Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: Dean Marlow on January 08, 2013, 01:07:36 pm
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O.K. fellows here is that crazy Osage stave that I have been showing you and I am going to see if we can get a bow out of it. I have had this for a couple of years now and it is time to either work on it or let somebody else give it a go. It is 58" long and fairly straight. It is very clean without even a pin knot showing so far. It does have problems in one limb with several vertical cracks showing. We Will have to see if I can remove them as we go along. It may just end up as a walking stick.
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i cant wait to see how this works out, good luck.
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Tear it up Dean-o!
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Here are the main tools I will use with farriers rasp and the Nicholson 49 getting the biggest work out of all that you see. I was thinking around 1-1/2" wide to midlimb then taper down to narrow tips. But like I said these nasty cracks will tell us what we can and can't do. Now I want everybody to chime in on this to see if we can get a bow out of it.
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Oh man, I can't wait to see this one! That's an amazing piece of wood. It should make a beautiful bow!
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The first thing I am going to do is to clean up the back by removing the sapwood. I have removed most of it early and with the good ring ratio I will use the first ring under the sapwood. I want to tell you guys out there if you ever get a hold of one like this you make sure you pull the drawknife following the grain on the back. With this snakey grain you can be working your draw knife the wrong way real easy. Look close and follow the grain.
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Bend her in the handle dean ;)
If she's too much for ya,send her my way along with those yew billets,and thanks for shaping the rounds for the sleeves for me already >:D
If you need to make a string tracking adjustment(hard to know for sure till u get a string on a snakey stave) id do it at the handle there and gently go with that snakey curve direction wise if ya know what I mean. It looks like the best area to make that adjustment if needed. Only minimal movement required heat bending wise in a handle area is required to get the string on that handle. But we won't know till you get a string in her...those snakes could propeller it one way or another when bent.
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Another idea with the string is you could make it asymmetrical(shorter lower limb) and your string will be perfect either way of center you go.
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blackhawk sounds good but it is 58" long as the crow flies. When we get the center line laid out on it I will put a string on the line on each limb and see actually how much wood there really is in each limb. That will be interesting to see. There will be a-lot of adjusting when it comes to the handle for sure. I was thinking a slightly bendy handle also. Dean
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Its def one of those staves you only worry about the step your on...and when its time to go to the next you stop and think of every possible route,then sleep on it and wake up the next day and make a best decision. And even then ya might have to sleep on it again another night or two before making the next move. Lol.
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Now with the back chased to the ring I will mark the center of the stave and connect the dots. Then I will use my piece of wood which is cut to 1-1/2" wide marked in the center to get my desired width down the stave. Then I will connect the dots again. And remove the wood with my big rasp to the lines. Now remember when you are removeing wood from the sides alway work from the back of the bow to the belly. You could damage the back going from belly to back with a rasp. More tomorrow.
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Its def one of those staves you only worry about the step your on...and when its time to go to the next you stop and think of every possible route,then sleep on it and wake up the next day and make a best decision. And even then ya might have to sleep on it again another night or two before making the next move. Lol.
I dont do well at those types, but something tells me Dean is much more patient than I. I bet he gets a bow from it, and a fine one at that.
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That is the coolest thing I've seen in a while. How did it grow like that?
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Marks
I traded a bow to a young man for some Osage logs and one evening he pulled in my driveway with 4 huge Osage logs in the back of his truck. They were so big I had to use a tractor loader to get them out. 2 of the logs were worthless and the log this came from was fairly straight but had the wildest bark on it I ever seen on a Osage log. I told my wife if I can get this split it will be some real snakes in it. I destroyed most of the log trying to split it. It wouldn't split right. It always wanted to run off to the side because of such twisted grain. Worst thing I ever tied into trying to split.
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I did a little more work this morning on the checked limb and removed the bad crack on the tip with no problem.Tapered the limb down a little from midlimb. Thought we were good to go and had some more cracks show up about midlimb after removing some belly wood. The top crack I believe I still have enough wood to remove it. But the edge crack has got me a little puzzled. It runs down to edge of the stave and I can see it on the edge of the back. It is still wide enough 1-1/4" from the crack on the back to the other side of the bow. My maim concern is will it angle up towards the belly to much. Tell me what you would do. This piece of wood kind of reminds me when I was raising my children. You always had one you could get a nice comfortable sleep every night and one you always had to sleep with one eye open. Dang this one limb.
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I can't say I have a lot of experience with cracks like that but my guess is that the position of it on the edge of that turn is going to give you some problems if it's not taken care of. My worry if you try to remove it would be where the crack leads in the bow limb. If you pulled the crack off would it pop off the limb or continue into it?
