Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DuBois on January 31, 2013, 03:40:09 am
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I couldn't wait any longer and I took out the hatchet and roughed this stave out. I think it has wicked potential >:D
All the curves are natural and the back is the outside of the 4" tree branch that was cut in Sept. 2012 and been in my shed since.
I debarked the back right after cutting-it has no check or cracks anywhere :).
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/002_zps7a617332.jpg)
Thanks to you all.
Marco DuBois
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Wow!!!
I'll say a prayer for you :o
ERC is tough when the stave is without to much going on (knots, ect). Yours is a real challenge, if you pull it off that will be something!!!
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Cool stave,good luck with that and be sure and wear a helmet. ;) ;D ;D What Coaster500 said. :)
Pappy
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If your determined to use it then I would sinew back it for sure. Personally I would try to find a cleaner, straighter stave if it were me.
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Howdy Dubois, I do agree with the others in that this could be tricky. Sinew is widely agreed to be a very good pairing with junipers and will definitely improve your chances of success. ERC is a fairly light wood and wide thin limbs are a good idea, but I'd still narrow the tips and get rid of most of that branch. Small, solid knots on the belly are ok, but can be fatal to the bow if present on the back. ERC can be heat bend so you might want to even out some of the bends as you get closer to final dimensions.
I've always opted to leave the back alone once I've stripped the bark, and end up with mostly sapwood in the bow. Other's have said they prefer to see more heartwood and remove some of the sapwood, or decrown the back. Since you're planning to sinew the back, reducing the sapwood seems like an OK idea, but it increases the work and increases the chances of problems ( ie. snap!!!).
Ron
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Thanks to you all for the honesty and input.
And the prayers cause it looks like I'll need em :o
I decided to decrown it and trim it down some, steam bend as needed, and then sinew it with 3 courses. At least I'll get some sinew experience :-\
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It sounds like a reasonable plan. Keep us posted. Ron
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You sir are a glutton for punishment >:D And I can respect that... , de crown with caution and keep the pictures coming... safety glasses ;)
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Make the bow narrow and a shallow D section. That will take some strain off the back
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OK, thanks Marc.
I'll see what I can do around the knots and where I can narrow some ;)
Anyone have any ideas on the knot question or how many sinews a bow like this would take for 2 or 3 courses if I can get it to average about 1.5" wide at 57" long?
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A dozen back sinews would get you close for 3 layers.
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OK, I cleaned out the knot holes on the back which ranged from 1/4" to about 1/2" and total 9.
I haven't seen anything like this done and so of course I had to try it once it stuck in my head >:D :'( >:D :'(
I filled the holes with hide glue and saw dust and worked in wet sinew strands, let it dry, then layed them down with the sizing glue, let em dry, and then sinewed 3 courses over that and created a slight crown to the back.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/004_zps050d50e4.jpg)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/003_zpsd026b6a2.jpg)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/002_zps96cb511e.jpg)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/014_zps2c98e808.jpg)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/013_zps1c3584ed.jpg)
Belly is slightly D profile.
I know this is probably nuts but I was inspired by Ionicmuffins insanity to post my progress instead of waiting til the end :-\ >:D 8) ;D
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So here's the "progress".
Have been waiting for the sinew to cure but thought it was time for an update. Should be tillering in a couple weeks :o
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/015_zps20ed18f2.jpg)
After this, it's straight and knot free for me... Unless it works >:D
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We all wait with baited breath.
Good luck.
Del
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We all wait with baited breath.
Good luck.
Del
Yes, I'm sure there will be many fitfull nights sleep for the masses until the results are known ;)
Thanks for the good luck Del, I'll need it.
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That looks like some potential for an amazing bow to me! keep at it!
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That's a pretty tough challenge you got there. Looking forward to seeing the finished product man. :)
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... good luck with that and be sure and wear a helmet. ...
dito.
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So I finally got this low braced.
Has 3.5" setback before bracing.
The upper limb on the right has 1/2" more setback coming off the handle and the lower has a spot half way down that takes a slight dip toward the belly so limbs are not symetrical but close.
It pulls 10# at 9" and I like the way it looks so far but would like to hear from you guys with more experience.
