Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: webrx on March 04, 2013, 10:14:10 am
-
Hi again,
New guy here, just build my first board bow, but now I need the right arrows. The ones I have are way too stiff (they are easton 2216 lights used in my compound - 65lb pull). I am guessing, should know later today, that my self bow is around 40 to 45 at 28". no cut in the riser, the arrow has to wrap around the bow which is 1 and 1/4 inch wide at the center.
my current arrows definately start and stay left when shooting so I am pretty sure (remember im a newbie) I need something with a softer spine.
While I am a tinkerer, the thought of making and fletching arrows seems a little daunting to me right now, though I may try it down the road (saw the hd bamboo arrow build thread).
As with a lot of folks, money is tight right now, so, any recommendations on some inexpensive arrows for my 72" red oak selfbow? Anyone have some arrows that will work on this bow they may want to trade for something? Being a newbie here, I would be willing to use a middle man for the trade to ensure we both get what we agreed too.
Thanks
Dave
-
Do you live in an area with river cane? You might be able to work out some trades that way.
-
try red osier that is 29.5 to the back of point. Make the arras weigh between 10- 11 grains per pound with 125 grain points installed that should put you in the ball park....I am kinda new but after building 3 dozen arras for one bow that seems to be the foumula that works for me. If they fly a little stiff go w 160 gr point. If they are a little weak go with 100 gr points.
Have fun,
Greg
-
Thanks, picked up some wood arrows today, spined for a 40#, my bow turns out is less than that, the store guy said 30# at 27" (my draw length), guess I over tillered it.....:)
That's ok, it was fun and I learned something - gonna use a scale while tillering next time.
d
-
You can't shoot alu. or vanes out of a self bow. You have to shoot wood and feathers. If you ever get around to building your own arrows PM me I've got lots of different kinds of shoots I'll trade you for something.
-
You can trust the advise crooked just gave you, and I would take him up on the trade offer. Arrows can be daunting to a new bow maker, but it is just another skill that needs practice. Once you have seen the way your bow shoots with wooden arrows you will be hooked!
Scott
-
Thanks for the info.
I tried the wooden ones from our archery shop in town and they don't work worth a snot....
The only arrow I can get anywhere near shooting is my Easton aluminum at this point - with long feather vanes, but I think it may be due to the weight of the arrow, the wood ones I bought were really light and wont even try to shoot straight. My son can shot them out of his 22 lb snake, but I can't get them do do diddly out of mine. I will put in a tiny arrow rest tomorrow (fit a piece under the leather wrap) so I can get a consistent launch point, and nocking point.
I am thinking either I am really missing something basic, or my bow needs a heavier arrow to shoot well, or maybe the arrow nocs are too tight, I don't know - like I said, I am new at this - I could weigh them I guess.
I did change the bow a bit, it is now 68 nock to nock (kept the old nocks for a stringer and put new nocks in for the flemish string I bought) It feels a little stiffer now, I really need to check the pull weight, but have been swamped with stuff to do when I get home.
Crooked - yes - I am up for a trade, in for a penny, in for a pound I guess, just gotta watch the dollars with the current economy, and it seems when i get into a new hobby, dollars find a way to get spent.
PM me if you want, with what you want for the shoots, and lets start talking, I really need to find something that will shoot well out of this bow cuz, I really like it, and even if it eventually hangs on the wall, I know I will build another one.
Dave
-
ok, I just weighed the arrows from the shop, they are 350 grams, my eastons are 555 grams, I think this may be part of the problem as I see others using 750 gram arrows in a board bow with no cut in shelf.
Even though they are aluminum, I can get the eastons on the target, I can't get the wood ones to get anywhere close.
any recommendations? I feel like a complete noob, sorry for the dumb questions.
d
-
You dont have an arrow with correct spine. The wood ones you tried sounds like they are too light spined. The aluminum are most likely too stiff spine. You need something in the middle. Weight of arrows mainly affect how an arrow drops per a distance. Spine affects how the arrow is shot from the bow(i.e. how arrow is able to wrap around handle of bow upon release)
-
It's not the weight of the arrow that will cause it to fly bad it is the spine,I shoot 525 most of the time but have 400 that fly fine also.On most selfbows that aren't center shot you arrow will need to be about 10 spine lighter that the bow,if you bow was 30 at 28 before you cut it down form72 to 68 it is probably more like 38 to 40 now so 35 lb spined arrows should work cut at 28 or 29.I would start with them at 30 inches long and see how they do.for each inch you cut off under 28 inches you will add 5 lbs of spine and for every inch you add to the length over 28 you will weaken by about 5 lbs. Point weight also changes the spine but not as much,heaver points weaken the spine and lighter points stiffen it. I would start with a 30 inch arrow 30to 35 spine with a 125 point. Also is it a bend in the handle bow ? if not you could narrow the grip a bit at the arrow pass and that would make it more forgiving on arrow spine. :) Hope this helps. Most shoot shafts and cain are a little more forgiving also because they are naturally tapered,big end to be the point it will also give a little weight forward which is a good thing also. :)
Pappy
-
Thanks again, yes a bend in the handle bow,no shelf. The guy I bought the arrows from said they were for a 40# bow, but the have pretty light points, basically when I let go of the string the arrow flies immediately left and just kind of flips around going next to nowhere.
Thanks again for the advice, I do have some CF arrows with 100 grain tips for a heavier bow (60#) but wanted wood to go with my self bow. I will have to look for or build something that better fits the bow, and I will have to also build portable tillering stick so I can better check the pull weight.
