Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bigpapa on March 01, 2013, 11:47:41 am
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Howdy Yall. Got a question. What kinda weight could I expect to get out of a cedar self bow? Also, wanting to make a cedar kids bow too for my grandaughter. It'll have to be a easy one for her to learn with. Any ideas?
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Eastern Red Cedar will make a hunting weight bow, Western cedar very light weight. I would be afraid to shoot a Western cedar bow.
Grady
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Wear a helmet and be sure you grand daughter does. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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Im with Pappy. Not much about ERC excites me except its gorgeous color. Back it with hickory or sinew and you MIGHT have a fighting chance.
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In my limited experience I think hickory backed ERC makes a great bow. I have made three and working on my forth HBERC and no problems... Yet :)
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Hmmm.. well I've got gobs of hickory. What would be the best glue to laminate them together? And how light of a weight could I get out of one for her? She is just three, but gonna start her out right!
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Howdy, As you can see, opinions vary widely on eastern red cedar's suitability for making bows. I happen to believe that ERC and other junipers can make very good bows. Junipers can be weak in tension, so a backing of some sort is a good idea. A good clean knot-free stave can work well with no backing, but the back must be pristine. I've made backed ERC bows to 65# and unbacked to 40#.
You will get many votes for Tightbond glues. Tightbond 2 works well in gluing on a mood or bamboo backing.
Ron
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Thanks, guys. Can anyone post a few links for a cedar selfbow? I've been lookin and can't quite figure out how much of the sapwood (?) To take off.
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heres one. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,2031.0.html
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Pearl,
You should spend more time with Easrtern cedar it makes a fine bow!
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If you have lots of hickory why don't you just make her a hickory self bow and rest easy that it wont detonate on her?
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Thanks ionic. Actually just got done reading that one. :D
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If you have lots of hickory why don't you just make her a hickory self bow and rest easy that it wont detonate on her?
Well, that's also my other option. ;D. Might just do that, its just them cedar ones sho' be purty! Lol!
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Big poppa use as much of thhe sap as u can iv made 110# war bows with it if u got the sap use it its qay stronger thhan the heartwood for the kids id use a 1/2 slat backed with 1/8 hickory made llits if lighhtr wt bows with that and go onne bettr use tb 3 not 2 brock
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Pearl,
You should spend more time with Easrtern cedar it makes a fine bow!
I cant make a bow from any of the pine wood Brian. Ive tried enough man! My skills just dont match its requirements.
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Thanks BC.
When I laminate the hickory. Do I need to worry about cutting into the rings on the cedar? I would think both slats would need to be nice and smooth to mate up.
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Pearl,
I got a bow I will show you....take some pics with have it up tommarow. :laugh:
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I make em mate up the take a saw blade scratch em up glue em good wrape with bike tunes then aftr dryin cut er out on the stave shoot for 2/3 sap1/3 heartwood makes. A good bow if u dont have many knots to worry about brock
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The best bow I've made to date is a sinew backed ERC. Just over 50# at 28" 66" ntn and shoots very smooth. Rather shoot it than any of my others. It is feather light in my hand. I am on bow # 13 and I actually struggle a bit with tillering. Think I just got lucky with this one!!
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I'm kinda holding off backing with sinew till I've got some experience under my belt. Besides I still ain't figured out how the sinew stays stuck to the bow. :o
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I've made several in the 55-60# range. I just helped Fl Cuban redneck make his first bow out of cedar a couple of years ago. It's on here somewhere.
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so, this conversation is interesting to me. I just cut 5 bows worth of erc. I have never sinewed anything, and I find it intimidating. And with all the character, I can't back it with hickory. So that leaves rawhide, fiber, or sapwwod. It worries me that most think it won't make a good self bow?
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Well, you've got a start. That's for sure. ;D
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Here's another erc selfbow for you to check out. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,31071.msg (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,31071.msg) ERC is not exactly ideal to learn on, but it will make a fine bow. If you are planning to remove sapwood to show the heartwood on the finished bow, be sure that you don't take it down so far that heartwood shows on the back. The heartwood is completely worthless for tension. Even a little spot of it showing through will be fatal to a selfbow. If you have any and I mean ANY heartwood peeking through on the back, put a backing on it . Josh
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Cool, thanks josh. The wood I'm planning on using is out of a log I have that is a little over ten inches across. With about an inch of the light color wood before it gets to the heartwood. Yall think I should keep it wide and longish?
