Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: KShip85 on February 06, 2013, 02:35:04 pm

Title: Tiller help
Post by: KShip85 on February 06, 2013, 02:35:04 pm
Ok, well here is the bow I've made reference to in a few other posts.  It's a maple backed ERC molle made from a deflexed stave with recurved tips.  I'm shooting for around 55 lbs at 29".  It's ~68" tip to tip.  This is only my second attempt at a molle at my first try at one that's not a kid bow.  What areas are ok and where does it need work?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/kshipley85/null_zps64b60bf3.jpg)


Thanks for the help :)


Kip
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: akila on February 06, 2013, 02:43:22 pm
The upper limb, its a little stiff, specialy at the fades....near the handle...the bottom limb looks ok for the moment...u can wait for others to tell whatt they think aboute this tiller...sometimes, an extra pair of eyes helps..:)
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 06, 2013, 02:45:18 pm
What does your straight edge tell you when you run it over the belly?
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: Carson (CMB) on February 06, 2013, 02:47:12 pm
I think the upper limb looks to be bit stiff too.  hard to say where the limbs need to bend more without an unbraced side profile picture.  I would say mid-limb needs to bend more on both limbs, and taking a little of the upper limb fade also, might bring that limb around.
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: KShip85 on February 06, 2013, 03:03:44 pm
What does your straight edge tell you when you run it over the belly?

Not sure what your talking about here?  Can you explain what ya mean.

I thought the upper limb and fades seemed stiff too but my other molle hinged at the fades so I'm be careful around them. 

I can try and get an in unbraced side profile for comparison.


Kip
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: bubby on February 06, 2013, 03:07:02 pm
use a 6" straight edge or a tiller gizmo, it will show where you need to scrape, Bub
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: KShip85 on February 06, 2013, 03:12:03 pm
Thanks for the explanation Bubby, I'll have to cut a block and see.  I've been using calipers to check the limb thickness as I've gone.

Here is a side profile unbraced for comparison.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/kshipley85/null_zps2025d74b.jpg)
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: SLIMBOB on February 06, 2013, 03:20:36 pm
Actually I think your pretty close.  Need to see an unbraced profile and a braced pic.  Looks like you can brace it 5 inches or so??  Top limb does appear a little stiff as Carson said.  Take some off near the fade.  I take a caliper and check to see if the limbs are consistent from side to side and with one another at given points.  With it braced, measure string height at the farthest point on each limb.  This will tell you which limb needs to bend farther (more wood taken off).  Slow and easy at this point.  Little steps.  If the unbraced profile is even, and you can get the braced profile even, then draw it farther and check it. 
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 06, 2013, 03:21:22 pm
Your scraper is a good edge to use. When the gap between the edge and the belly lessens, its stiff. Mark it with a pencil and remove wood until that gap is even from fade to tips when you run the straight edge down the belly.
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 06, 2013, 03:22:25 pm
You can see how one limb has talen more set than the other in the unbraced shot. Thats due to one working unevenly as opposed to the other.
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: KShip85 on February 06, 2013, 05:15:23 pm
Just got done doing some scraping/sanding.  Here's another look.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/kshipley85/null_zps434e19ea.jpg)




Looking better?


Kip
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: chamookman on February 06, 2013, 05:16:56 pm
Kip - A carpenters pensil will work to check for flat spots too, and Ya already have something to mark it with  :laugh: ! Good luck - Bob.
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: chamookman on February 06, 2013, 05:18:03 pm
Yepper - looks alot better ! Bob
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: akila on February 06, 2013, 07:08:24 pm
It looks much better, but i would still make that upper limb, to work just a little bit moore, at the fade, near the handle...u have there, aboute 3-4", wich are a little stiff...and the bottom limb, i would make bend a little moore just right in the middle....u have to be realy patience, now, and go verry slowly...just a fiew scraps, and take photo again, and try to analise it from all the angles...good luck
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: SLIMBOB on February 06, 2013, 07:21:03 pm
+1 akila.
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: KShip85 on February 06, 2013, 10:00:35 pm
Well I've checked weight and somehow yet again I manged to drastically miss my intended weight.  I thought my limbs were still a little thick and now I'm about 20 lbs under where I wanted to be.  Ever since blowing a cedar bow I really pushed I've not been able to hit weight.

Has anyone ever tried adding a backing strip to up the weight?  My thought is I could add a trapped hickory back and up the weight.  Is this possible?  I like the looks and feel of this bow but would like it to reach weight.  If there's no chance a backing could work I guess I'll just give it to my wife and see if she will start shooting some. 

Thanks for the help all.


Kip
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: akila on February 07, 2013, 04:57:10 am
Sorry aboute that...told u, to take it slow..:)...u can  up the weight by gluing some strips on the belly, and retiller the bow again...its up to you iff u think the bow worth the effort to do that, but its possibile to  do it...
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 07, 2013, 08:50:11 am
Cut 1.5" off each end. Those levers aren't doing anything anywho. The only way to start building bows that hit your weight is to start pulling them farther sooner, providing your not hinged up anywhere. You cant be scared to bend a bow while tillering. If you tinker around with a long string and never put anymore than 20-25# of pull on the bow you will end up with a rack full of 40 pounders. Get the tiller closer earlier and brace when you can. Forget about the thickness of the limbs, its irrelevant. .


I llike to low brace as soon as I can physically make it happen, ask the guys that worked with me last weekend at MartyJam. They think Im crazy, for many reasons of course, but I like my bows and will keep early low bracing them. It allows me to get any weight I want. So what if I take an extra 1/8" of set because I braced it at 75-80# and want a 55-60# bow in the end. Most all that belly wood will be gone by the time I get down to my target weight anyway. When I say low braced, Im mean 1-3" max.
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: KShip85 on February 07, 2013, 09:30:59 am
Pearl, would it be possible/worth it to cut some length and resplice the tips back in?  Only reason I ask is that I don't want to lose all the recurve out there and also I have figured black walnut overlays on the tips.  Wondering if I could cut the levers in the straighter part and do a 1.5" V-splice.  What are your thoughts on a backing strip?


Kip
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 07, 2013, 10:16:05 am
Ypu lost me. If you cut it off and then add it back, what are you gaining?
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: KShip85 on February 07, 2013, 10:21:04 am
I was thinking if I do a v-splice then I would lose the length of that splice.  Say I cut the lever then cut the splice and glue it back I think I'd lose in length whatever the size of the splice was.  Not sure if I'm being clear or not.


Kip
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: Pappy on February 07, 2013, 10:23:50 am
I llike to low brace as soon as I can physically make it happen, ask the guys that worked with me last weekend at MartyJam. They think Im crazy, for many reasons of course, but I like my bows and will keep early low bracing them. It allows me to get any weight I want. So what if I take an extra 1/8" of set because I braced it at 75-80# and want a 55-60# bow in the end. Most all that belly wood will be gone by the time I get down to my target weight anyway. When I say low braced, Im mean 1-3" max.
What he said,very good advice.  :) You start doing that you will start making weight on most bow barring any major problem,and yes I would pike it also.
   Pappy
Title: Re: Tiller help
Post by: Carson (CMB) on February 07, 2013, 11:43:27 am
Like Pearl said and pappy echoed.  Brace early.  That is what I do now.