Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: toomanyknots on January 12, 2013, 11:48:54 pm
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Here's a hackberry bow I am working on. It is 63 5/8" NTN. It is feeling like it will probably end up around 45# - 50# @ 28", probably closer to 45#. The stave was deflexed to begin with, as well as it seems to be a lighter piece of hackberry, so it will probably take a bit of set.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/DSCN0563.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/DSCN0567.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/DSCN0568.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/DSCN0571.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/DSCN0575.jpg)
There is a kink in the upper limb that causes it to be deflexed, as well as appear hinged off the fade, just to get that out there, as it does appear to be hinged, I don't know if these pictures will show it though.
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Never a stronger critic than the artist of his own work.
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Looks great. I like the amount of recurve. Sexy, if I may?
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I'd be very happy if I had a finished bow that looks as good as your "in progress" bow! Looks great!
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Never a stronger critic than the artist of his own work.
Very true.
Looks great. I like the amount of recurve. Sexy, if I may?
;D, I actually intended there to be more reflex when I made these reflex forms, but because it seems I screwed the forms up, it only bends in one spot really. Which pulled out almost completely on the last bow I made after tillering. Hackberry seems to keep it's reflex better though. I need to make some new reflex forms sometime.
I'd be very happy if I had a finished bow that looks as good as your "in progress" bow! Looks great!
I'm sure you've made plenty of bows that are way better than the pathetic bows I make, ;D. Heck, I still got plenty of time to screw this one up, ;).
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Looking good there Knots, rested and braced profiles are real nice. Think your on the right track for a fine bow.
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I cant wait to see how this one turns out. I have never used hackberry yet but i have a roughed out stave i traded blackhawk out of this last fall thats itching to be a bow.
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I have never worked hackberry. How would you describe it?
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I have never worked hackberry. How would you describe it?
It's cooking dead skunk, Stinky And Easy to skin.
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how easy is it to chase a ring? i have a few pieces that i want to use up and make something nice, im considering using those because they look durable.
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Looking real good! I like those home-made forms too.
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I cant wait to see how this one turns out. I have never used hackberry yet but i have a roughed out stave i traded blackhawk out of this last fall thats itching to be a bow.
I have never worked hackberry. How would you describe it?
Hackberry is a fine wood, but you can't treat it like osage, plain and simple. Although it doesn't have to by any means, typically it will take some set if you don't heat treat it (which I never do). But it will more than make up for it in performance if you do it right IMO. It must be nice and dry too. Although it tends to take some set, it is a very light wood, and can make a very light in the hand, fast shooting, zero handshock bow. When you brace up a nice springy 60# hackberry bow for the first time, you know you got a wicked bow, as the bow has the draw weight of a 60# bow, but feels like it has the physical weight of a childrens bow made of other woods like hickory/hhb/elm/even denser red oak, etc... >:D. Now to get around the set, you have to go either longer or wider. I usually chose to go longer as the length really doesn't slow the bow down typically because the wood is so physically light. And I think length has a bigger effect on the stresses of a bow verses width, for the most part. I mean IMO you have to go pretty darn wide to reach the same stress reduction as if you went a little bit longer, if that makes any sense... ...Ya, I'm not the best at explaining things, 8). Like, if I wanna make a zero set hackberry flatbow, of around 60# draw weight at 28", I will:
- Make the bow 70" if the bow has a stiff handle
- Throw the bow in the hot box the day before tillering. Remember, if you tiller a bow right out of the hot box, depending on how hot it gets, you can actually induce set from the bow being so hot. You gotta wait until the bow has cooled down completely.
- Than just proceed as normal, typically I like a pyramid design. Maybe 2" or so at the fades, most likely.
IMO, this bow I am making is under built if I didn't want any set (once again, no heat treating here. Not even considering it's natural deflex as well). As it is only 63 5/8" NTN, and it is not working on the last 4" or so of each limb. It is also a very low density piece of hackberry. Some pieces are better than others, just like all species of wood. Unless I went with a lighter draw weight, which I really didn't wanna do, although I probably should of. I do plan to pick up a heat gun soon though, so I can stop mis-treating staves, ;D.
EDIT: Regarding the physical weight, if you've ever worked mulberry, than they are similar in density I usually find. Mulberry might tend to be a tiny bit lighter sometimes.
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Looking real good! I like those home-made forms too.
Thank ya Hrothgar! Ionicmuffin, I have never chased a ring on hackberry, so I don't really know, but I imagine if the rings were pretty thick, than it would probably be nice and easy, as hackberry is pretty easy wood to work. Although you really shouldn't have to chase a ring for any reason on hackberry.
