Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 11:28:07 am

Title: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 11:28:07 am
Hello,

Just wanted to introduce myself.
My name is Tony and Ive been interested in making My own bow for several years,( about time I got started)........

I live in NE TN. Hopefully Ill get some good advice here.
Looking forward to the experience.

Now for My first question.
What is the best wood for a clueless beginner to start with??
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: a finnish native on October 30, 2007, 11:32:10 am
HI there! The folks here are helpful so youll be in good hands. The wood thing depends on what you have available. Ash is good, hickory, osage, oak etc.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 11:45:01 am
I live on about 200 acres of TN mountain so I have plenty of oak and maple.
I'm wondering though if I might not be better off starting with a precut stave???
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: jamie on October 30, 2007, 11:51:15 am
welcome aboard theres a lot of fellas from tenn. on this site. im sure one of em will be poppin in soon. peace
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: DanaM on October 30, 2007, 11:51:36 am
Welcome to PA Tony, before starting on a bow be warned its very addicting ;D
For a first bow I would recommend a red oak board for Home Depot, Lowe's etc.
Not only are they cheap they are already dry. Most Likely the grain won't be perfect so I would suggest
backing it with linen, silk or heavy paper even. As you get some experience by all means move on to hickory, osage, locust etc.
Find some likely trees get them cut and split so they will begin to dry. Also do some research there are some great sites on-line and
also would recommend Traditional Bowyers Bible Vol 1 for a start or The Bent Stick by Paul Comstock and of course a subscription to
Primitive Archer magazine after all they make this site possible(shameless plug for PA ;))
Seeing as your in Tennesse your close to Pappy's place and some other good bowyers, if you can hook up with one of them and
you will be in good hands.

http://mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni/archer.html

http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/snakeskinbacking.msnw

Good luck and keep us posted eh
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: deerhunter97370 on October 30, 2007, 11:53:39 am
Welcome Slaughter, I would suggest buying a copy of the Traditional Bowyer's Bible Volumes 1,2,and3 if you dont already have them. From what Ive read like finnish said Ash and hickory are good starting woods. I my self started with Pacific Yew only because I can get it for free from a logger friend.

Joel
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 11:55:47 am
Thanx all,
Dana is there anything specific I should look for in a board? Dimensions etc.
 Also I suppose I should mention Im interested in making a short bow (plains Indian style)
as that might make a difference.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 11:56:56 am
 ;D Ive already ordered all 3 volumes.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: DanaM on October 30, 2007, 12:26:40 pm
With a board its all about the grain check the sites I linked and you will see what I mean.
Glad to hear that you have TBB ordered.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 12:47:32 pm
Thanx again Dana.
Im looking at those sites now.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Pat B on October 30, 2007, 12:50:46 pm
Welcome Tony. All the advise so far is good. Check out Jawge's site. (Dana gave you the link). Jawge goes into all aspects of grading the board through tillering and everything in between.  Please ask all the questions you may have and we will do our best to answer them for you.
   Even though you want to build a short plains type bow, build a few regular size bows first to get the hang of shaping and tillering and woodwork with hand tools in general. This will make it less stressful for you and give you a better chance at success when you start your shorty bow.        Pat
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 12:53:22 pm
Thanx Pat, Ill do that....Im looking at the board grading stuff as we speak.

