Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DuBois on January 15, 2013, 05:23:55 am

Title: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: DuBois on January 15, 2013, 05:23:55 am
40 inch branch about 4 inches in diameter that had a bend in the middle of it and a Y where it split into 2 branches at one end.
I split it and what I have now is a spliced 69"  billet stave made from the 2 sides of the branch.
The bottom limb has the natural bend away from the belly and the upper I steam bent to almost the same profile.
Upper limb is 31" and lower is 29.5"

Any help appreciated. Thanks, Marco D.

Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: Pappy on January 15, 2013, 06:31:13 am
First welcome,2nd pictures would help a lot,lots of pictures of profile and the problem areas you are going to have to deal with,hard to answer at least for me without seeing exactly what you are talking about. :) Bends can be straightened/holes can be plugged or delt with and cracks can be wrapped if in the right area, just would help to see them. :) Not much help am I. ??? ;) :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: Pappy on January 18, 2013, 08:20:09 am
Have you flipped the tips or is that the way the stave is? I would say if you cut the nocks at the line I see you should have no problem, may want to reinforce the tips with over lays but that is a non bending area and should be ok. Are you already to one ring on the back ? Looks pretty thick,so you have a lot to work with. :) That's a wicked looking stave,should be a bow in their. :) Keep us updated
and more pictures of back and front/side profile would help to see what you got. ;) ;D
   Pappy
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 18, 2013, 09:10:53 pm
Go slow and keep in mind what your doing now, and what it may effect later. The shape you have is a positive way to start the floor tiller process. After you get the limbs bending fairly even at about 80-90# on the floor you should run a string from tip to tip to get an idea of where it will lay and where you may need to heat up and move. Be careful around that nasty spot and work slow. If it stays ugly? Fill it with QUALITY super glue like Loc Tite or something. Keep filling it until it stops accepting it. Then keep tillering. Give it a day to dry through first.
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: ionicmuffin on January 18, 2013, 09:14:24 pm
wow, nice piece of sage there! looks like you could really have some fun with that one!
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: Marc St Louis on January 18, 2013, 09:35:34 pm
Looking good.  As long as you have carefully chased a back ring then you should be ok
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: DuBois on January 19, 2013, 06:22:11 pm
Hey, thanks everybody,

PD: I will take it slow. I've killed a few bows trying to cram in between wife, kids and work! I'll try the glue when I get that far.

Marc: I think the ring is a real good thick one and chased well but has a few nicks that I will sand out. Is that OK as long as I don't get all the way through?
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: Pappy on January 22, 2013, 08:18:24 am
Sand lightly,you don't want to thin the ring any more than you have to,any questionable spots I would wrap before starting to bend,even if it's a temporary wrap. Try and get all the nicks out and the back pristine before you start bending.  :) In the pictures the belly looks pretty rough also,I would try and get it smoothed out and limbs even before I started bending,try and get a good floor tiller before you go to the long string. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: DuBois on January 25, 2013, 11:48:22 am
new grub damage pics.
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: Pappy on January 25, 2013, 11:53:53 am
About all you can do is fill with super glue and sawdust and hope the tunnel they mad didn't go length ways.I usually take a small wire and put it the hole to try and determan how deep it is and how far it runs.I would also suggest wrapping it or backing it with something to be more safe. Worms suck. >:( :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: DuBois on January 28, 2013, 04:31:28 am
My first osage self bow will  have to wait.
I went ahead and backed it with goat hide after cleaning and filling the holes as Pappy said.
Thanks Pappy ;)
It looks kinda cool since some of the hide is almost clear and if all goes well and I finish this I am thinkin on keeping those areas in view 8)

Thanks to Gun Doc for the tip on backing a character stave with foam coozie pieces to compress the hide to the surface.