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well, i have some bug holes in one ::) and the other is a split that should yield a bow
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Looking good to me,I have chased it before for the same reason ,pretty easy to follow. :)
Pappy
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Looking good to me,I have chased it before for the same reason ,pretty easy to follow. :)
Pappy
Thank ya Pappy! Well, I got this one tillered out and all burnished up, and basically ready for waxing and throwing a handle on, and calling it done. Unfortunately I will have to wait to get a full draw photo. I don't use my tiller tree anymore, except to check draw weight, just because I feel it adds unnecessary set. (Been using a mirror for 100% of the tillering, and I am loving it.) I should probably have some finished pictures sometime friday or saturday,... :( Anyway, I added a paduak shelf to match the overlays. I am going with a little over an 1/8" positive tiller with this one, and I am hoping that works out.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/DSCN0601.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/DSCN0602.jpg)
Here's some pictures of another hackberry bow I am working on at the moment. This is the first one I did using a new recurve from I made. It kinda looked weird at first, but I think the bow turned out pretty good, so far anyway. I have yet to shoot it still. It is 64 5/8" NTN, and feels like it will be pulling 50# - 60# when finished. It pulls really really smooth. At first I thought I screwed up the recurve forms, but after getting it braced, I think I will use these forms again.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0289.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0293.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0301.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0297.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0303.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0313.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0588.jpg)
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(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0585.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0584.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0590.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0592.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0603.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0597.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0593.jpg)
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Thx for posting yur build and all the pix, great stuff.
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Mmmmm, can't wait to see the full draw pics on this one, buddy!
I really like your work and I'm especially fond of hackberry. It's almost as if you planned on making this bow according to my preferences.
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I really like it too. Again, sexy. Do you intend the recurves to work alittle? Good info on the hackberry too..........
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Are you tempering that stuff yet? It'll make a world of difference with hackberry,and you'll love the results....especially with a more stressed design starting with that much reflex.
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Are you tempering that stuff yet? It'll make a world of difference with hackberry,and you'll love the results....especially with a more stressed design starting with that much reflex.
I used to heat treat bows on my stove, but I never liked the look of a burnt up bow. In most situations, unless the bow is very over stressed, I would rather take my inch or so of set and live with it. I might buy a heat gun and heat treat a couple shorter hackberry recurves, but the more I think on it, the more I think I am going to pass on it. I guess I would rather prefer my bows mushy as you've called my bows before, rather than look like they've survived a house fire, ;).
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Thx for posting yur build and all the pix, great stuff.
No problem, thank you!
Mmmmm, can't wait to see the full draw pics on this one, buddy!
I really like your work and I'm especially fond of hackberry. It's almost as if you planned on making this bow according to my preferences.
Thank ya! Ya, I like how I really only gotta find one or two good tree's of it too, and I'm good for the year. I really like how it takes to steaming too, you can bend the ba-jesus out of it, rather easily.
I really like it too. Again, sexy. Do you intend the recurves to work alittle? Good info on the hackberry too..........
Thank ya steve. When tillering this bow, I left the recurves a bit thicker, so that they will be static, although they always pull out just a bit. Well, these haven't much yet, but I still have to shoot it in, and do some final sanding. I hopefully will get the handled shaped, and get it shot it and almost finished today. If my wife is in a good mood when she gets home from school, maybe I can con a couple fulldraw pictures out of her, ;D. I'm pretty pleased with set so far, I have pulled it probably to probably 29" a bunch of times, and only have about a 1" set. Which ain't super bad I guess. Mostly because I am thinking it still had a bit of moisture. And also because I am pulling it pretty far. It is kinda a bad habit when checking tiller in my mirror though, to pull it farther than I probably should, as I watch the bend.
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Mt first Hackberry bow I made was about 3 years ago. I actually helped a guy make the bow. 2" wide parallel limbs, around 64" long. 2" or so of reflex ended up around 3" of string follow. Been heat treating them since, and I can go shorter and/or narrower with almost no string follow. My thinking was like yours for a while on this "heat tempering thing". Gotta tell ya though, I would never make another Hackberry bow if I didn't temper it. It makes that much of a difference. Just IMO for what it's worth.
Sweet lookin' bows BTW.
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If performance isnt a priorioty, but appearance is, then not tempering your bow is a good choice.
I have noticed most of the darker color nearly disappears with a stain applied, you hardly see it.
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Mt first Hackberry bow I made was about 3 years ago. I actually helped a guy make the bow. 2" wide parallel limbs, around 64" long. 2" or so of reflex ended up around 3" of string follow. Been heat treating them since, and I can go shorter and/or narrower with almost no string follow. My thinking was like yours for a while on this "heat tempering thing". Gotta tell ya though, I would never make another Hackberry bow if I didn't temper it. It makes that much of a difference. Just IMO for what it's worth.
