Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Ringeck85 on March 07, 2013, 11:31:30 pm
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Hi there peoples!
I cut these a few days ago and wasn't sure what kind of wood it was. I think it's some kind of oak, maybe laurel oak or water oak (that's what I've narrowed down as most likely, the former because of where it grows and what it looks like, the latter because it grows all over the place down here), but I'm not sure even after squinting a long time at my tree guide book. Maybe you guys who know your oaks well can tell me? It's a young tree, and I have two 6.5" logs, one of which can be split in two fine, not sure if splitting the thinner one is a good idea. The grain looks great for bow wood to me either way :D I have already sealed the ends with thick coating of linseed oil, and will split once I know what I'm dealing with.
It was growing in Northern Florida between Apalachicola River and Tallahassee. The young tree was about 40-50 feet tall (probably could grow to 80 feet given time), tall, narrow trunk, and was still fairly young. The base of the trunk was in muddy leaves, and there was a hint of a mossy buttress there but not pronounced enough to give hint that it was anything like a bald cypress. Other trees that grow around the area are: Southern Magnolia, Mockernut and Shellbark Hickory here and there, Water Oaks, Beech here and there, shrub trees of various kinds, bald cypress, and long needle pine trees. Swampy low ground.
The leaves in early march are completely gone from the tree, so it is fully deciduous (so it's not any kind of live oak, and I suspect it is not water oak because the other water oaks around still have green leaves on them here and there) and not semi-evergreen. There's also a lot of lichen on the bark not mature yet), which is mostly smooth with narrow, shallow furrows starting to form. Twigs have very small buds growing on them at intervals of 2-3 inches apart.
Some pictures:
The logs,
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9437_zps31510fde.jpg)
bark detail:
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9439_zpsc1a78533.jpg)
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9438_zpsdf3518cc.jpg)
Bottom end of larger log:
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9440_zps5da184cb.jpg)
top end of smaller log
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9442_zpsd55f1a24.jpg)
Twig showing the buds:
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9445_zps59851988.jpg)
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q797/VisarFalmaien/DSCN9446_zps83157aa9.jpg)
So my guess is it's some form of red oak species (laurel, water, swamp oak, something like that), but it could be something else entirely. What do you guys think?
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If it were up here I would almost call it soft maple
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Huh... I know that red maple can grow down here, which is a soft maple, but it's not very common, is it? What kind of habitat does that grow in? I'll get my book and double check that, see if it matches bark and bud. Problem is I didn't see any maple-like leaves, even dried dead ones, on the ground next to it. Nor have I seen any in my morning walks, though I've sure been looking for wood like that. Mainly hickory and oak down here. Be good to have some maple to play with :D
So, my guess is no, given that I haven't seen any maple trees yet. But give Florida another month or so, and I'll be able to see the leaves of the deciduous trees lol, that should make things a lot easier.
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Ive just made a bow with that kind of wood! worked out great the tree grow nice for staves, Ive asked for ID on it on here and it came up either Laurel Oak or swamp bay we have to wait till the leaves are back on the trees to smell to see if they smell like bay if not then its Laurel Oak and i believe swamp oak is just another name for Laurel oak.
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I've checked, it looks nothing like swamp bay, which is a kind of magnolia, though there are trees like that in the forest nearby along with southern magnolia. Bark doesn't match very well either, book says it's smooth to scaly, this bark has small furrows/scratches in it and no scales.
And I think Laurel oak is now unlikely, since it's nearly evergreen and one of the key features to it was a buttressed trunk bottom.
And I've seen no evidence of maple leaves anywhere on the ground but maybe I should take another look at the scene of the crime :P
Any other good guesses?
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It's not a good guess but do you have any forms of hickory Nearby?
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Yes, both mockernut and pignut grows here, and I think I have a stave of mockernut I'm working on atm. Bark of those looks different than this afaik.
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I'm not too up on your American trees but I don't think it's an oak. Certainly not like any of our oaks.
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Ok, maybe I was wrong in assuming it was an oak.
Fishfinder tells me that the grain pattern doesn't look like oak.
So, if not oak, what might it be? Maple? Ash? Hickory of some sort? some sort of other obscure tree found only in northern Florida? X_X
Well I might never know lol. Least I will try to make bows out of the mystery wood.
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The pictures of the end grain are clear enough to conclude that it is a diffuse porous wood, and not a ring porous wood. This rules out any hickories, oaks or ashes.
It really is as clear-cut as that. Ring porosity does not vary within a plant genus (such as Quercus, oak), while the bark pattern, color, habitat, buttresses etc. can vary tremendously.
It is also not a maple (Acer), since the leaves (buds) are not opposite. Maple IS diffuse porous, but your picture of the buds rules out maple...
So the quest continues, although we can eliminate a lot of possibilities.