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Go 72-74 long 13/4 fades longed wider bro brock
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Holy carp, certaintly an ERC doesnt need to be that long to be a self bow? Does it? what draw weight are you shooting for? I am only trying for 40-50lbs@25 inches.
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Lol! No, it don't have to be that long for what your going for Sleek. Especially in a bendy handle. I will say that with my experience, longer is more important than wider with ERC. The wood is so light that even a very substantial overbuild in length still comes in at low mass. Are you thinking stiff handled, ELB, ALB or still undecided on design? That all makes a difference of course. I had a 70" elb that was 60#@28" for a while, but I got snookered out of it one night on a bet. I need to make me another one. I loved that bow! Josh
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Excellent Thread!
Thanks for posting...
-gus
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Gentlemen , ERC with a thin backing makes a GREAT ELB... Man tall , fully bending , D profile, thick of handle , circular tiller ... We’ve made several ... all were light in hand and straight/fast/smooth shooters . We glued on our hickory backings (1/8” thick ) with 2-3” of Perry reflex and by the time the bows were shot in , they were perfectly straight when first unstrung..
The lighter density of the wood produces a “thicker" bow , shaped somewhat like the old MR War bows ... Ours were ~ 50-60# @28”
Definitely a wood choice to investigate if you like the old school ELB ... and you can take the leftover shavings , put them in a little cloth bag and put it in your closet to keep the bugs away ... 8)
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I was just figuring to make a bendy handle stump shooter, if I don't back it. Just a play bow really for starters. Then maybe upgrade the next one to somethin that would be worth doin somthing with.
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You know , a quickie Dog Chew rawhide backing would work and is pretty easy ...!!!
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Howdy Yall. Got a question. What kinda weight could I expect to get out of a cedar self bow? Also, wanting to make a cedar kids bow too for my grandaughter. It'll have to be a easy one for her to learn with. Any ideas?
This one is rawhide backed and 51@27 but I've seen much heavier bows using ERC.......... as said in another thread a clean knot free piece is hard to come by but sure make the job allot easier ..........
This bow is still shooting like a champ :)
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,31792.0.html
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That's a sweet one coaster. ;D
So how do I make the rawhide stick to the back of the bow?
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Here is a Quote from Pat.... explains it much better than me... I use goat rawhide on mine :)
"It is just like applying snake skin. I guess you haven't done that either.
A lot depends on how thick the rawhide is. With deer rawhide I soak it in warm water while I'm prepping the bow. Clean the back of the bow put down a thin layer of Glue(I like TBIII glue) and let the glue set. When the raw hide is soft and pliable roll it up in a towel to remove the excess water, lay it flat and apply the glue to the flesh side and another layer to the bows back. Lay the rawhide down from the handle to the tip and work out the air bubbles and excess glue. I prefer to use 2 pieces of rawhide overlapped at the handle. If the rawhide is pliable enough it will drape over the limb and no wrap is necessary. If it doesn't lay well I use old bed sheets ripped into 2" wide strips to wrap it. After it has set for an hour or so I will remove the wrap, trim the excess rawhide with a razor blade from the edges(while it is still soft). Now let the bow sit in a dry area so the moisture in the glue will evaporate. I like to give it 3 days to a week , depending on the weather.
If you allow the first coat of glue to cure out completely(24hours) first, and you are using TBIII, it will help keep most of the moisture out of the wood thus making the drying time shorter.
Once it is completely dry you can dress up the edges with a file and sandpaper on a block. Add your regular finish the way you normally do. "
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Awesome, thanks. Been thinkin and figure maybe just make a backed one for my grandaughter for safety sakes. Yall think it would have a light enought pull for her?
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Keep scraping until it does :)
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Will do. :D I believe its gonna be just as fun making it for her as it will be showing her how to shoot it.
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Here is the first HBERC I made. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36767.0.html it is still shooting and is one of my favorites to shoot.