Sweet lookin' bows BTW.
Honestly, I just don't like how it looks, is the only reason. Not arguing with you an blackhawk about the advantage by any means. I've seen the beautiful reflex Marc St'Louis's bows always hold, and I've read the chapter he wrote in TBB on heat treating, and a thread he has posted on heat treating here. I just never liked the look of a burnt up bow? ??? I'm sure I'll give it another go when I get a heat gun though.
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If you temper it and do it right it won't look all burnt up. You can temper it some time between floor tiller and right before ya brace it,and by the time you finish tillering it out most if not all the color will be gone,yet you still get the advantages and much better set results than not tempering at all...that solves your aesthetic issue...that is how I do most of mine,and most the time will not lose anymore than 2" of total set just like with any other wood. I rarely temper twice...its usually once after a good nice even floor tiller.
I'm just trying to help ya out man..I'm not being demeaning to you.
As far as the mushy thing goes,that was not a comment on your bows...that was in a debate.over someone else's thread who wanted to get rid of some follow in an already over stressed bow,and adding curves will just make it worse and the limbs more "mushy".
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If you temper it and do it right it won't look all burnt up. You can temper it some time between floor tiller and right before ya brace it,and by the time you finish tillering it out most if not all the color will be gone,yet you still get the advantages and much better set results than not tempering at all...that solves your aesthetic issue...that is how I do most of mine,and most the time will not lose anymore than 2" of total set just like with any other wood. I rarely temper twice...its usually once after a good nice even floor tiller.
I'm just trying to help ya out man..I'm not being demeaning to you.
As far as the mushy thing goes,that was not a comment on your bows...that was in a debate.over someone else's thread who wanted to get rid of some follow in an already over stressed bow,and adding curves will just make it worse and the limbs more "mushy".
So you remember... ;) ...pretty sure you were talking about my bows, specifically a hackberry bow I was building at the time, that had been denounced by pearl drums and you as impossible to patch, even though I had patched many before, and was fully aware of what I was doing? Here's the thread:
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/reply/431314/Re-Recurving-a-warbow#.UPgikPIrcwo
"@toomanyknots....dude...im speaking from experience and from what I have seen...im not acting and regurgitating info....and go ahead and waste your time sinewing your tension cracked across the back mushy hackberry limbs and dont heed the advice from some experienced guys."
LOL, Anyhoo blackhawk...., ;D, The bows I've heat treated, I followed Marc St'Louis's example, but with my stove. Even when browning slightly only, I still ended up with it being pretty obvious, which to my tastes, just don't look very pretty. Also, my best results with heat treating was after the bow was fully tillered anyway. I am sure my results would benefit from alot more practice, and also a less crude set up than my stove top. I'm sure my lack of experience with heat treating can be blamed for my results as well. Aesthetically though, I think it looks ok on a primitive bow, but on a longbow or something, it just looks ugly. Just my personal OCD opinion. The way I been tillering bows lately, and have had a good amount of success with in regards of set, by the time I string the bow, I am already down to where it needs only a couple scraps and some final sanding. Which is probably over longstring tillering it, I know. But it seems to keep set down alot. I would probably end up with alot of burnt wood on the belly I'm thinking though, the way I have been making bows like this lately. But like I said, I will give it another go when I get a heat gun. As the results yall get with heat treating speak for themselves, once again, absolutely no argument there, :). If I was making this bow 100% for performance anyway though, I wouldn't of added overlays at all, and I would of added two or three layers of sinew as well to the inner limbs, making sure to sinew in reflex, one layer at a time, one month at least between layers. I would probably do a cord wrap or a naked handle instead of leather that will just get mucked up eventually in the rain too. Definitely no shelf. ...And I would of definitely heat treat the belly, >:D >:D >:D.
If performance isnt a priorioty, but appearance is, then not tempering your bow is a good choice.
I have noticed most of the darker color nearly disappears with a stain applied, you hardly see it.
That is a good point. But in this particular situation, I am not going to lose any sleep over an inch of set.
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You shouldnt be bragging about all the bows you have patched man! SSSSHHHHH....that stuff is suppose to be a secret, kinda like missing deer and stuff. Never did hear back on that patch job, I figured you would rub my nose in it since I was wrong about it working out.
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Yup...hackberry is mushy alright....if not heat treated ;) even you admit this. Not that it matters cus that/this has nothing to do with the discussion here...but your thread there was spilled comments about the previous thread I had mentioned about someone else's post..not yours. And it doesn't surprise me that you actually took the time to find something that's totally irrelevant to what's being discussed.