Thanks
d
-
Hi,
newbie here again, well, turns out the arrows will shoot from my bow if I loosen the nocks up a bit, meaning, they were holding on to the bow string.
modded the bow a bit also, added an arrow shelf to the side with velcro arrow rest and striker plate (carpet side), re-wrapped the handle. and put a string nock locator on the string.
was able to get the arrows on the target at the right height, and when I don't pluck, I am able to get them in the middle, when I do pluck arrows seem to fly right. I was reading through the ten tips for finger shooters and was able to try a few things that have seriously helped my accuracy, still trying to get a handle on loosing (releasing) the string, but can occasionally get it right.
Also turns out, my sons arrows are a bit tight on his string also, so gonna work on getting them all sanded out as well.
Thanks for all the help and any additional advice is greatly appreciated
Dave
-
WEB arrows can be perplexing but you'll find out with time and exsperance it's not as hard as you think.
To start with don't make your own arrows starting out buy some wooden dowl arrows. Now lets get rid of the string plucking. No need to hook the string deep and hard. Use either your tips or not past the fist knuckle crease. With time you'll do what comes natural. But for now either ways fine.
No mater if you use split finger ONE ABOVE 2 BELOW the arrow, which is what most people do if your shooting instintive. The other way is 3 under it's uselly go's along with gap shooting. Either way when you draw and release release with the third finger down. The upper 2 have to follow suit. With stops string plucks. You'll get the same smooth release everytime. WHICH IS WHAT YOU WANT.
The closer your bows are center shot the less your arrow spine has to match the bow. Like I said it's really hard to have alu. flex around your bow at the shot. WOOD DOSE MUCH BETTER. The weight of your arrow affects the arrow drop mainly. It's the spine affects right and left. Pm me I son might have a couple dowl arrow's that light. But first you need find out your correct bows weight before we move on.
-
Thanks Crooket.
I am using the wood ones I bought for now, and intend to get the pull weight checked, my little scale only goes to 25, gonna use it today to see where it hits 25, and can make an educated guess from there what it is, but I would rather know for sure.
Dave
-
You can use a bath room scale. Get a inch dowl but it dos'nt have to be round. Have it 3 1/2 ,4 foot long. Cut a nock in the end , measure your draw lenth on it make it on the dowl. Put it on your bow turn the bow upside down push it down on the scale to you reach your mark you put on. Look at the weight that'll be your bows weight at that draw lenth.
-
Sorry for the delay, but I do appreciate the help.
Weighed the bow (bathroom scale method) bow comes in at 37@28" nocks are 68" apart, my draw is 26.5" so most likely 31-32# at my draw.
Have been working hard with the arrows I have.
Gold tip lightnings, rated for "up to 35#" bow, 27.5" long, carbon arrow with plastic vanes, can get them to group somewhat, about the size of a pie plate at 10 yards. Can get them on the target but sporadic on position, sometimes in the center, sometimes low, sometimes high. if I release perfectly, no plucking, etc, they will hit the middle, but it has to be perfect and best group was 4 arrows, at 4 inches widest point to widest point from 10 yards - did this only twice, but did do it. These arrows porpoise a bit, adjust the nocking point from where it hits my hand on release (way low) to about half an inch above the top of the nock when the arrow is level, at this point my accuracy was way out there.
Easton 1816 Lite - Jazz arrows - 28" long aluminium with plastic vanes - Can get them on the target but very sporadic on position, sometimes in the center, sometimes low, sometimes high. if I release perfectly, no plucking, etc, they will sometimes hit the middle. These arrows porpoise a lot. again adjusted nocking point a ton, up and down 7 turns from where they seem to shoot best, could not stop the porpoising.
Easton 2216 Lites, 32" long, 125 grain tips, aluminum, 5" feather flights, these still group the best, maybe because they are longer and heavier, I dont know, but I can hear them hit the arrow shelf when released, but they fly pretty straight, not a lot of porpoising or fishtailing, well, maybe a little fishtailing, nocks tend to end slanted to the left at 8 yards. I am positive they are too stiff for the bow, but, they are the most consistent of the groups so far, I can put them in the center of the target most consistently, lots of noise though, and had to raise up my brace height to keep the flights from touching the arrow rest at brace height.
Funny I was figuring my form was all messed up and inconsistent until I shot the heavy arrows, I put 6 in a row inside the pie plate circle, two at a time. So while my form may be messed up, I must have been doing something right.
Gonna try to shoot the wood arrows later, it got real windy out and my son kind of took ownership of them for his pse snake, they shoot pretty straight for him in that bow, though it is only a 23# but it is center cut, or close to it. He shoots them pretty good when he tries. the nocks on these are a bit tight on my bow, but they fit his bow pretty good, did not want to sand them down cuz he likes them, I do have one that I can shoot though that is currently loose on his serving, was gonna tighten it up (hot water trick) but will shoot it first.
So, back to my dilemna, cash is not abundent, though I can probably swing another set of arrows come payday, but I can't keep buying different arrows for this selfbow, I'm gonna have to figure something out quick or just make it a wall hanger.
A little about me, pretty athletic most my life, still in good shape for 54, like to fly fish, float tube, play golf (10 handicap), etc. Good hand eye coordination. have not shot archery since I was a teenager, just getting back into it, so, willing to admit my form is probably no where near good.
Good news is, just had my 54th birthday, and my lovely wife ordered me a 50# Samick Sage recurve, I have arrows for my compound, Eastons, aluminum, rated for 50-55# so I think I may have arrows I can use in the sage already.
Thanks in advance for any further advice or help.
Dave
One last edit, just shot the wood arrows, rated for 40# bow per the sales guy, feather flights, 30" shaft, was able to get them on target, no porpoising, but a little up and to the left shaft alignment when on target. Moving back a couple yards and extending my draw to 28 (back of my jawline) the shafts go in fairly straight. Had to raise the nocking point 2 turns, to get height correct, but I might have found a winner, Gonna have to get a few more so I don't have to fight with my boy.
Dave