Thanks folks ;)
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heres the pics.
unbraced
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/004_zps3345eeac.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/Bows/004_zps3345eeac.jpg.html)
9"
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/005_zps150cf595.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/Bows/005_zps150cf595.jpg.html)
11"
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/006_zps146f7218.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/Bows/006_zps146f7218.jpg.html)
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Don't worry, no babies were hurt in these pictures ;D
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Throw conventional belief to the wind! Strap on a helmet and bend that stick!!! I like your style Sir! That is lookin' SWEEEET!!!! Josh
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Pretty sweet man. I'm not sure if this was intentional or due to chracter or whatever, but if it were me, I might do some extra scraping in the outer 3rd (the part of that third closer to the middle espicially) just cause it looks a little stiff I'd want this bow to not have any unneccessary stress on the limbs. I'm no expert though.
Really looking forward to the finished product! :)
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I am liking it - looking good!
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brace, stress, tiller, brace, stress, tiller, brace, stress, shoot, finish, shoot, ful draw pic, BOM here we come weeeeeeeeee! ;D
love it look'n good getter done. No worry but good luck any way ;)
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Where is the fun in a straight bit of wood. Now that looks fun, good luck.
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This is moving along a whole lot better than I thought it would..... looks like you're building a bow man :)
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I wish you the best and hope she turns out well......looks to be coming along good so far.
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DuBois, That's looking dangerously close to becoming a bow. The deflex in the left limb makes it hard for me to read. The curve of the limb looks ok, but the outer 1/2 is probably bending more than the inner 1/2. Meanwhile the right limb looks pretty good.
What draw are you shooting for? Ron
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DuBois, That's looking dangerously close to becoming a bow. The deflex in the left limb makes it hard for me to read. The curve of the limb looks ok, but the outer 1/2 is probably bending more than the inner 1/2. Meanwhile the right limb looks pretty good.
What draw are you shooting for? Ron
Thanks Ron,
I think 40-50# is reasonable to hope for if it survives. So far so good. I think my current bows in works are probably beyond my skill level and will get to some straight stuff next and learn how to tiller a bit better ::)
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Thanks for all the positive wishes folks. I get a few hours here and there between kids and wife... so it is slow going. It's kind of good though, they slow me down and I need it :D Will have a few more pics in the near future.
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You got this! Lookin good just take your time
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So I got her out to about 16" and all is well so far.
Hows my tiller lookin?
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/003_zpscde58a98.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/003_zpscde58a98.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/004_zps67f2885b.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/004_zps67f2885b.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/006_zps80fee504.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/006_zps80fee504.jpg.html)
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Anyone?
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Looks good so far from here..but what do I know? ::)
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imo the right limb looks a little stiff right at that stud about halfway down the limb.
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imo the right limb looks a little stiff right at that stud about halfway down the limb.
There's a subtle reflex kink there in the unbraced profile,and it appears to be working to my eyes,and should look flat there for right now with how far he is drawing....the left limb has the same thing but its a lil more pronounced than the right
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That's what I'm seeing to Chris. Tricky one to tiller for sure, but looking pretty good so far! Josh
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You have to be careful with those reflexed kink spots...they'll be stubborn on ya,but once they bend past straight and open up you need to be careful...you can be pulling as far as you are now and they can be stubborn not wanting to move n open up,but if ya pull it a lil farther that can all change...because those kinks are more bend resistant then the deflexed part of the limbs...so you gotta be extra careful with those spots and work em slowly with lots of exercising and looking...make sense?
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Man it's looking pretty good, i really hope it turns out for you. Take it slow and you should get a kick ass bow.
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You have to be careful with those reflexed kink spots...they'll be stubborn on ya,but once they bend past straight and open up you need to be careful...you can be pulling as far as you are now and they can be stubborn not wanting to move n open up,but if ya pull it a lil farther that can all change...because those kinks are more bend resistant then the deflexed part of the limbs...so you gotta be extra careful with those spots and work em slowly with lots of exercising and looking...make sense?
I think it does make sense. That may explain how I have gotten real light on other bows that just won't move and then all of a sudden I am way under. Or maybe I am just impatient and rasp happy :-\
Alright then, thanks folks. I am off to hit it again for a while.