Alright..ill say this out in the open....you obviously have a passion/obsession/addiction about building bows...and its obvious you want to make a better bow....but your like an addict who knows he has a problem,but doesn't want to hear the solution to fix his problem. People try to help you and give you honest advice,and you shun them away with a defensive attitude. Please try not to take things and constructive criticism so personal. A lot of folks will stop trying to help someone when they won't listen and take there advice when its being asked for.
It don't bother me none if you don't temper hackberry...if your fine and happy with the results of having "mushier" limbs then keep on keeping on....;)
Oh...boy oh boy....I started a war now...lol. :laugh:
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i have a bunch of hackberry that i want to try. enough to make 3 bows. Im thoroughly excited by your work and will be doing some when i get around to it.
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Also, this discussion made me think of another thing that I can't make up my mind on sometimes. Which would be how exactly to measure string follow or set with flipped tips or recurves. Not reflex, but recurves, or slightly recurved outer limbs, like in these two bows. The way I personally do it, is to lay the bow down on a flat surface, on the back of the handle, with the back of the bow against something flat, or if the recurves won't allow it, next to and in line with something flat, like a long piece of lumber or a kitchen counter. I then measure the area between the most deflexed part of the limb and the flat surface, not the distance from the recurve or the nock to the flat surface, like I know alot of people do. I think this give a better reflection of the performance of a bow, and it's potention early draw weight, more than measuring from the nock/recurve. Like this:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/SetMeasurementmethod.jpg)
Is this the right way? Is this the wrong way?
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i dont think you can measure that as set, since the overall profile of the bow has the tips in front of the handle. the bow would have taken set all along the limb, but the positive recurved tips cancels out the set
and as for measuring the set, thats how i determine if my bow has set or not. most of my bows i didnt recurve, so they took tremendous set (2-3 inches) I just recently finished recurving a bow, and to my surprise, it took out 2 inches of set! now its down to a little under 1 inch
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I look at set as the distance between the back of the tips to the fat surface minus the back of the handle to the same flat surface. Recurved or not, I measure my set that way.
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how does that work sleek? i need a visual ::)
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Serriously?
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Alright..ill say this out in the open....you obviously have a passion/obsession/addiction about building bows...and its obvious you want to make a better bow....but your like an addict who knows he has a problem,but doesn't want to hear the solution to fix his problem.
First, I'm just trying to have a discussion with other like minded "addicts", so please calm down. Just joking around, no antagonistic intent. Second, I wasn't aware I had a problem, but thank you. ;) I'll say this out in the open, I've made plenty of bows out of hackberry with 1/4" to zero string follow, and just because you can't, or refuse to design hackberry to something other than an osage bows design and then talk crap about it like it's the woods fault when you can't make a good bow out of it without toasting it, doesn't mean I can't. Honestly. And I've explained ten times now my own personal thoughts on heat treating, and why I am not heat treating this bow over 1" of set on my stove right now, and am a bit puzzled over your taking offense to that?
People try to help you and give you honest advice,and you shun them away with a defensive attitude.
I thought we were having a discussion, but I guess if you wanna get all personal about it, then thats on you. I would however like to suggest that you read my post before you get your pantys in a bunch and take offense at nothing. I never disagreed with anything you said, and still don't, so I don't really know how I offended you. It's not like I called your bow "mushy" or anything, >:D.
You shouldnt be bragging about all the bows you have patched man! SSSSHHHHH....that stuff is suppose to be a secret, kinda like missing deer and stuff. Never did hear back on that patch job, I figured you would rub my nose in it since I was wrong about it working out.
LOL, Well I figured after you convinced me to pull a 66" long hackberry recurve out to 32" just to prove my point, undoubtedly adding unnecessary set, that you had ended up getting the best of me on that one in the end, ;D. I ended up sinewing the entire bow though just to be sure. I posted pictures and stuff.
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yes seriously!
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My pic would look just like toomanyknots. Only I would measure the distance from the tips to the table, and the distance from the handle to the table. One of those will be resting on the the table, depending on how recurved or not it is. Then, after shooting the bow, do it again. The difference in distance is what I would call set. I really cant draw it out for you, I wouldnt know ow to do any better than he did, only I measure all my distances from the back of the tips to the flat surface and compare that to the distance of the back of the handle to the flat surface.
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i dont think you can measure that as set, since the overall profile of the bow has the tips in front of the handle. the bow would have taken set all along the limb, but the positive recurved tips cancels out the set
See, but it cancels it out in some situations, but in others, it does not. Like for this bow, the string at brace would rest on the belly right before the recurve begins, not at the tips. With a bow like this (just theoretically, for the sake what I am trying to explain) the string would rest on the belly right before the recurve begins, and the nock would be about 3" or so from the flat surface at brace, even when the string was at a 6" brace height? See what I mean?