I had no extra coozies but I'm sure the wife won't even know there are 4 inches missing off the foam yoga mat  >:D
I'll post a new picture soon.
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: druid on January 28, 2013, 05:06:50 pm
What a stave.......  :)
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: DuBois on January 28, 2013, 09:51:44 pm
I had a bullet hole in this before backing. Should I fill it?
Title: Re: Osage character bow help.
Post by: DuBois on February 06, 2013, 02:46:55 am
She is ready for long string tiller now! :)
Holes flled, rawhide on, floor tillering strongly.
Center of bow right under where arrow will rest and I will grip it and upper limb is 1.5" longer than lower.
Should I keep the areas where the knots are and it curves away from the back from bending?
I never tillered anything like this!!
I'm gonna do it slow ths time ;)
Title: Re: Osage character bow is ready to tiller-help?
Post by: DuBois on February 11, 2013, 09:47:33 am
 >:D
Title: Re: Osage character bow is ready to tiller-help?
Post by: Will H on February 11, 2013, 09:57:21 am
Well go ahead and start getting her to bend on the ong string and take some pics. Then we can help more ;) otherwise my best on character bows like yours is "thickness taper is life" GO SLOW and take pics. :)
Title: Re: Osage character bow is ready to tiller-help?
Post by: DuBois on February 11, 2013, 08:13:09 pm
OK, thanks Will. I never asked for tillering help before.
It seems obvious now that you all would need pictures first, Duh!
I'll get on with it  ;)
Title: Re: Osage character bow is ready to tiller-help?
Post by: druid on February 12, 2013, 04:18:20 pm
I would realy like to help but any of these pictures I can not see full, all of them are too big for forum. :(
Title: Re: Osage character bow is ready to tiller-help?
Post by: DuBois on February 25, 2013, 08:18:49 am
OK, I feel a bit dumb to admit it, but I can't figure out how to secure this on my tillering set up without it flipping upside down on me as soon as I try to give it some pull.
I never done anyting with this much setback??
I guess I will have to get creative with some clamps or modify my crappy tillering set up.
It has been a bit cold in the garage here in Minnesota! Gotta get heat!

Any great ideas on how to keep this still while using the long string???
I gotta get this done but I don't want to do something stupid...again :o
Title: Re: Osage character bow is ready to tiller-help?
Post by: Pappy on February 25, 2013, 10:02:53 am
I alway use a tiller stick with long string[just lone enough to go from end to end] until I get it to low brace then go to the pully system.Seem easier to keep them from flipping.I just use some kind of wedge where the handle sets.I have seen folks clamp them down at the handle also. Never tried that. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 03, 2013, 09:07:10 pm
I had to do some improvements to my tillering system. Sorry about the poor background-I better get some blue paint or something behind it.
Anyway, finally got this on the long string and secured from flipping on me.
It is really heavy still but I have made too many weak bows or just plain ruined some.
First pic is no tension and the next is enough to make me sweat in a cold garage.

Keep going evenly until closer to weight?
I would be happy between 50 and 65 pounds.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: randman on March 05, 2013, 03:47:10 am
Alright! She's movin. If you're shootin for 50 or 60 lbs, don't pull over that. Do you have a pull scale on that setup so you know what weight you are pulling?
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 05, 2013, 04:06:06 am
No pull scale :(
I am just now realizing I need one.
I don't think I pulled it too much but probably near 50#.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: Pappy on March 05, 2013, 07:29:20 am
With that much reflex I would get it on a short string/low brace as soon as you can, don't worry about what the scale says right now,just get it braced, by the time you think it's about right you will be way under once it's braced. Take it for what its worth but on a highly reflexed stave it is very very easy to think it is much heaver that it really is because of the early draw weight. Looking good right now,if you plan on keeping it on the long string I would suggest shortening it where it will just reach from nock to nock.Tight long string will give you a better view of the way the limbs should work. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 05, 2013, 08:39:09 am
With that much reflex I would get it on a short string/low brace as soon as you can, don't worry about what the scale says right now,just get it braced, by the time you think it's about right you will be way under once it's braced. Take it for what its worth but on a highly reflexed stave it is very very easy to think it is much heaver that it really is because of the early draw weight. Looking good right now,if you plan on keeping it on the long string I would suggest shortening it where it will just reach from nock to nock.Tight long string will give you a better view of the way the limbs should work. :)
   Pappy

You saved me typing a bunch Pappy. I do this on all bows, highly reflexed or not. Get them tight string braced early, early, early. I rarely use a scale on my own bows until the bow is done, if even at all. I tiller until I like its full draw weight, whatever it is at the time.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 05, 2013, 09:43:15 am
Pappy and Pearlie,
Much appreciated!!
Will be focussed on this one from now on until done  >:D
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 07, 2013, 01:13:38 pm
So I am geting her bending a little more and I am wondering if I should fill this large area under the bulge or leave it as is? It is solid wood and the dark streak is where the pith was.
I am thinking I will leave it alone and not get anymore bend through that area and do the same on the other limbs knot which is just about the same spot since these are sister billets.
With this profile, should these areas be non or minimal bending?
What you think?