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Huh, my guess at the end of the day might have been Red Maple, but maybe not? I'll have to wait till more leaves come out and see. It was very difficult to split evenly and I'm afraid I lost half of it, "It's dead, Jim" X_X I'll see if I can salvage anything from that attempt, I still have the other log though. Very wet and fibrous wood, though for a young tree, in florida humidity, and lying near a spring will probably do that to a lot of woods. Gonna need to be patient and look for other wood to work with I think.
Sweetgum and Tuliptree also grow in the woods, their leaves sorta looked like maple and there are some dead ones on the ground, though this log was not either of those. I thought density wise it felt like oak, but maybe that was its water weight :P
Thanks for the eliminations :)
It's not sweetbay, tuliptree, most likely not any kind of maple, not hickory, not ash, not any kind of oak. Are you sure it couldn't be some sorta live oak? Or does that go by the same ring porous rule? I'm getting to know my trees better with all of these wood scoutings so that's probably the best thing to come from all this :D Again, many thanks. And if anyone has any other ideas feel free to chip in.
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Not Live Oak.
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It doesn't have a cluster of buds, as all oaks do. It's alternate branching not opposite, so that rules out maples and ashes. My guess would be black gum or one of the tupelo's...
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That is quite possible. Some sorta gum or tupelo. Can that make a bow or should I not bother?
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Looks like water hickory to me. We have them in the river bottoms in south alabama. If that is what it is, it isn't as strong as the other varieties of hickory. They have small hickory nuts that look like little miniature pecans and they generally are heavy nut producers. You should have seen lots of hulls on the ground. That's my guess. Young pecan trees can look like that too, but you usually don't find them in swampy places where the tupelo gums grow. Pecan is good bow wood. Check out a website called Trees of Alabama and the Southeast. It is put out through Auburn University and has some great information.
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No, I didn't see any nuts lying around the tree. The wood turned out to be incredibly moist and fibrous all the way through. Definitely not oak or maple. I tried to split it and epic failed, with one half being unsalvagable. I suspect it's some sort of tupelo or gum kind of tree.
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The bark looks like a young hickory but from what i can tell the rings do look diffuse porous which would rule hickory out. We have black gum trees around here but the bark doesnt look like that on the ones that Ive seen. If it is fibrous like you say it is it should make a bow.
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From the first log of this I have roughed out/whittled a couple of potential bow staves. Fingers crossed that when it's time to tiller them they won't break, but with some knots and cracks of concern here and there, I'm not so sure. I will wait longer for the other log (smaller) to dry; I think it tried to split it way too soon.
From working the wood, the sapwood is white, creamy and relatively soft but very strong feeling too. The heartwood was very light colored (almost same shade as sapwood, though this is a relatively young tree) very moist and fibrous but still pretty tough stuff, and ripped/shredded everywhere from draw knifing. I might have a slightly concave belly in some places too. Will post pictures if they don't turn into firewood; waiting for them to dry more for now.
I had another couple ideas:
Could it be red mulberry? I remember seeing some crushed dead leaves that were rounded and sorta mulberry like lying around. Might have been too early to see flowers or berries (why I should wait till I got an ID before I cut something next time) Is mulberry diffuse porous or ring porous and does the wood coloring look like a match?
It could also be Sweetgum of some sort, but I don't remember seeing a lot of gum balls on the ground. The bark didn't look exactly like other sweetgum trees that tends to be a bit more scaly. I'm not sure about Tupelo.
It is most definitely not: oak, hickory, maple, magnolia, tuliptree, probably not sweetgum but possible, and it's not dogwood, all of which grow in my locale. It is a relatively dense wood, and you have the pictures there.
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Please remember you are working with green wood. This is more difficult to work with than dry wood. Green wood tears easily with a drawknife, while dry wood doesn't. It feels relatively dense, because the wood still contains maybe 50% water by weight. Yes, half the weight of a fresh stave is water that still needs to be removed! Don't let the fresh weight fool you about the specific gravity of the wood. It is OK to work down the green wood to a near floor tillered blank, but remember you need to wait tillering until the wood has thoroughly dried.
Mulberry has clear heartwood and sapwood distinction, while this tree does not appear to have any heartwood. You're dealing with a whitewood. Mulberry also is ring porous, which I ruled out already. In whitewoods (such as maple, hickory, ash, poplar, beech), there is only sapwood, with sometimes a small portion of the core of older trees with a dark coloration called FALSE heartwood. Not actual heartwood we see in woods such as walnut, osage or mulberry.
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LAREL OR WATER OAK dosn't grow around here. But I can tell you it's not red oak.
The end pic. and bark looks like pig nut hickory.
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It won't be long before the leaves come out. You have to wait for this wood to dry so in a month or so you should know what the wood is.