EDIT: This means it would not take as much force at all to brace, the bow would not have to bend much at all, which means not much early draw weight.
I don't know, it's confusing to me. Like, if I measured it like that, than the first bow and especially the second bow in this thread could be said to hold a good deal reflex right now. Which IMO ain't really that honest, because the working limbs have set, and neither bow most likely shoots like a similar bow with true reflex through out the entire limbs, and neither of them have the added early draw weight that a bow that was evenly reflexed 4" or so through out the entire limbs would have? You know what I mean?
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Serriously?
yes seriously!
LOL
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i realized that knots, thats what has happened to my bow. it has set but its been greatly reduced. if the tips dont touch the wall but the handle does then it has set, if the tips touch but the handle doesnt then you have reflex, thats how i view it
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Megadeath or Metallica? Thats what really matters..........says alot about a guy.
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>:D :laugh:
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/Stirring-the-pot-80376509573.gif)
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i realized that knots, thats what has happened to my bow. it has set but its been greatly reduced. if the tips dont touch the wall but the handle does then it has set, if the tips touch but the handle doesnt then you have reflex, thats how i view it
So if the the tips touch but the handle doesn't to start..and the handle still ends up not touching but moving closer after all said n done what is that called?.... is that reflex too?...please educate me.
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Megadeath or Metallica? Thats what really matters..........says alot about a guy.
Neither...those bands are for mainstream sissy boys......underground punk rock n scream-o all the way baby >:D
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lost reflex? im still a noob at all of this. :P but in my opinion, i believe that so long as the tips come out in front of the handle then its over all profile has recurve. reflex i guess ive been mixing up, the reflex would be the limbs in there entirety being in front of the handle i guess ive been a bit hasty in speaking my mind. guess you guys are right, recurved tips isnt removing the set, although the profile is more reflex deflex right? vs what happens when sinew pulls in reflex
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Once your down in Texas, Bob Wills is still the King. (And yes,he preferred Osage)
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Wait wait wait... new metallica or old? Coause if its new, then megadeath, but old metallica is waaayyyy better. And did I mention, what a lovely stick toomanyknots has made?
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Well I finagled a full draw photo out of my cranky tired wife. (This is the second bow, I gotta make a new string for the first one.) I guess Ionicmuffin, that the recurves do work a bit after comparing the full draw photo to the unbraced photo. Also, the full draw angle is off a bit on the bottom limb, as usual. Most likely from me canting the bow.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0610.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0625.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0628.jpg)
Also, I never figured out if "screamo" was just a play on the word emo to poke fun at emo, or an actual genre, where emo's whine and cry/complain louder than normally, ;). Hope I never find out. 8)
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Looks molly like from the side with such a long flipped section, how wide are the tips?
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thats awesome! looks similar to the one i did, however, the one i did has the handle in front of the tips because of the set from the limbs. Very nice work!
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Looks molly like from the side with such a long flipped section, how wide are the tips?
Currently, about 3/8" or so at the base of the overlay, and then tapers to probably 1 1/4" or so when it starts bending. Ya, all the leverage benefit of a molly, with the bonus of the added outer limb weight of a non-molly. :)
thats awesome! looks similar to the one i did, however, the one i did has the handle in front of the tips because of the set from the limbs. Very nice work!
Thank ya Ionicmuffin. ;D
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I do like me some hackberry. Yours looks nice, but if it was mine, and looking at the full draw, that I like, I would cut at least an inch and a half off that thing and just sand it all a bit. It looks like a screamer and I think what you got could be pushed into an ultimate hunting weapon.
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Looks nice TMK.
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Love. I predict arrow will fly to your right........:)
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What arrow? I only see a fence post with a head dress tied on?
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I do like me some hackberry. Yours looks nice, but if it was mine, and looking at the full draw, that I like, I would cut at least an inch and a half off that thing and just sand it all a bit. It looks like a screamer and I think what you got could be pushed into an ultimate hunting weapon.
Thanks Dvshunter! Honestly, I think if I could go back in time, I would rather add a couple inches to the working limbs instead to cut down on set, ;D. I might consider it though, but if I cut the limbs down now, I would have to redo the overlays (I'm too lazy, ;) ) Thank you for the complements.
Looks nice TMK.
Thank ya Bob! And ya, I know it would of turned out alot better with some heat treated reflex, ;).
Love. I predict arrow will fly to your right........:)
Thank ya!
What arrow? I only see a fence post with a head dress tied on?
lol, ya I think my siding makes my arrow look a bit thicker than normal. It's a 3/8 shaft, about 30" long. I guess that still ain't tiny.
