Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Stalkingfox on January 24, 2013, 01:40:06 pm
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So I have some gorgeous Oak possibly Red Oak I think, but I like my limbs thinner instead than wide. Im looking at 1 1/2" and was wondering if itll work for a bow thats 55-56" long? Im unfamiliar with Oaks for bows. I know it wouldnt work so well with Hackberry.
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well, heres what ive experienced, if your going to do thinner with oak, you should heat treat the limbs, i can guarantee that the weight will bump significantly, and should avoid set. I think that normally 1.75-2 inches is what oak needs, however, the heat treating will allow you to go thinner and take little set, also flipping tips is a good idea.
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It doesnt matter what you like. You build and design according to the wood. If you build just what you like and not what the wood needs, you got a long road ahead of you.......
Flipping tips adds stress to the limbs.
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Exactly what I was asking Pearl. Im not sure what the limits were with oaks and wondered how thin I could get the limbs, Im new to building and designs and mostly learning through hard experience. (mostly because I dont have the resources to teach me otherwise.) another reason why Im here on PA.
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I consider hackbery twice the bow wood oak is. So if you feel hackberry wont handle your idea, I doubt oak will.
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Really!? :o I really need to find a chart or guide on what bows work with which designs best. I appreciate the input guys!
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theres a lot of truth to what pearl says, i have a hickory bow that is 1.5 at the widest and its taken a lot of set, and its only 38-42 lbs. at 29" it was a bit disappointing, but i think hickory is normally better at 1.75" wide. Something else to consider when making a bow, if the wood is more tension strong, then you dont want to round the belly as much, make it a flat ish belly. and if the wood is a strong compression wood, then you should round the belly. thats probably whats wrong with my hickory, its got quite a rounded belly, and since hickory is stronger in tension that compression then that makes sense that it would take a lot of set. Oaks ive heard are tension strong. so you could trap the back and make it 2" wide at the fades for the belly and 1.75 or 1.5 on the back, this would help keep the wood balanced. i wouldn't round the belly of oak very much at all, a very mild rounding is alright, but very mild.
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onemississipp.googlepges.com/bowwoods
this is tim bakers list of non bow wood, borderline wood and tru bow woods
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I've made one ELB long bow from oak that was 1 1/8" wide. Interesting enough, it was the only oak bow that I have built that has not chrysaled on me and has shot 1000's of arrows. About 1 3/4" set but it was a target bow to begin with and still shot good so I didn't mind.
Jon
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For a bow that short and 1 1/2" wide I'd go with an Eastern Woodland style bendy handle bow for 28" draw. If your stave was 66" to 68" I think 1 1/2" would work OK but being that short will really put stress on a bow wood that can't take that much stress.
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Any pics on that eastern woodland style Pat? I googled it and didnt catch much. Mostly cud=s Im not sure what Im looking for lol
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I'll see what I can find and post them. ;)
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Is this wood the stuff I sent? If so I do think it is a white oak and not a red oak like I originally thought. Only reason I bring that up is its my understanding that white oak is significantly stronger than red oak. I believe in on of the bowyer's bibles white oak is said to break at or after the point which hickory will go. Might vary between subspecies though. I'm no expert, just regurgitating what I've heard/read.
Kip
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If you want to know for sure if you have red or white oak, look closely at the rays (small brown streaks in the surface grain.) Red oak almost always has very short rays and white oak is much longer. By short I mean around 1/8" to 1/4" and long is more like an inch or greater. Some of the most beautiful red colored oak I've seen was actually white oak so don't judge by color.
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The handle is a hair or so under 1 1/2 inches wide and it is pretty much about 1 1/2 at midlimb and tapers slightly as you get to the tips. Thats pretty much eastern woodlands design. Bends in handle and is very durable and functional. For 56 inches, i wouldnt push oak to achieve 28 in draw though. Maybe shorten the draw to like 25 or 26.
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Kip it is the oak you generously sent to me :). Its beautiful Oak and I think Im definately going to go for the eastern woodland style. The handle is already at 1 1/2 wide and 1 1/2 thick. And Ill have to look again for those streaks Dan.