Hopefully Ill find someone here from my neck of the woods.Id really like to see the process first hand.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on October 30, 2007, 12:55:01 pm
Thanks, pat and Dana. Slaughter I'f go ahead and cut a small sapling of 2-3 inches. Oak would be great. I'll get the directions. While your waiting for it to dry out. Make a board bow. jawge
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on October 30, 2007, 12:56:37 pm
Sapling bows are a pretty neat way to start. Double you draw and add 20- 25% for a length. Pick a nice straight hardwood such as hickory, ash maple, hop hornbeam, etc. Avoid osage, mulberry and black locust. These are woods that function best with heartwood backs and a sapling wouldn't have enough heartwood. Look for a sapling 2-3 inches or so. Choose the best side for the back. Knots and imperfections on the back are to be avoided. Mark 2 lines down the length of the stave to delineate back from belly. Remove the bark Remove the belly wood with a hatchet. Mark a 4 inch handle length- 2 inches on either side of the middle. Leave that area alone while tillering. Hack away the belly wood with a hatchet. You can narrow the stave to 1.5 in wide to just past mid limb.. I use the hatchet. Drawknife too. Leave the handle full width for now Taper the width to 1 inch nocks. Later make them 1/2 inch. Begin to floor tiller the stave. Just start the wood bending. That will make it thinner and less likely to warp as it dries. Let it do so. You can check periodically with a moisture meter. 6-10% is good depending on the wood type. Hickory likes 6-8%.  You can also monitor the weight of the stave with a scale. Follow the Bow Making Directions on my site. Jawge
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 12:58:59 pm
I'mone step ahead of you I have a split oak stave and a maple stave drying already......... I'm not sure if they are worth using  ??? But Ive got em..
but I was thinking the board bow might be a better place to start in the interim.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 01:03:21 pm
Thanx Jawge,
I appreciate the info.
Ive bookmarked your site for easy reference<g>
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: GregB on October 30, 2007, 02:21:24 pm
Hello Tony,
Lot of good advice and suggestions already given to you. Pappy and I both live in Clarksville, Tn. (Montgomery County). Would like to invite you to the Tn. Classic in May held on Pappy's farm. We get into some bow making during the weekend and actually a few days prior. Last year there were several from PA that came to the shoot, and expect even more in 2008. You could probably make a trip prior to the shoot if you'd like, and Pappy and/or I would be glad to show you some of what we do.

Until then a board bow would probably be the best route to take if you don't have access to seasoned staves.  :)
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Hillbilly on October 30, 2007, 03:30:36 pm
Welcome aboard. I'm in western NC about twenty miles from the TN line.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 04:08:22 pm
OK now I'm gonna show you just how new I am.....
What exactly is the fade area??
and is there somewhere I can find a bowyers dictionary until My BB arrives??
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 04:31:02 pm
Thanx Greg Id love to come if I can manage...
Thanx Hillbilly.  I'm in Mountain City TN  Johnson County
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Pat B on October 30, 2007, 04:31:52 pm
The fade area is where the handle "fades" into the limbs. 
   There used to be a glossery of terms somewhere around here. Do a search and see what you come up with. In the mean time, just keep asking!    Pat
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 30, 2007, 04:33:46 pm
Ok just to be sure Im not REALLY stupid.
The fade is the transition from handle to limbs on the belly opposit the taper??
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Pat B on October 30, 2007, 04:54:39 pm
The fade area is both in width and thickness.  Generally the belly side tapers from the handle to the limb and the back remains a single growth ring(on a stave bow). On bend through the handle bows there is no fade area. Pat
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: a finnish native on October 30, 2007, 05:07:33 pm
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,2367.0.html

http://www.perinnejousi.fi/simo/images/

There are some good pictures of plains bows. they are mainly this B profile. If you want to make one, look for an ash, maple, hickory, osage etc. stave that is 50-52" long and about as thick as your wrist. you can take a bigger stave but that means a lot more work. Cut it to a 3 cm x 3 cm stick and press it to some reflex in the handle, but in the handle only.it will have this slight "V" shape. then let it dry for a month (or 3 weeks if you are in a hurry) take it out of the form and taper the thickness so that the handle area, that could be for example 12 cm long would be 3 cm wide and taperind to 1,5 cm wide tips. thickness from the handle region could start out around 2,5-3 cm. tapering to 1,5 cm at the tips. now you can start tillering. I would go for 40 pounds for it is the first bow of this type that you might build. set the bow on the tillering tree and pull 40 pounds. you will achieve it easily with these dimonsions. then scrape off wood from where necessary and pull again. reduce wood until you have the draw lenght that you desire. if it would be 52" long go for a draw lenght of 22½". A good rule in the definition of the drawlenght is to divide the bows lenght by 2.3 (this only in self bows) never pull the bow past the desired draw weight or lenght.
You are going to want to bring it around to that B shape as in those bows in the links also. (in the lower link the pictures 0507 and 0509 are great although that bow has a sinew backing.)
it looks like the mid limb and the tips would bend too much, but they do not due to the shape of the bow. Do not press the limbs down to the handle when setting in form. the so called set will handle that, and these kinda bows will not really take set. (even i haven't managed to get set in these bows) as in the tips would come lower than the handle is. they will come down a bit, but not much. I would suggest around 2-3" of reflex in your first bow. so you can press it to 3" cause you will lose some in different stages of the building of this bow.
Good luck man!
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Eric Garza on October 30, 2007, 11:14:59 pm
Hey Slaughter,