Looks great ,TMK. Your tip work is lookin' real good lately........well maybe not just lately.....could be I just noticed :)
Thank ya!
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That's funny, I've been there before too. The tips or something else didn't sit right with me but I was to lazy to fix it. Lol its sometimes easier to just build another bow right. >:D
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Ok, I finally got these two done. They both came in at 50# @ 28". I still need to measure for set, it is around and inch to an inch and a half or so with each bow. Both are great shooters. First one:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0868.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0834.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0851.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0870.jpg)
I added a paduak shelf:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0792.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0793.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0798.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0804.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0811.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0818.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/DSCN0833.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/1.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20non%20contact%20recurve%20paduak%20nocks%2050%20LBS/2.jpg)
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looks good Daniel.
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...And number 2, also 50# @ 28", 64 5/8" NTN, horn shelf, calf hair arrow pass:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0886.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0888.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0898.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0718.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0693.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0933.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0678.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0682.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0742.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0744.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0769.jpg)
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looks good Daniel.
Thank ya Steve. Heres a couple more:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0726.jpg)
Heres the fulldraw, I know I already posted it, but I feel weird finishing a build without posting a fulldraw at the end,? :o
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/DSCN0914.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20new%20recurve%20form%20bow/1.jpg)
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They both look nice, but I really like those red tips on the first one!
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...And here's soon to be hackberry number 3, >:D, a nice set back handled hackberry:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20setback%20handle%20bow/DSCN0632.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20setback%20handle%20bow/DSCN0631.jpg)
They both look nice, but I really like those red tips on the first one!
Thank you!
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i like them all.i think you are doing a killer job on that hackberry bro.they all have a sweet profile.great job.
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i just want to add,your handle wraps are turning out awesome.very nice brother.
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i like them all.i think you are doing a killer job on that hackberry bro.they all have a sweet profile.great job.
i like them all.i think you are doing a killer job on that hackberry bro.they all have a sweet profile.great job.
Thank ya! ;D
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Wow! Real nice bows Knots, both of em' :) :) :) Look to be sweet shooters also.
Greg
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Love. I predict arrow will fly to your right........:)
Thank ya!
I hope you got my, joke, that the arrow was on the right side of the bow.......not that the bow is wrong in someway and going to shoot right?...... O:)
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Love. I predict arrow will fly to your right........:)
Thank ya!
I hope you got my, joke, that the arrow was on the right side of the bow.......not that the bow is wrong in someway and going to shoot right?...... O:)
Lol, yes I got it, ;D.
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You are a great craftsman, for sure. I gadda point out though, something looks off on that second bows tiller. Is the lower limb shorter by an inch? Lower limb seems to bend a bit more than the upper?
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You are a great craftsman, for sure. I gadda point out though, something looks off on that second bows tiller. Is the lower limb shorter by an inch? Lower limb seems to bend a bit more than the upper?
I don't know about that great craftsman thing, ;D. Maybe I am a great crapsman, because I am great at making crappy bows. :) Kinda looks like it maybe about the tiller though, probably is. May be the angle of the photo though, or that I nocked my arrow at an upward angle. The limbs are the same length. The bow has about 1/4" positive tiller, so I would not think the bottom limb would bend more. Either way, it pulls balanced and shoots straight, so I am happy with it.
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Shut up and take the compliment, knothead! Your craftsmanship is enviable. Those are some very lovely bows that undoubtably would perform admirably.
I love the way you take advantage of hackberry's ability to sand down to a supersmooth finish, the glossy finish makes them look superclean! The tip overlays really put the icing on the cake.
Anyone with a lick of horse sense would be proud to carry one of these bows, tmk. Thanks for sharing with us.
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Shut up and take the compliment, knothead! Your craftsmanship is enviable. Those are some very lovely bows that undoubtably would perform admirably.
I love the way you take advantage of hackberry's ability to sand down to a supersmooth finish, the glossy finish makes them look superclean! The tip overlays really put the icing on the cake.
Anyone with a lick of horse sense would be proud to carry one of these bows, tmk. Thanks for sharing with us.
No problem, thanks for taking a peak at some of my bows, ;). I am actually working on a group of five, so there are 3 more on their way as well. Hopefully anyway, I don't wanna jinx myself or anything now, ;D. I kinda decided I would just keep all the hackberry's I am making in the same thread, instead of making different threads for a bunch of basically the same bow.
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Those look really nice, good work!
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Those hackberry bows are looking real nice TMK.
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Those look really nice, good work!
Those hackberry bows are looking real nice TMK.