Thanks, Marco
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2013, 01:15:57 pm
Id fill it. Then scrape/rasp away until its tillered. What is left of it will be solid.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 07, 2013, 02:19:33 pm
OK Pearlie, I'll fll it with some good glue and dust ;)
Thanks mna :)
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2013, 02:32:25 pm
Skip the dust. Leave it solid glue, IMHO.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 07, 2013, 03:20:18 pm
OK will do.
Lock tite super glue or 2 ton epoxy?
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 07, 2013, 03:21:45 pm
Loctite would be my only choice.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 07, 2013, 03:26:04 pm
OK,
thanks again!
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 14, 2013, 02:17:20 pm
OK, I am wondering if I should cut the hook end off the upper limb.
It looks cool and I want to keep it but the upper limb is 31.5" compared to the lower at 29" and the hook is one half of where there was a bifurcation in the branch so the grain split there into a Y.

Would that be weaker?
Would I be wussin' out if I cut it off and made the limbs the same length?
It would be center shot right down the middle that way as opposed to slightly more left of center now.
I would rather have a well tillered functional bow than a broken or poor functioning bow so I am open to whatever you all think is best before I proceed.

Thanks, Marco DuBois
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: Gus on March 14, 2013, 04:28:37 pm
That is a Good Looking Yeller Stick ya have going...
And an Excellent Thread!
Watching and Learning.   :)

-gus
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 15, 2013, 02:26:03 am
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/001_zpse6cc4334.jpg)

Here's the long string progress. I keep having to fill little holes with super glue as I rasp off wood so it is slow going :-\
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow on long string-finally!
Post by: DuBois on March 15, 2013, 10:48:43 am
Probably hard to tell but what do you old timers think? Longer 31"upper limb on left. 29" lower on right.

That is a Good Looking Yeller Stick ya have going...
And an Excellent Thread!
Watching and Learning.   :)

-gus
Hey Gus, thanks! It's good to hear someone likes this thread.
As a new guy I sometimes wonder if my posts are just old stuff people have seen a hundred times and just annoying folks.
I'll be at it again when the cyano dries  ;)
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow long string tller?
Post by: SLIMBOB on March 15, 2013, 11:03:56 am
I for one never tire of reading these kind of threads.  Newbies (and old timers as well) working on bows and seeking advise...seems to me the highest purpose for this kind of forum.  Now, asking for advise, ignoring all of it, and making the same mistakes over and over...nah, I enjoy those as well, just on a different level. Good luck with your build.  Looks like a challenge :)
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow long string tller?
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 15, 2013, 11:20:47 am
The left limb looks pretty stiff half way to the tips to me. Use a straight edge and trust the gap it shows you, obviously use your brain around that funky spot near the fade on the left.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow first brace-finally!
Post by: DuBois on April 09, 2013, 10:00:18 pm
After filling worm holes and knots with super glue, then rasping off 90% of what I filled $#@** >:(, then filling again along with new worm holes, I have finally goten to this point.

Hows the tiller look to you guys that do character bows often?

(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/003_zps11fd20d5.jpg)
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow first brace-finally!
Post by: burchett.donald on April 09, 2013, 10:30:21 pm
 Take it slow dubois, I'm pulling for you on this. Want to see Doob-Wahhh at full draw. JMHO when I squint my eyes it looks like the knotty area to the fade on both limbs is a little stiff... outer is bending OK. Man that would make me nervous... >:D
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow first brace-finally!
Post by: paulsemp on April 09, 2013, 11:35:50 pm
Just my opinion, take it REAL slow on tillering. On those kinks/or knots you will not end up with a picture perfect bend. You will have a little stiff areas around those kinks. Exercise like crazy between wood removal. To me it appears that you are starting to get a whip tiller (if that is what you want) but I think you will get set in those outer limbs. Pics of it starting to bend would help.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow first brace-finally!
Post by: DuBois on April 11, 2013, 02:27:02 am
OK, captain lightweight strikes again. Pappy was right. It did seem real heavy right up until it was under weight all of a sudden-kinda deceptive with the reflex ::)
I was a bit whip tillered in the one limb and by the time I got it bending better I was about 25# at 15" and the other limb was still too stiff :'(
Had to flush the fashion and just go for survival. I had been considering piking the end anyway cause there was a lot of bug damage in them and it did make me nervous Don.
It now has equal 28" limbs with a 7.5" handle so it lost 5.5" but seem much more likely to make a good bow now.