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After sleeping on it again I am going to to take it down on the back to the edge crack and see what we have. If it stops there and the belly crack is seperate we will try and use some thin super glue on it. Dean
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Ouch! Cracks like that will put a damper on your day. Hope you are able to save that limb. :o
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I went ahead and worked on the edge crack this morning and completely removed it. But my limb there is only 1-1/8" wide at that spot. It is a little above midlimb. It is going to make it a slow taper to the tips now. I am going to narrow the the bow from the fades to 1-3/8" wide and have it taper from the fades to the tips now because of that crack. I went ahead today and narrowed the tip on the other limb and tapered it as close as I could to the the other limb and will take some more belly wood off of it getting it as close in thickness and width. I will get it to floor tillering then we are going to have to get the heat gun and do some correcting. I do have a form but with all the wiggles in it I am going to have to figure out another way to try and get these limbs half way even.
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Here is what I have to work with when it is time to straighten. One limb is slightly reflexed then the stave takes a big dip right in the handle area going towards the right limb. Open to any bodies ideas on how and where to start on this thing.
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If you have a nice even floor tiller that's not too crazy stiff you can use a flat workbench,or two by four as long as its close to being flat and true,and put the back of the handle down onto a 2-3" block(however much reflex you want) ,then clamp it down at each tip. If its tillered even it'll flex even when clamped down and will induce an even reflex. That's what I do with staves like that that won't fit well over a form. Sometimes you might have to put a shim in a deflexed area that needs a lil push in the right direction. I've also done this to just correct one limb so it'll match the other. Just get it looking good before you set the heat to her. Understand? I can take a pic and post it of what I mean if need be.
I think removing that crack was a good idea....this is one of those staves its hard to give advice to..you can take as many pics as you want,but id really need to see it and "feel" it in person to really give any advice that has any worth to it.
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blackhawk
Posting your picture would be great. Like I said before I would like every ones ideas on how to get this to a finished bow. Dean
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Ill out one up with some more explanation after work today dean.
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Today I removed the wood from the belly of both limbs to get them to start bending. The one limb has several dips in it which made it slow going as far as removing the wood. I put marks on top of and the sides of the limb where it would ridge up to make sure that I didn't remove to much compared to the valleys. Also I used my caliper's up and down the limb to try to get as even wood removal that I could. I would give the limb three or four passes with the big rasp then clean it up with the scraper and run the caliper down the limb to see if I was removing to much or not enough of the belly wood. I would then take the bow and push down on the limb "Floor Tiller" and repeat the process until I got it to bending Like I wanted. Tomorrow will will try and get the limbs straightened and work on the handle
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heres what I was mentioning dean on how to match the one limb a lil better and closer to the other one....I would just try to get the tip close to the same where the other tip is in the limb and leave most of the dips...I wouldn't try to correct those dips or even put too much heat to em cus they have a tendency to wanna check or crack there if you try and put to much heat to em or try to force them to move and straightening them out.
if I cant use a form this is what ill do...just a 2x4 with a chalk line snapped down it. you can even move string tracking some if its only a little ways off by using your chalk line as a guide. heres a mock setup with a stave from the side on two 2x4's to give it 3" reflex and leather placed under so as not to ding the back. you can see the left limb needs a lil "push" to match the right. this is a floor tillered blank on it.
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2013-01-11_16-00-56_522.jpg)
and heres where I put a shim in it to get the left limb matched up to the right
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2013-01-11_16-02-37_939.jpg)
heres a closer view of the shimed area and that limb,and notice the chalkline
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2013-01-11_16-02-56_878.jpg)
and heres a view from the long ways,and you can see that the handle and both tips are aligned on center
(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x436/blackhawk28/2013-01-11_16-03-29_323.jpg)
if this doesn't help you maybe itll help someone else who sees this
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Thanks, Blackhawk. That refines a technique I have used in the past.
Atta boy, Dean-o. Take your time with this stave, we are all out here cheering for you!
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Hip hip hooray!!! ;D
Looking very nice ....what a piece of heavenly goodness you have there... or not so heavenly >:D >:D >:D ;)
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blackhawk thank you for the pics. I can do that and the pics are the only way to go when you are trying to explain it. I am going to work on the handle today which I normally do when I am about finished with the bow. The reason for waiting is you may have to do a little tweeking here in there for the string and a nice fit for your hands. But in this case I will have to do some heating and the less wood there is in it the better the out come. I wanted a stiff handled bow but I would probably better off with a bendy or partial bendy handled bow. I marked the center with a 4" handle and 2" fades. I am not happy where the fades ended up as they are real close to the wild curves in this stave. One side looking at the handle looks fine but the other side really has a couple of humps where the fades would be if I went with a stiff handle. I got to ask a question here. I haven't done a hole lot of bendy handle bows. Do I still narrow the handle and taper for some kind of fade or just take the wood off of the top until it starts to bend. Here is a pic of the stave floor tillered.