As one who's fallen in love with the short Plains-style bows I'd definitely recommend making a few longer bows first.  You can get away with a lot of mistakes, relatively speaking, in a 65-70 inch bow.  You can't get away with anything in a reletively narrow-limbed 45 incher, even if you back it.  That wood's under tremendous strain.

It might be worthwhile to start looking for a nice osage, black locust, white oak, elm or mulberry stave for your short bow now, so that when you feel like you're ready for it you'll have a nice piece of wood handy and dry.  I'm working on a 48 inch osage Plains-style bow as we speak and I'll post a few pics once it's done. 

All the best,

-Eric
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Calendargirl on October 30, 2007, 11:26:12 pm
Welcome, Tony.  There are a lot from TN. on this board as you might have heard and seen.  I am sure you will to know them and pretty soon you will have made your plans to come to the Twin Oaks' Tenn. Classic the first weekend in May.  Go to primitive skills and musings and check out the thread "Life is good".  They meet in Clarksville and during the weekend they have the self-bow challenge where you make your bow (with and abundance of advice and help available if needed) and shoot it in the challenge all that weekend.  Make your plans, it is so much fun and Pappy's farm is beautiful!  ;D
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 31, 2007, 09:23:32 am
Thanx everyone for all the great info Ill need all the help I can get.
TY CG for the info about the shoot in may Id really like to be there its not to far from home.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Woodland Roamer on October 31, 2007, 10:39:34 am
Welcome! I'm not too far away from you down here in Taylorsville NC, just at the foot of the mountians, a little less than two hours. I spend a lot of time up around Boone and hunting turkeys on Snake and Rich Mountians right there close to the state line not far from you. Maybe we could hook up sometime. You'll be able to find plenty of black locust in the area. That is my favorite bow wood that we have locally. I've not stumbled onto any osage around here yet although I'm always on the lookout for it. Those volumes of the TBB will help you out a lot and this website will too!

Alan
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on October 31, 2007, 10:50:29 am
Glad to meet you Alan.
We could hook up Im sure. Ive got about 200 acres of trees to choose from at my place.<only 6.5 are actually ours> I used to run in your neck of the woods yrs ago My grandmother still lives in lenoir.
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Woodland Roamer on October 31, 2007, 12:30:45 pm
Hey it's a small world! You should be able to find plenty of staves on 200 acres of TN woodland.

Alan
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Aries on November 08, 2007, 12:29:27 am
When  First started making bows a when i first started making bows a few years ago when i was 14/15 I i would cut down elm trees off the neighbors woods across from mine and carried them on my back almost a mile... dumb me, stubborn bowyer :). At his point i would suggest starting your first bows with kiln dried wood( boards from lows etc.) they are the easyest way to start your path as a bowyer, maby a little less adventurous :)   good luck Ty
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Slaughter on November 08, 2007, 08:32:01 pm
Thanx Ty,
I will be starting with a board bow while I dry a few staves .
any other advice before I truly get started?? Ill try to keep this updated as I go along but it may be a few daysor even weeks in between posts. I live in a primitive cabin I am building myself from recycled barnwood and have only a generator and 12v power.Lots of work to be done and lots of time off the puter depending on work and gas prices these days ;D
Title: Re: An introduction.
Post by: Aries on November 08, 2007, 11:38:26 pm
if you are workin on a board bow, keep it wide and it definately wouldnt hurt to back it, anything fairly tuff will work. I actually backed one of my earlier bows with denim from an old pair of pants. And on a few i backed with some mossy oak camo that i cut off the slieve of an unused garage sail purchase :),the latter turned out looking pretty good and serves fairly well covering up that bright orange if you are gonna be huntin with them.  Ty