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Thanks Dubois,
I really appreciate you posting all this. My boss just gifted me with a couple of staves of ERC that look just like yours here. I was wondring how to attack it....
Can't wait to see the rest,,,, :)
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I been tryin to go real slow. I think I like it as it is but want to check with the guys with the eyes ;)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/001_zps7c72fe76.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/001_zps7c72fe76.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/001_zpsfc9aae24.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/001_zpsfc9aae24.jpg.html)5" brace (do you measure from the back to string?)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/002_zpsb6aa6a3d.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/002_zpsb6aa6a3d.jpg.html)16"
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/003_zps7e371976.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/003_zps7e371976.jpg.html)20"
Open to any suggestions, Thanks, Marco.
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That is really lookin good! What specs are you shooting for? I'm quite impressed with how you've worked the character wiggles! Josh
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Ditto..n how much weight are you pulling there at 20"? If its not pulling at your intended weight at 20" I'd say you can pull it another inch and check it/exercise it,and if all is still well you can pull another inch etc...till you are pulling your intended weight....otherwise if you are pulling your intended weight at 20" ,then its just a matter of careful full length same number scrapes each limb to reduce weight,and monitoring your bend as you go down inch by inch till your at your draw length...and when you get to two inches away from your intended draw length start shooting it in at some short draws first and slowly out to your full draw...the reason for this is you'll lose some weight shooting it in(due to set) and final sanding to seal it
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That is really lookin good! What specs are you shooting for? I'm quite impressed with how you've worked the character wiggles! Josh
Hey Josh, thanks man. I was hoping for a 40# bow at least but again I think it will be light. Man I am allways comin in under :'(
Ditto..n how much weight are you pulling there at 20"? If its not pulling at your intended weight at 20" I'd say you can pull it another inch and check it/exercise it,and if all is still well you can pull another inch etc...till you are pulling your intended weight....otherwise if you are pulling your intended weight at 20" ,then its just a matter of careful full length same number scrapes each limb to reduce weight,and monitoring your bend as you go down inch by inch till your at your draw length...and when you get to two inches away from your intended draw length start shooting it in at some short draws first and slowly out to your full draw...the reason for this is you'll lose some weight shooting it in(due to set) and final sanding to seal it
Thanks for checkin it for me and the info. I need the instruction. It is only hittin 20# at 20" and draw length will be 26" if it makes it. What's that, about a 30# bow? AGAIN!!
I think I am floor tillering too much off and by the time I get my bows even limbed, I have gone too far? Seem like a possible source of my being Captain Lightweight?
Oh well, I gotta keep doing this for a long time since I got so much to learn ;) >:D
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Good advice has been given to you...But now can't you put a little more sinew on it to increase your draw weight.It'll be another waiting period but if put on evenly on both limbs it should'nt change your tiller much.Course that'll pull it into more reflex you know,but that'll be ok.
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Good advice has been given to you...But now can't you put a little more sinew on it to increase your draw weight.It'll be another waiting period but if put on evenly on both limbs it should'nt change your tiller much.Course that'll pull it into more reflex you know,but that'll be ok.
Hey, that is a good idea! I hate to wait but I guess I need to learn to do it better. Will do it. Thanks Beadman.
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Wow doob that's quite a compliment coming from gun doc and blackhawk... nice tiller!!! So it is 30 ,big deal it looks sweet that is the big obstacle the weight will come next ;)
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six more inches of draw X 2.5 equals it may be close to 35 without more sinew. With Beadman's advice taken, you might just hit your weight. Good work so far. ;)
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Wow doob that's quite a compliment coming from gun doc and blackhawk... nice tiller!!! So it is 30 ,big deal it looks sweet that is the big obstacle the weight will come next ;)
Thanks, and yes, if those guys think it looks good then I am feelin much better about it :)
six more inches of draw X 2.5 equals it may be close to 35 without more sinew. With Beadman's advice taken, you might just hit your weight. Good work so far. ;)
Thanks man, I will be getting a little sinew on it the day before I go on a week vacation, so we shall see. At least that kills some of the wait time.
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Finally done! This I think could have been an awesome bow if I had known better what I was dong.