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You are the man Dean-O. That is one of the coolest snake shapes Ive seen. It appears to be strudy to. Tillering is going to take 3 mirrors, a spotlight, an eye patch and three helpers!
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Pearl you got that right. I am a strong believer in Eric's Gizzmo but it will not work here on this thing.
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I grab a 4-6" long straight edge of anything when I need tiller help. A piece of board, a pencil or even a sanding blocks edge will work. Just something you can use to see that center gap change and indicate stiff or weak. That bow will deserve the most expensive skins you can buy!
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how wide is it at the handle dean? you can narrow it some with a bendy handle bow...just make it a nice smooth n subtle transition,and make sure everything is all rounded and sanded smooth before serious bending.
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The bow was 1-3/8" wide at the handle so I went ahead and took it down to about 1-1/8" wide and just around 1" tall. Didn't get a allot done today. I went and watched my 7 year old grandson play basketball. Amazing how 6 and 7 year olds put there heart into playing. I just watched the Fighting Illini get hammered by Wisconsin. They need a little more heart in what they are doing looked like to me. I took my tape measure and measured every inch on both limbs and marked it with a pencil and tonight while I am watching T.V. I will take the calipers again and measure the thickness and width on both limbs to try and get them fairly evened up before I start pulling on it. It is still quite hard to push by floor tillering so I still have a little more to take of where it needs it.
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I am going to do a little more work today on the bow and what I have done is run a chalk line down the bow and I am quite happy how the tips line up without using any heat. If I can I will try and use the least amount of heat that I can because of all the twist and curves to deal with. The handle area the string is not completely straight down the handle because of the curve. when I hold the bow with curve bending to the right I think it will work fine with the tracking of the string. When I flip it with the curve running to the left it doesn't feel well in my hand because of the severe curve in the handle. As far as heating in some reflex in the limbs I am going to leave it alone for now. It isn't to bad the way it is. The big curve in the lower limb is deflexed with quite a bit of twist and I really reluctant to try and heat it up and remove the twist and deflex. The grain is so twisted there I believe I would be asking for trouble. It may come to some heat but no need to do anything with it until the time comes. I took my card scraper and sander and rounded the edges just a little. You should take the sharp edges off which will help in not raising a splinter. I am going to cut some string grooves in the tips and get it ready for the string. My shop is not heated and it is supposed to get up to 25 degrees here today so I will work just a little on it and go back in the house to warm up.
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I am sad to say looks like the buildalong has come to an end. I went ahead and cut my string grooves in the bow and put a long string on it and just pulled it a little ways and she gave out right at the start. Had very little stress at all on the limb and she snapped. No warning just plain broke. I was surprised it was this limb. I always thought it would be the other limb with the big curve in it where all those vertical checks were. I had the edges all sanded down but looks like it quit on one of the curves and humps in the bow. This was a strange piece of Osage as far as floor tillering goes. Couldn't get it to bend for some reason. The limbs I had thinned down way more than usual. First piece of Osage that I have broken in a long time. Got a crooked mushroom stick though. Dean
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thats a real shame it would of been a great looking bow.
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You missed a drastic turn in the grain Dean-o. Maybe next time.
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Pearl I followed the grain on the back when I layed it out as close as my eyes would let me. I really don't care if I work on another one like this. I will stick with fairly straight grained wood if I can get it. Dean
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one of the bows i like shooting the most is a 38inch osage D selfbow.
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Pearl I followed the grain on the back when I layed it out as close as my eyes would let me. I really don't care if I work on another one like this. I will stick with fairly straight grained wood if I can get it. Dean
I agree with you there. The ugly ones are fun for a change, but the "straight" osage staves are better. Snip that bugger off and go at it again!
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My grandson has his eyes on it already.
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Darn...yeah..snip it off and go at it again....that's the gamble we take with character wood...I've had sharp snakey kinks let go as well...my theory is the bend in a bow wants to follow a straight line...like the marks with your chalk line...and when the wood sharply turns and deviates from this course it wants to be on,it ends up fighting it and sometimes they break.
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Sad to see it didn't work out. Unfortunately it seems like the swirly grain that makes pieces like that so beautiful also presents a great weakness. Still a great learning experience for working with snakey staves.
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:'( :-\ :'( that's a real bummer man