow making with wood.
For a FG bow, you make it a specified thickness, shape, and width, and you get a predictable result. Not so with wooden bows. Depends on the wood, depends on the design, depends on what you want as a final result. I can't offer you a secret formula, or a specific thickness... they don't exist.
I think if I had three different bows, all with similar designs, and perhaps even with the same wood (or wood combinations), that they would all end up with different thickness dimensions. Wood is a natural material, and even wood of the same species will have variable densities. For me, that's part of the joy... not knowing... not being able to predict the final outcome with exact certainty.
You could probably end up close to 50# using hickory backed ipe and making it a pyramid bow with wide flat limbs, but it would be a gamble at 3/8" total thickness. I would definitely start thicker and tiller to desired effect.
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Sounds good, I think that pretty well wraps it up. I'll try to keep it on the heavy side over 3/8" total thickness for sure.
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The ELB im making will be a bamboo back, osage core, lemonwood belly. im doing it on a longbow making course on the 17th of may should be fun. SS
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I think you'd do better to have the osage on the belly, but that's just me.
When are you going to post a bow for us Squirrelly? You sure talk about making them lots ;) :P
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Well im doing the bow makin course on the 17th so I guesse some time around then. Im also waiting for my maple to dry and ive got 14 exams coming up these next 2 months. But after that when its the summer ill be a bow makin machine! SS
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Who's running the bow making course? Bickerstaffe? Stratton?
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Its run by a guy called will lord. SS