Thank you guys! Well, I ended up sanding through the back ring in a tiny spot next to a knot on the set back handle bow (ya I know, I somehow found a hackberry with a knot? Thats my luck I guess, :) ). I had linen or sinew on hand, and since this bow is kinda funky to begin with, I decided to go with linen.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20setback%20handle%20bow/DSCN0949.jpg)
So this bow was thrown on the back burner for a day or so, and in the mean time I decided to work on another hackberry static recurve. I forget the exact length, but it was like 64" or 63" or so end to end. At first it was anyway. The black overlay material is horn, once again. I started with this:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN0942.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN0944.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN0943.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN0945.jpg)
...And then promptly screwed the nocks up by making them too thin and weak, and one broke while I was floor tillering. Which I should of just broke them off before hand and made some new ones, as I really don't know what I was thinking in the first place. So now I have this:
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN0953.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN0954.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN0957.jpg)
...Which basically kills the whole bow for me, as I am not really loving the nocks. Oh well. I will post some more pics once I get er tillered and all...
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Set back handle is my favourite. Good work man...
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Set back handle is my favourite. Good work man...
Thank ya druid, :). I'm thinking of throwing some snake skins on top of the linen backing on that one. I should have it tillered and ready to go in a couple days, so I should have a fulldraw pic up in a little bit, ;).
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Temper, temper, temper! .................You know what they say, "Once you go toasted, you dont go back."
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Temper, temper, temper! .................You know what they say, "Once you go toasted, you dont go back."
;D I know it, a heat gun is on this weeks grocery list, ;).
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nothing wrong with the cherokee nock look bud. I like it.
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nothing wrong with the cherokee nock look bud. I like it.
I like em too, but I think it looks kinda goofy with the overlay. I was quite happy with my longer recurves that I started with too, plus I lost a good 2" or so of length, which ain't great either. It is now 59 3/4" NTN. I am thinkin it really shouldn't go past 26" draw if I know whats good for me?
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is it going to bend in the handle?
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is it going to bend in the handle?
At this time, no.
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then it makes sense to keep it at 26 inch draw. :/
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hey toomanyknottsberryfarm, don't matter if you think you screwed the pooch with the horn overlays, it still looks good to me. You did a great job of getting some radical bend in those limbs!
I can't wait to see this one when you have given it your usual fine detail oriented finish work. She's gonna shine, and I'd bet this dog will hunt!
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hey toomanyknottsberryfarm, don't matter if you think you screwed the pooch with the horn overlays, it still looks good to me. You did a great job of getting some radical bend in those limbs!
I can't wait to see this one when you have given it your usual fine detail oriented finish work. She's gonna shine, and I'd bet this dog will hunt!
;D Hopefully it'll survive. It's pretty wide, so hopefully that'll help. Wish me luck...
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You got skills, save the luck for the ladies.
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You got skills, save the luck for the ladies.
Haha, I don't know which joke is funnier, you saying I got any skills, or you saying I have any luck with the ladies. I hardly even get lucky with my wife anymore, >:D.
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Ya know, I only draw 25 inches and am happy with anything 40 to 55 lbs if that helps ;)
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Real nice shooter knots... I really enjoy working hackberry and like shootin it more ;)
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This was a crazy awesome post of progress and end results. Thanks very much for the insight and incredible outcome!
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Well here is first brace. At full brace unfortunately, since I miscalculated string length, 2 1/2" shorter then NTN length gave me a 6" brace height somehow? What happened there? ::)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN0962.jpg)
Looks like the left limb is hinging a bit. Which is kinda weird as it didn't look hinged at all in person, braced or tiller wise. I will check it out tomorrow though. I will try my best to get this guy done and shooting in the next few days, and move on back to the setback handle hackberry. So many hackberry's... :o
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The sharper recurves did it. That's why a shorter string made for a higher brace. The bow nocks are on a higher plane than the string rests at.
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Okee Dokey, got this guy done. 59 3/4" nock to nock, ended up coming in at 50# @ 26", probably around 55 or so at 28", maybe 60-ish. Only measured out to 26" though. Took some set, of course, ;). (Although this is measuring from the belly to a flat surface, when having the belly of the limbs up against something flat. It is not measuring from the nocks, if I measured that way, then this bow would have a couple inches reflex, but I don't like to count that on static recurves.) Anyway, upper limb has 1 7/8" set, bottom limb has 1 3/4" set. Another boring leather handle, calf hair arrow pass, linen string, yadda yadda... Oh yeah, also, 1/4" positive tiller.
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN1124.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN1107-1.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN1066.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN1083.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN1017.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN1019.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN1020.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN1114.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb392/toomany7/Hackberry%20recurve%20with%20the%20screwed%20up%20nocks/DSCN0976-1.jpg)
...Ok, now I will get started on that linen backed setback handle hackberry. I am thinking I will skin it if it turns out nice.