I need to get the first and second volumes of TBB. :(
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Well heres a close up. The third pic is under the sapwood
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I've got a few Eastern Woodland style hickory bows that are 1 1/4 inch at the widest point. :)
Lengths are 63", 58", and 56". The 63" shoots realy sweet the 58 takes about as much set as most of my bows and the 56 takes a couple inches of set but it was made under 'survival' conditions and in about a day so the tiller isn't exactly spot on.
I don't really have any expiereice with oak but if it acts similar to hickory; make sure the back is perfectly clean, there's a lot of tension on a 1 inch wide bow. ;)
And if you want low set take your time with tiller.
I also just have a 26" draw and I usually just draw the shorter bows to 25" so that helps with set too.
Pretty much what Dictionary said.
I'd highly suggest taking a look at 'Native American Bows, Arrows, and Quivers' Vol 1. It has a ton of pics and dimensions of eastern woodland bows that'll help you out.
I had another guy on another forum ask me similar question so I already have some pics on my computer. These bows here are cyprus but the vast majority of EW bows look just like them with just some varation in nock style and length.
I'd suggest keeping the handle nice and round. The 'square' thin bow handles aren't very comfortable to shoot. ;)
(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc495/KenpoFighter1/HPIM5590.jpg)
(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc495/KenpoFighter1/HPIM5591.jpg)
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Thats excellent I feel not so lost now thanks guys Ill keep posting progress.
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hmm, looks like white oak.
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Lets hope so. ;D
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Are you chasing a ring on that? And why?
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I can answer that hawk, I sent the stave his way and the sapwood had some slight bug damage to it.
Kip
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Both staves had worm issues. The Pics were to show hopefully the type of wood hawk And the stave Im working on is the shorter stave 56"
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Ok...just making sure your not doing any unnecessary work......personally if I have to chase a ring on whitewood I won't use it 99% of the time...cus the beauty of whitewood is you don't have to chase a ring..but I'm sure its good practice for ya
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Another question.. whats better, one thick good ring, or 10-15 super skinny rings where its really hard to see where one ends and another begins?
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also i second what Christian Soldier said about rounding that handle. It sure aint comfortable gripping those edges.
I imagine a thicker ring is a better choice for the back of the bow ;D.
I've never chased a ring on a bow because i always use white wood. Yessir.
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Would I be able to keep the tips stiff? Or should I leave that alone for this one?
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stop overthinking this bow and build it, that's the only true way to learn, not trying to be a jerk, kinda comes natural ::), the point is at some point ya got to put rast to wood and start hoggin' >:D
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Well put.. nuff BS ;)
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Well done bubby.
I never understand the questions about dimensions and measuring and all that stuff. Just get the bow bending evenly at your draw length and weight that's that.
I'd get the tips bending but thats just me. Others like em stiff. You choose.
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Well heres where Im at with the Oak. The tillering jig isnt level so its hard to judge by looking at the peg board.
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Gettin her bending pretty good. Stay away from that slightly hingy spot on the left limb (7 pegboard dots out from the handle fade). Might just be an illusion because of the dots but watch that zone. Right limb looks a little stiff in the outer third of the limb.
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Got the string made and bow strung started some tillering and wanted to know if its even yet or not where its bending and where it isnt. Pay no attention to the dots they wont be any help nothing is square or level. ::)
The last two is to show where I think there is some twist in the limbs? twisting counterclockwise I think. All and any advise is GREATLY appreciated ;D
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Bend is lookin much better. Now you can thin those tips down to get them coming around. They look pretty heavy. That's the place I see that is still stiff. If you look at the belly tiller you can see that one ring that goes most of the length of the limb. You could probably take those tips down almost to that line. I'm finding out lately that it's nice to have a wood that you can see those rings on the belly so you can clearly read your thickness taper. Some white woods it's real hard to see that.
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Tiller is complete, and I shot it it tooksome set. Im thinkin maybe I could set back the handle?
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onemississipp.googlepges.com/bowwoods
this is tim bakers list of non bow wood, borderline wood and tru bow woods
Actually Bub I think this is the link that one did not work... ::) https://sites.google.com/site/onemississipp/bowwoods
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Did you heat treat it? How much set did it take?
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No not heat treated and it took I think like 2inches maybe. Heres the specs. 56" tip to tip, 50 lbs 1 1/2 wide
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Why did you leave the tips stiff?
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I heard or read it helps make a bow faster?