Came in light and looking back I think it was floor tillered under 40# to begin with and I also think I misjudged how much ERC wood it would take for a heavier bow compared to some other woods. Anyway, here it is at 24# at 26". Lots of work for a light bow but it was interesting and educational. Think it is time for an unbacked self bow and some arrows.
Thanks for looking.
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/006_zps36dd059c.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/006_zps36dd059c.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/007_zpsbdc0567e.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/007_zpsbdc0567e.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.phot[URL=http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/009_zps707aee27.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/009_zps707aee27.[URL=http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/010_zpsbc300e07.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/010_zpsbc300e07.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/008_zps47ddda44.jpg.html)jpg[/IMG][/URL]obucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/008_zps47ddda44.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/011_zps7ba8a690.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/011_zps7ba8a690.jpg.html)
My first single tag lace up rawhide handle too. :)
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(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/010_zpsbc300e07.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/010_zpsbc300e07.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/009_zps707aee27.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/009_zps707aee27.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/008_zps47ddda44.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/008_zps47ddda44.jpg.html)
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Wow, nice! The profile is awesome. I betcha it still shoots great even with the low weight with all that reflex and erc being about the lightest wood you can make a bow out of, :).
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I think it looks great. It is surprisingly easy to make light weight bows ( unless you want to.) Ron
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Very nice. I bet it shoots good! Lightweights need love too and your finishing work is excellent. Good job.
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Hey still a fun bow to shoot for the whole family I'd say.So now you've got an idea what red cedar will do with the thickness you worked with.Next time if you want a heavier bow you'll know what to do.You started out with a knarly piece of wood and still got a bow from it.Still bet it'll knock the snockers out a bunny for sure.
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Man I am proud of you......it is a good looking bow made from a piece of wood that most would have thrown out. It is well tillered and if it shoots well be very happy. Even though it is a little light I would not worry about that at all....take what you learned and make the next one even better.
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TMK, thanks man, and it does shoot nice.
Thanks Ron, maybe I should start trying to make 100# bows and then I can get a 50# ;)
Thanks Rhodes, I forgot to mention put a layer of green silk over the sinew and it turned black with the TB3
Beadman, thank you. yes I will have a better idea of what to do next time for sure and it will be good for the kids as they get older.
Thanks a lot BB77, still figuring out the right order of things in the process and this was sure a good experience.
And thanks to all you others who helped with your responses. Sure would be tough to do this with just my brain ::)
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I like how it turned out! Tiller looks great to me.
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Beautiful bow Dubois, tiller looks spot on
Knapper
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That looks sweet. I am starting my first attempt at ERC tonight. Doubt it will look as cool as yours but thanks for the inspiration!
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That came out sweet! As you now know, it takes a lot of erc to make a bow unlike Osage. Josh
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Approximately how thick are your limbs, I have a ERC stave 2" wide and 60" long with NO knots on the back and with a slight gull wing shape. The stave is about 1.75" to 2" thick and I do not want to come in light. This will make an awesome bow if I don't screw it up. As soon as I get the cherry bark on my trade bow and get it finished up I am going to start on this one. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Grady
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Thanks Osborn and knapper. It was a little tricky to tiller :)
That looks sweet. I am starting my first attempt at ERC tonight. Doubt it will look as cool as yours but thanks for the inspiration!
Thanks paoli, good luck with your bow and keep us posted ;)
That came out sweet! As you now know, it takes a lot of erc to make a bow unlike Osage. Josh
Thanks Josh, yeah, that is one lesson I will hopefully take with me and remember from this one to the next.
Approximately how thick are your limbs, I have a ERC stave 2" wide and 60" long with NO knots on the back and with a slight gull wing shape. The stave is about 1.75" to 2" thick and I do not want to come in light. This will make an awesome bow if I don't screw it up. As soon as I get the cherry bark on my trade bow and get it finished up I am going to start on this one. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Grady
Hey Grady, the limbs are 7/8 at the fades tapering to 3/8 before the stiff part of the tips and tips are 1/2 x 1/2. 1 7/8 wide down to 3/4 wide before tips. BUT, there are layers of sinew so wood is a little less than these dimensions. I think if this was just the wood before sinew I may have been closer to weight.
GunDoc and M-P know this wood so may have some good insights if you have any questions. Hope that helps and best wishes with the new one. Sounds like it could be a sweet one.