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Nice tiller! Glad to see ya cleaned up fir the money shot...:)
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Temper, temper, temper! .................You know what they say, "Once you go toasted, you dont go back."
;D I know it, a heat gun is on this weeks grocery list, ;).
Did ya pick up that heat gun yet?....now if we only can convince you to start tempering these babies they'll be golden ;)
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Great tiller and very sweet curves. Do you need my address?? >:D
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Sweet lines on that baby as all yours have.
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good lookin stuff here tmk. I love me some hackberry. Get that heat gun after 'em and you'll never look at hackberry the same! I got the cheapest heat gun i could find and it's had LOTS of hours of runnin without a single issue.
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Temper, temper, temper! .................You know what they say, "Once you go toasted, you dont go back."
;D I know it, a heat gun is on this weeks grocery list, ;).
Did ya pick up that heat gun yet?....now if we only can convince you to start tempering these babies they'll be golden ;)
Thank ya black hawk. I think I'm gonna plead the fifth on that though, ;D.
Nice tiller!
Thank ya pearl.
Glad to see ya cleaned up fir the money shot...:)
Ya, I was startin to look like one of those guys from that new hobbit movie, with the 2 foot long beard N all. ;D
Great tiller and very sweet curves. Do you need my address?? >:D
Thank ya! Hehe, I thought you were the one needin my address?, seeing as you got all that annoying yew that you just hate, and just need to get rid of... >:D
Sweet lines on that baby as all yours have.
Thank ya slimbob. Aint near as sweet as that molly you just posted though, :).
good lookin stuff here tmk. I love me some hackberry. Get that heat gun after 'em and you'll never look at hackberry the same! I got the cheapest heat gun i could find and it's had LOTS of hours of runnin without a single issue.
Thank ya Khat. Ya, steve on here from middletown turned me on to one from menards thats about 20 bucks. It's on the list. ;)
EDIT: One thing I don't like about this bow is that the handle is way too big I think. I keep doing that, I will mark a 4" or even 3 1/2" handle, and will somehow end up with 7" or 8" of handle. It is a hard habit to break. I also botched the tiller on this one, and had to flip limbs, as the stronger lower limb had to be corrected so much, that it became the weaker upper limb. If this hadn't of happened, I think it might of turned out with a little less string follow. Maybe.
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Knots, you need to edit the title from ...in progress to DONE! You did a great job on this bow man! I really like the overall color and look of it- au natural!
Tracy
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Nice looking bow.
I have a few hackberry stave to work and hope they come out looking half that good.
Never work with hackbery before.
I'll have to keep this one of yours in mind when the time comes.
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Worked on a hackberry stave this past weekend for the first time. Softer than any white wood I've ever worked. Like making a bow out of a marshmallow! Hopefully I'll be able to put some weight back on by heat treating it and adding some recurves. Good to see you're able to make it work for you.
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Very nice bow Knots. Great lines, well tillered and all around good looks. Real skilled work man.
Greg
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Knots, you need to edit the title from ...in progress to DONE! You did a great job on this bow man! I really like the overall color and look of it- au natural!
Tracy
Thank ya!
Nice looking bow.
I have a few hackberry stave to work and hope they come out looking half that good.
Never work with hackbery before.
I'll have to keep this one of yours in mind when the time comes.
Thank ya Don!
Worked on a hackberry stave this past weekend for the first time. Softer than any white wood I've ever worked. Like making a bow out of a marshmallow! Hopefully I'll be able to put some weight back on by heat treating it and adding some recurves. Good to see you're able to make it work for you.
Just like any other wood, just like you can find bad pieces of yew (not that I would know a lick about a piece of yew though), quality varies from tree to tree. I have worked pieces like that. They are usually visibly very white, and lighter than normal. The better pieces of hackberry are usually a little grey instead of white, most of the time with blue streaks through out them, are typically are a little denser, and can take more of a beating before giving in to string follow. Both will make wicked fast bows though. Normally hackberry should be harder than red oak or the maple you get at home depot. Speaking of red oak, thats another wood that can vary like night and day. The wood needs to be nice and drier than other woods I think, you really need to hotbox hackberry before working it. Which reminds me I need to build a hotbox.
Very nice bow Knots. Great lines, well tillered and all around good looks. Real skilled work man.
Greg
Thank you Greg!
[IMG] (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99170637@N06/9329045116/)
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Just so ya know, my draw is 25 inches, that baby would fit me fine ;)
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Those are some pretty sharp hack sticks too many! Nice work! Josh