Not where I wanted to go but still been a good trip with lessons.
Will post again soon with pics

Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow first brace-finally!
Post by: soy on April 11, 2013, 02:41:33 am
its funny how these projects tend to tell you what they want to be verses you making them what you want.... >:(
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow first brace-finally!
Post by: DarkSoul on April 11, 2013, 06:38:57 am
I agree with Paul that it appears to become pretty whip ended. Stay away from that last 12" of limb length on both limbs! I know you've changed the tiller already since you've taken that pic, but for what is worth it...
Tillering character bows is tricky. We need at least an unbraced, front profile and drawn picture to make any comments on the tiller. But preferably, we need to see it being drawn, as you would on a tiller tree, by making a movie for instance. Just a static picture of a character bow at full draw is useless for judging the tiller.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow first brace-finally!
Post by: Pappy on April 11, 2013, 08:09:45 am
Depending on what you are looking for 25@15 would't be to bad,should be close to 50 + @26.It is a bit wiped tillered,you need some more movement closer to the fads and mid limbs, the only problem is if you get it bending to much[any] to close to the fads the handle will pop.  :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: DuBois on May 16, 2013, 02:17:58 am
OK, I am now convinced that my current projects are beyond my current skills. I can't make a decent heavy bow to save my life. It is a testament to Osage that this survived me  :o
That being said, I did learn a lot from this and someday when I learn to pick better staves and how to tiller, I may be dangerous ;) Uh, in a good way :-\
At least I got the kids to have fun with it and they can have it to play with later.
30# at 28" and 64" t-t. Goat hide backing. Boot leather and rawhide rest and strike. It is not a dream to shoot.
It has at least a dozen grub holes filled with super glue on the belly.

Oh yeah, just so you know. It is not up for BOM. Enjoy....



(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/006_zps2a3b911a.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/006_zps2a3b911a.jpg.html)(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/005_zpsc6078dd4.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/005_zpsc6078dd4.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/004_zpsda7bba41.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/004_zpsda7bba41.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/002_zps23a208d0.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/002_zps23a208d0.jpg.html)
(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/011_zpsee4ff2ca.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/011_zpsee4ff2ca.jpg.html)(http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s662/mdubois7/Bows/014_zpsce966b9f.jpg) (http://s1311.photobucket.com/user/mdubois7/media/Bows/014_zpsce966b9f.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: ionicmuffin on May 16, 2013, 02:37:11 am
Sweet! that is awesome! I think having your kids decorate it was a great idea! Its definitely going to scare off the turkeys though!
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: Pappy on May 16, 2013, 07:07:47 am
At least you got a shooter,way to stay with it,most folks would have gave up and burned it. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on May 16, 2013, 07:39:35 am
Letting your kids finish the back makes it the best bow you could own, screw the details.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: SLIMBOB on May 16, 2013, 08:27:53 am
Looks like those kiddos had a blast with it.  Pretty special.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: autologus on May 16, 2013, 10:12:26 am
I love it, if it were mine it would be my most prized bow because my kids helped me with it.

Grady
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: robby on May 16, 2013, 10:20:51 am
That is the most nicely decorated bow I have ever seen!
Robby
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: Stringman on May 16, 2013, 10:50:58 am
Outstanding finish on that thing.   ;D ;)  Those little guys really know how to paint!
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: DuBois on May 16, 2013, 11:53:16 am
Hey, thanks folks.
It is amazing how the kids turn a failure into a success ;D Sure can't buy that in a store!
I will prize it for that reason forever.
I have the picture of us with the bow on my computer at work and it s a real booster for morale.

Ionic, I don't think it will ever get near a turkey :)

Thanks to you guys that instruct and encourage all us newbies. Sure can't buy that in a store either.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: ohma2 on May 16, 2013, 12:14:27 pm
way to go you stayed with it and got a bow and experience and alot of good memories for you and the kids to boot.
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: Carson (CMB) on May 16, 2013, 05:37:22 pm
Way to get the kiddos involved! 
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: Zion on May 16, 2013, 10:48:46 pm
Wow thats an awesome bow! The best finish work i've seen  ;)
Title: Re: Wormy Osage bow finished-laugh if you must!
Post by: Adam on May 16, 2013, 10:51:30 pm
There's nothing to laugh at there.  I agree with everyone else.  A bow that involved your family is the best type in my book.  It's things like this that make wood bows so much more interesting than modern ones to me.